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MAROTH4MVP, June 5, 2008 in Detroit Red Wings
I think Zetterberg is a great player, but I don't think he's even close to Fedorov at his peak. I really do believe for about 3 or 4 years that Fedorov was the best player in the whole world.
He was always a bit flaky and aloof.....maybe it was a language thing, maybe just the way he is......
I think Zetterberg is a great player, but I don't think he's even close to Fedorov at his peak. I really do believe for about 3 or 4 years that Fedorov was the best player in the whole world. He was always a bit flaky and aloof.....maybe it was a language thing, maybe just the way he is......
I would agree. He was something else, on and off the ice. He's the fastest skater I've ever seen, worked hard, and could finish with the best of them.
I would go with Zetterberg. Fedorov was an amazing player and probably had more raw skill, but Zetterberg is a more consistent player, and his intangibles give him the edge.
Here are Fedorov's point totals his last 5 years in Detroit: 63, 62, 69, 68, 83.
He had two great years where he was an absolute dominant player, but in other years he was merely a very good 2-way forward. I'm not saying he wasn't special, I'm merely pointing out this vision of him as the best player in the world for a 3 to 4 year period is slightly skewed.
I also point out that while Fedorov was a consistently good playoff performer, he never won the Con Smythe as Zetterberg did. I guess the argument for Fedorov here would be that Zetterberg never won the Hart, but I personally believe the Con Smythe is more impressive.
Finally, I have to take into account the "off-the-ice" qualities. While Fedorov was by no means a "Sean Avery distraction", he certainly had his moments (holdouts, complaining about ice time, Dad complaining). Zetterberg on the other hand is so well respected, it is widely anticipated that he's going to be the next captain.
All-in-all, they're two great players, but if I were drafting and had to pick between an "in-their prime" Fedorov or Zetterberg, I'm taking Zetterberg.
I think the Hart trophy is more impressive than the Conn Smythe, if not much more. Basically, one has to be the best player on the Cup winning team to win the Conn Smythe (somewhat oversimplified, but pretty much true), so a relatively small percentage of players have a shot at it in a given year. Not only that, The Hart requires great play for six months, the Smythe two.
And before I get the 'but the two months the Conn Smythe is evaluated on are the ones that count' argument, I'd like to defuse that by saying what team you are on goes a long, long way to determining the liklihood of a player even being considered for the Smythe. In other words, the Hart captures individual excellence better than the Smythe, IMO. If Zetterberg were a Capital, he would not have a Conn Smythe right now - I am 100% convinced of this. If Ovechkin were a Red Wing perhaps he would have a Smythe, perhaps not, we just don't know. So which is more impressive - Ovechkin's Hart or Zetterberg's Smythe?
As to the Fedorov / Zetterberg debate - I'll duck the question a bit and answer this way - Fedorov at his peak was better, but, I suspect Zetterberg will have more great seasons when it is all said and done, and if so, in the final analysis I probably will go with Zetterberg. Based on quality of play through age 27, Fedorov is ahead.
Guys, Franzen isn't a superstar yet, at this point if he commanded Datsyuk money Kenny would laugh at him. I don't think Franzen's deal is too big a factor, at least yet. If he goes out and scores 30-35 goals next season then maybe, but as of now I'm not penciling him in for 5 million.
Right, next season is a big one for Franzen. He could just be Martin Lapointe.
I don't think anyone said he's going to get Datsyuk money! Rather, his cap number is currently around 900k, and even if he doesn't repeat this year's offensive numbers, his cap number is going to rise.
If Franzen signed right now, He would be inline for a similair deal to Dan Cleary. Cleary is signed for right around $3 million per season ($2.8 million cap hit). That's not Datsyuk money, but it does eat up $2 more million of cap space.
I know, but it seems people are branding him the next superstar.
Sorry, Darko but the Wings don't win the cup in 1997, 1998 or 2002 without Fedorov. Especially 1998, his defense was incredible in that series. See, he could have scored 120 points......but Scotty stressed defense from all of his forwards, including Yzerman and Fedorov. He sacrificed his game and certain Hart Trophies to win the Stanley Cup. I don't understand the bitterness and hate pointed at Fedorov in this town. Sure, he left badly (he wanted to be out of Stevie's shadow), but he was one hell of an exciting player and he should have his number retired by the Wings.
See, he could have scored 120 points......but Scotty stressed defense from all of his forwards, including Yzerman and Fedorov. He sacrificed his game and certain Hart Trophies to win the Stanley Cup.
I don't understand the bitterness and hate pointed at Fedorov in this town. Sure, he left badly (he wanted to be out of Stevie's shadow), but he was one hell of an exciting player and he should have his number retired by the Wings.
No doubt, Federov at 50% effort was still better than 99% of the NHL. My issue with him was that he had the talent to be one of the greatest of all time. He could have been considered in the same league as Super Mario and Wayne Gretzky and a shoe-in hall of famer. Instead he is more in line with Temu Selanees (spelling?) of the world, a mid tier HOFer.
