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nikopolidis

Josh Smith?

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You guys need to quit quoting him. The 'ignore' feature doesn't filter it out. And he obviously says this stuff to get a rise out of you. He can't possibly be that deluded.
That, along with the fact that often he posts 5 or 6 times in a row, is why I took him off ignore...might as well know what I'm missing...it's painful though...come the regular season when the forum's more active back he'll go.

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That, along with the fact that often he posts 5 or 6 times in a row, is why I took him off ignore...might as well know what I'm missing...it's painful though...come the regular season when the forum's more active back he'll go.

Only one team, the Grizzlies, has any real cap room. But it appears that the team isn't going to use it to pry away a restricted free agent. So ... restricted free agents have three options.

1. They can take the one year qualifying offer and become unrestricted free agents next summer.

2. They can sign for a "market value" deal that is probably far less money than they think they're worth.

3. They can push for a sign-and-trade to another team.

All three options are pretty unappealing at this point. Option one puts a lot of pressure and risk on the free agent. Option two would mean that players like Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng and Emeka Okafor sign for less money than the extensions they turned down last summer. Option three is tricky because of league trade rules that make most restricted free agents base year compensation players (which means their salaries are very difficult to trade).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FreeAgents-080629

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Amir for sure and maybe even Maxiell are better than Smith by themselves.

...and it's stuff like this that make you come off as a homer who has no idea of what he's talking about. Tell me this was a joke. It was, right?

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Here are Smith's shooting stats from last year

From under the basket

-----------------------

FGA 646

FGM 351

FG% 59%

From every place on the court except under the basket

------------------------------------------------------------------------

FGA 485

FGM 137

FG % 28% (Pretty horrible. No way he can play SF)

Total

-----------

FGA 1,131 (2 shot discrepancy with BasketballReference.com)

FGM 518

FG% 46%

Free Throws

--------------

FTA 469

FTM 333

FT % 71%

Rebounding Rates 2007-08 Smith 13.5%, Maxiell 14.6%, McDyess 17.4%, Johnson 18.4%.

So what do we see. Josh Smith can't shoot so he can't play SF and he he can't rebound very well for a PF.

We may still trade for him, but in my opinion it would be a big mistake. I would rather have Maxiell than Smith and Amir for sure rather than Smith especially when you take defensive stats into account.

Smith is way over rated because he is a great ESPN highlight film but the numbers do not support him being a any more than a mediocre rebounding PF.

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03.html

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Here are Smith's shooting stats from last year

From under the basket

-----------------------

FGA 646

FGM 351

FG% 59%

From every place on the court except under the basket

------------------------------------------------------------------------

FGA 485

FGM 137

FG % 28% (Pretty horrible. No way he can play SF)

Total

-----------

FGA 1,131 (2 shot discrepancy with BasketballReference.com)

FGM 518

FG% 46%

Free Throws

--------------

FTA 469

FTM 333

FT % 71%

Rebounding Rates 2007-08 Smith 13.5%, Maxiell 14.6%, McDyess 17.4%, Johnson 18.4%.

So what do we see. Josh Smith can't shoot so he can't play SF and he he can't rebound very well for a PF.

We may still trade for him, but in my opinion it would be a big mistake. I would rather have Maxiell than Smith and Amir for sure rather than Smith especially when you take defensive stats into account.

Smith is way over rated because he is a great ESPN highlight film but the numbers do not support him being a any more than a mediocre rebounding PF.

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03.html

How come you never respond to poster's legitimate questions of your use of statistics?

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Maxiell by comparison

Under the basket

—————–

FGA 250

FGM 157

FG% 63%

From every place else except under the basket

———————————————-

FGA 195

FGM 83

FG% 43%

Totals

———–

FGA 445

FGM 240

FG% 54%

So what we see is that Maxiell is not only a better rebounder than Smith but he is a better shooter from everywhere on the court!!!

Why pay $10 million plus a year for Smith when we have Maxiell who makes a $2 or million a year and is a better shooter and better rebounder. I would call their defense about equal.

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

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Amir for sure and maybe even Maxiell are better than Smith by themselves.

How well does Amir shoot from outside the paint?

And you know Amir and Maxiell have inflated %s from playing limited minutes, right? ...

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How come you never respond to poster's legitimate questions of your use of statistics?

I'd like an answer to this.

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You say Smith cant play SF because he is such a bad shooter. Yet, he shot a better % then Prince did last year.

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Maxiell by comparison

Under the basket

—————–

FGA 250

FGM 157

FG% 63%

From every place else except under the basket

———————————————-

FGA 195

FGM 83

FG% 43%

Totals

———–

FGA 445

FGM 240

FG% 54%

So what we see is that Maxiell is not only a better rebounder than Smith but he is a better shooter from everywhere on the court!!!

Why pay $10 million plus a year for Smith when we have Maxiell who makes a $2 or million a year and is a better shooter and better rebounder. I would call their defense about equal.

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

First off, pros on the Hotspots site. I've never seen that before and its great!

Amir Johnson

Under the basket

—————–

FGA 139

FGM 87

FG% 62.6%

From every place else except under the basket

———————————————-

FGA 26

FGM 5

FG% 19.2%

Totals

———–

FGA 445

FGM 240

FG% 55.8%

All season, Amir made 5 shots that weren't dunks, layups, or tip ins, yet earlier you went on and on about his offensive efficiency ratings... Also, Josh Smith beat Amir in PER (at stat I've seen you quote as well) last season.

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At this moment in time, saying that Amir Johnson is better than Josh Smith is just asinine.

I'm not saying he can't be as good. In fact, I think Amir is gonna be a good player. But if the Pistons could get Josh Smith for Amir, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

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Josh Smith is pretty good, but I think this rumor is cooling out, too bad, it could have changed the Pistons from a team on the downslope, to a team on the rise. Josh Smith/Rodney Stuckey would have been a good start to a future foundation.

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First off, pros on the Hotspots site. I've never seen that before and its great!

Amir Johnson

Under the basket

—————–

FGA 139

FGM 87

FG% 62.6%

From every place else except under the basket

———————————————-

FGA 26

FGM 5

FG% 19.2%

Totals

———–

FGA 445

FGM 240

FG% 55.8%

All season, Amir made 5 shots that weren't dunks, layups, or tip ins, yet earlier you went on and on about his offensive efficiency ratings... Also, Josh Smith beat Amir in PER (at stat I've seen you quote as well) last season.

Amir is not a SF. He doesn't have to shoot from the outside. Talk about warping the point.

My point is that Smith is not a SF and neither is Amir. They are both PF and who shot better from around the basket which is where a PF does most of his work?

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First off, pros on the Hotspots site. I've never seen that before and its great!

Amir Johnson

Under the basket

—————–

FGA 139

FGM 87

FG% 62.6%

From every place else except under the basket

———————————————-

FGA 26

FGM 5

FG% 19.2%

Totals

———–

FGA 445

FGM 240

FG% 55.8%

All season, Amir made 5 shots that weren't dunks, layups, or tip ins, yet earlier you went on and on about his offensive efficiency ratings... Also, Josh Smith beat Amir in PER (at stat I've seen you quote as well) last season.

Yes, but is Josh Smith from LA?

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At this moment in time, saying that Amir Johnson is better than Josh Smith is just asinine.

I'm not saying he can't be as good. In fact, I think Amir is gonna be a good player. But if the Pistons could get Josh Smith for Amir, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Another distortion of what I posted.

I said that Maxiell is a better shooter and rebounder than Smith. True or False- True. So what I said is that if we have Maxiell at the PF why do we need Smith? We don't

I also said that Smith is not a SF and he isn't.

As far as Amir goes I was just pointing out that as a PF Amir:

Is Amir a better rebounder than Smith? - True

Is Amir a better defender than Smith - True

Is Amir a more efficient shooter than Smith True

So both Maxiell and Amir are better PF's than Smith and Smith is not a SF.