I remember when Fedorov came back from that contract hold out in 98. The offer sheet that he signed with Carolina (or was it still Hartford back then?) stipulated that he would get a huge bonus if his team made it to the conference finals. In those first two rounds, Fedorov played at 100% and was AMAZING. He played the best I've ever saw him play. If he could have put that kind of effort up everyday, we would be having arguments about if Fedorov was the greatest of all time. In his prime, #91 was by far the single most talented player to lace up skates in the league. It was too bad all that talent was partially wasted.
Instead he is more in line with Temu Selanees (spelling?) of the world, a mid tier HOFer.
I find this to be an odd thing to complain about. Fedorov is clearly one of the best Red Wings in NHL history, even if he didn't live up to his potential. Plus I don't think Fedorov is HOF material, albeit he is borderline.
Amazing, just amazing. He absolutely lived up to his potential and then some. He was asked to completely change his game to a defensive one and he was brilliant. Ask any top lines from the Wings competitors in his prime, he shut them down. He may have complained about it, but he delivered too. If Federov has asked to be shipped to an offensive team he would have has 120 points every single year, but probably no Stanley Cup. He did the opposite. Look how Yzerman's point totals dropped after 1995.....for the same reason, I don't hear anyone knocking him at all.
No doubt, Federov at 50% effort was still better than 99% of the NHL. My issue with him was that he had the talent to be one of the greatest of all time. He could have been considered in the same league as Super Mario and Wayne Gretzky and a shoe-in hall of famer. Instead he is more in line with Temu Selanees (spelling?) of the world, a mid tier HOFer. I remember when Fedorov came back from that contract hold out in 98. The offer sheet that he signed with Carolina (or was it still Hartford back then?) stipulated that he would get a huge bonus if his team made it to the conference finals. In those first two rounds, Fedorov played at 100% and was AMAZING. He played the best I've ever saw him play. If he could have put that kind of effort up everyday, we would be having arguments about if Fedorov was the greatest of all time. In his prime, #91 was by far the single most talented player to lace up skates in the league. It was too bad all that talent was partially wasted.
Presuming what you write is true (I would dispute it), so what? Are you upset the Wings did not win more cups with him? How many more cups would have validated his worth to you?
Fedorov got the label of being a slacker / not giving it 100% of the time, and that label persists today. And maybe it is fair. And that is a label that he will have to live with. I guess I don't understand why you would have an *issue* with him. Does he owe you something?
I think it's striking how three players Fedorov, Bure and Mogilny were similarly portrayed by the media. Seems that Russians of that age didn't suffer fools gladly and often teased or were coy with the media. Not unlike Mario Lemieux, who was similarly labeled as aloof or a sometime-floater. The behaviour of all four drove the media nuts and didn't make them any friends with the media. Whereas the media more easily overlook how someone like Joe Thornton - who looks and speaks the part of a player with 'heart' - often has disappeared come playoff time.
Back to some offseason rumors talk....
From what I've read on other boards, Brad Stuart's wife apparently has children from another marriage, which she cannot move from California without custody issues.
If this is indeed the case, I can see why Stuart wanted to sign with a team in California last year, and I believe it will be a stumbling block for the Wings to re-sign him this year as well.
Sundin would be the ideal choice as a one year rental. That way we have the money next year to re-sign Franzen.
Gotta get Stuart under contract. He was big in the finals. He plays a stay at home game but picks his spots well and can put up some offensive numbers. He was a perfect compliment to Kronwall.
Im worried about Filpula. He had a great second season and playoffs and is just the kind of guy a team may try to lure away from the Wings with a big offer. Signing Leino, if nothing else, may help keep Filpula in Detroit.
Give Hank the farm. Gotta do it, he is the best player in the world. No disrespect to Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin but Hanks two way play moves him to the top of the heap, for now, anyway.
Id love to see Rolston in Detroit. He would fit this system perfectly. A good two way player with a big shot. A second line of Flip, Rolston and Franzen would be as good as any in the NHL. Lots of grit, good speed and three guys who all can put the puck in the back of the net.
This offseason is setting up to be one of the best ever in Detroit. Hollands management of the cap has been beyond brilliant. Hands down, hes the best GM in all of sports. So many options. This team isnt the team of the present, its the team of the present and future.
Which leads to the friendly debate I had with family members a week ago. Who was a better all-around player: Fedorov at his peak or Zetterberg this year? I still give a slight nod to Fedorov at his peak, but Zetterberg conceivably could get even better the next couple of years.
Sergei had more offensive potential. Hank is the more consistent back checker. I like Hanks game more but any opinion here is purely subjective. Which one I would put on my team first would be due mostly to what I had in place already.
Henrik Zetterberg: Don't expect Mats Sundin
Could Mats Sundin be a Red Wing? That's the hot topic in NHL free-agent circles. The Toronto Maple Leafs would like to re-sign their star forward, but many think Sundin, an unrestricted free agent, would be a perfect fit with the Swedish-dominated Red Wings.
Wings defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom would love to see Sundin in Detroit. But Henrik Zetterberg told the Toronto Sun: "My gut says he'll be back with the Leafs."
The 37-year-old Sundin made headlines May 28 during a presentation at the Stanley Cup final in Detroit when he suggested for the first time that the Maple Leafs weren't his only option going forward.
Sundin, who earned $5.5 million last season, led the Leafs in goals (32), assists (46) and points (78) last season.
Deal for Chelios not set just yet
Holland wants to have one more talk with defenseman, 46, about his role next season.
Ted Kulfan / The Detroit News
DETROIT -- Chris Chelios thinks otherwise, but there's no deal yet between him and the Red Wings.
Chelios told radio station WDFN 1130 on the "Stoney and Wojo" show last week he'd basically agreed in priniciple to a new one-year contract.
But general manager Ken Holland said Monday he wants to talk with Chelios once more about the veteran defenseman's role for next season.
"I'm open to bringing Cheli back, but we need to have a real heart-to-heart talk here in the next week, or two, and talk about where we're headed," Holland said.
What Holland and Chelios have to discuss is whether Chelios, 46, is comfortable in being a seventh or eighth defenseman.
The Wings could have as many as 10 NHL caliber-defensemen in camp if unrestricted free agents Chelios, Brad Stuart and Andreas Lilja return.
Young defensemen Kyle Quincey (no more minor league options remaining) and Jonathan Ericsson, who impressed in a brief stretch with the Wings, appear ready for the NHL.
But Holland believes there's a role for Chelios.
"He definitely adds something to our team,"Holland said. "He's Chris Chelios. We had a brief discussion last week, and he would fit into our (salary-cap scale). But we need to have a real heart-to-heart, and I want to know what he's thinking."
Chelios had arthroscopic surgery on his left knee Thursday but is expected to begin training by the end of this month.
When talking Friday with hosts Bob Wojnowski and Mike Stone, Chelios said he would be willing to except any role.
"I'm very content with my role and the way things are going, and especially having the year like we did this year and finishing it off like we did," Chelios said.
Chelios also described a much closer gap between the Wings and himself.
"We are all on the same page, and I've agreed with Kenny, I talked with him, I believe, it was Tuesday, and it's just a matter of signing on the dotted line," Chelios told the radio station.
"Money's never been an issue with me, obviously, over the last few years.
"I guess it's safe to assume that I will be a Detroit Red Wing next year, and I can't be happier about it."
Holland said he'll discuss contract issues with the agents for Stuart and Lilja at the entry draft this weekend in Ottawa.
It's Hall of Fame day
Former Red Wings forward Igor Larionov is among a group of players by the phone waiting this afternoon.
The selection committee for the Hall of Fame announces its newest members today with Larinov, Doug Gilmour , Glenn Anderson , Adam Oates , Guy Carbonneau and Pavel Bure among the leading contenders. maximum of four players are allowed induction in any year.
Larinov just missed qualifying last year.
Looks like the Pens are making a run for Hossa after all. Reportedly have offered him $50mm over 7 years. That would raise a whole host of cast issues for them a year or two from now, but guess they'll deal with that later.
I guess that is the big difference between a poorly run organization and a solid one like the wings. You never see them throw money at someone simply to make a cup run and not think about the future. I just don't see how this organization won't succeed with Holland running the show.
They are mortgaging the future for another shot at Stanley soon. Its a terrible, terrible decision. I'm glad I'm not a Pens fan.
The Pens front office probably figures its gonna lose either Hossa or Malkin and would rather take the chance with Hossa. They know theres no way they can pay even close to market value for Crosby, Staal, Malkin, Hossa and Fluery in the next couple years. So they must prioritize, balance between performance and value. Malkin will bring them a nicer return because of his age but Hossa is the proven performer over the long term. Id look to see Malkin traded before his contracts up.
They must re-sign Stuart and their RFAs. They cannot let these young guys get away.
After that, first on my personal wish list is Brian Rolston. He would be a 1st line center on 2/3 of the league's teams. As the Wings 2nd line center, he would be a monster.
Next is Mats Sundin. Mainly because I wanna see him win a Cup and I'd like to see a few of his trademark backhand snipes in a Wings jersey.
I agree with the sentiment that Ken Holland is one of the best GMs in all of professional sports and I trust that whatever he does. I love how Wings fans can count on good teams for years to come because he always takes care of the players that came through the system.
They must re-sign Stuart and their RFAs. They cannot let these young guys get away.After that, first on my personal wish list is Brian Rolston. He would be a 1st line center on 2/3 of the league's teams. As the Wings 2nd line center, he would be a monster.Next is Mats Sundin. Mainly because I wanna see him win a Cup and I'd like to see a few of his trademark backhand snipes in a Wings jersey.I agree with the sentiment that Ken Holland is one of the best GMs in all of professional sports and I trust that whatever he does. I love how Wings fans can count on good teams for years to come because he always takes care of the players that came through the system.
I don't see Stuart back with the Wings next season. Holland has come out and said that he won't pay him more than Kronwall (who makes 4 million) which would require Stewie to take a fairly significant paycut judging by what he'd get on the open market.
I absolutely agree with you on Rolston and Sundin though. I would love to have either one of them.
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