Why don't you compare Prince's shooting from outside the basket area with Smith's? I didn't bother because it is no contest without even looking it up.

Smith is not a SF period and we already have PF who are better than Smith at that position.

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If it were possible (it's not, due to the cap restrictions) I'd trade Prince and Amir for Josh Smith in a heartbeat. The paperwork would be at the league office before the ink was dry.

And I'm not even a huge Josh Smith fan.

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Josh Smith/Rodney Stuckey would have been a good start to a future foundation.

Can you imagine some of the alley-oops and put-back dunks...WOW. Those would be some fun highlight reels for sure.

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Maxiell is very athletic and he doesn't even touch Josh Smith. Josh Smith is a freak.

Fine if you want a freak show than trade for Smith.

Maybe Smith belongs in a circus?

If you want to win than play Maxiell

maxiell1024x768.jpg

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Fine if you want a freak show than trade for Smith.

Maybe Smith belongs in a circus?

If you want to win than play Maxiell

maxiell1024x768.jpg

Josh Smith is a much, much better player than Maxiell and I am a huge Maxiell fan. If you can't see that, then your homer-level just went up a whole bunch.

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I won't even discuss Smith comparisons with Amir/Max. Smith is no doubt better than Max and for Amir, we can only hope he's as good as Smith is.

As bleak as reports seem, really, ATL is not really in a position of power here. Detroit STILL seems to have the best to offer, as every other potential deal just makes less than zero sense (Odom? Really?). They can take what we offer, they can resign Smith (with the track record of the ASG, seems unlikely), or they can let him walk for zilch.

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Amir is not a SF. He doesn't have to shoot from the outside. Talk about warping the point.

My point is that Smith is not a SF and neither is Amir. They are both PF and who shot better from around the basket which is where a PF does most of his work?

When did I ever say Smith was a SF? Regardless, a frontline of Josh Smith, Sheed, and Dice would fare very well. Sheed plays outside and takes the shots of a typical SF. Dice plays a more mid-range game. And Smith scores in the post, something the Pistons badly need, and has the athletic ability to guard SFs.

As far as Amir goes I was just pointing out that as a PF Amir:

Is Amir a better rebounder than Smith? - True

This actually is true.

Is Amir a better defender than Smith - True

FALSE. Last season while spending time at PF, Smith's opponents averaged fewer than 20 points per 48 minutes. Amir gave up over 23 pts/48 min (generally against other teams' 2nd and 3rd string guys). Smith also finished 2nd in the league in total blocks the last 3 years. Amir could be a good defender, but foul trouble limits him.

Is Amir a more efficient shooter than Smith True

FALSE. According to 82games.com, Smith has an adjusted eFG% of .618 while Amir comes in at .611 (again usually not against the other team's starting PF). This with Smith being keyed on much more as his team's #2 scoring option. Smith also has a higher Roland Rating (4.9 vs 4.2). The only possible way to consider Amir a more efficient shooter than Smith, would be to discount the fact that Amir takes so few shots and shoots the overwhelming majority of the time from under the basket (tips, dunks, and "garbage points").

(A note on Roland Ratings, according to 82games:

"This rating isn't an absolute measure of a player's ability, but it does represent how successful a player is with a given team. In general the player with the best Roland Rating on a team is the difference maker (exclude the guys who play a statistically insignificant number of minutes)."

82games considers 35% of team minutes to be enough to qualify, which comes out to slightly under 1400 minutes in a season, or about 14 MPG. Amir played 763 total minutes last year.

Finally, Smith has a PER +2.0 over opposing PF, while Amir has a PER -3.7 lower than opposing PF.

Josh Smith

Amir Johnson

Roland Ratings

Ratings Explanation

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Fine if you want a freak show than trade for Smith.

Maybe Smith belongs in a circus?

If you want to win than play Maxiell

This is a pretty stupid argument.

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