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Deleterious

2008 Offseason Speculation/Rumors/Ideas

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Too bad the NBA wouldn't allow the Pistons to make a deal like they allowed the Lakers. Gasol for nothing. Just think of this, NBA commissioner Dave McMahon approves deal sending Dwight Howard to Detroit for a case of Stroh's !!

LMFAO!! Best thing I've heard all week.

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Here is a question for all:

Is Jermaine O'Neal just too banged up to take a flyer on? I read somewhere that the Pacers were hoping to give him away for an expiring contract and were willing to throw in the 11th pick in the draft as well.

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I am really excited about this offseason cause I really think there are plenty of directions Joe can go and it will be up to him to have a big plan and if I have faith in one person to do this, its Joe. I really don't think people understand how good of a job he has done because I really think they look only what he has done recently, which besides the Darko pick (which was a huge mistake, don't get me wrong, cause with taking Bosh, which would of been the pick had it not been Darko, our franchise would of been set for a long time) and perhaps not getting the right coach after Brown, it really has been rather good if not great. But what people forget is what this team was before Joe took over, he basically took a team with really bad players and terrible contracts and turned it over in one year into a playoff contender that was very cap friendly (I think we lost to Boston in the second round) with really smart trades and I'm not talking about the Grant Hill trade, that was basically luck cause he had no choice to do a sign and trade. Joe is a master at not overpaying for players which is the main reason this team has been consistently good for so long.

Ok so I have a few questions. Would the Pistons be interested in a sign and trade for Arenas? I really haven't heard about him much from Piston fans and I heard he is opting out so if he wanted to be with us Washington would have no choice but to do a sign and trade. I know he is injury prone but he is player that has superstar capabilities. Another player that I think the Pistons should be interested in is Igudala, he is another option for a sign and trade. Or going after Deng.

I actually think New York would consider that Randolf for Rasheed (and swapping first round picks) trade someone else mentioned cause I think New York is really pushing for some cap relief in two years (to go after Lebron, Wade, and so forth) and Randolf has two more years on his contract than Sheed.

I thought about that Miami trade a little bit and I thought I would add to it a little.

Det trades

Prince

Sheed

Billups

#29 pick

Miami trades

Marion (sign and trade)

Haslem

Jason Williams (sign and trade to match salaries)

#2 pick

I think this trade would take us down a notch for next year but it would add a little more longivity and put us right back in a year or two for the championship. There is also the option of trading down with that pick and picking up Lopez from Stanford and more picks to add some more size since we would be undersized with Beasley, Haslem, Amir, Dice, and Max (or make a trade). I think Miami would possibly do this thinking you add Wade with those three and that is a championship caliber team.

Again this just shows that there is just so many options, I'm just really intrigued by this summer to see what Joe is going to do.

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Here is a question for all:

Is Jermaine O'Neal just too banged up to take a flyer on? I read somewhere that the Pacers were hoping to give him away for an expiring contract and were willing to throw in the 11th pick in the draft as well.

So, you're saying we could trade Sheed for O'Neal and the 11th pick?

I'd be all over that like flies on Flip.

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re: the Heat trade

I don't think that would be wise on two counts

1) I want NO part of J Williams

2) I really don't think Marion and spare change is the same as two all-stars and prince (one of which is an expiring contract)

3) I don't think Dumars it really THAT interested in dealing with Miami and giving them a championship caliber team.

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So, you're saying we could trade Sheed for O'Neal and the 11th pick?

I'd be all over that like flies on Flip.

This is what I was basing my comment on:

The Indiana Pacers are trying to dangle the #11 pick in hopes of being able to package it with one of their ugly contracts (preferably Jermaine O’Neal). There is talk out of O’Neal’s camp that he anticipates being trade to Cleveland at some point this summer, possibly in a deal involving expiring contracts such as Wally Szczerbiak and Eric Snow.

The Pacers don’t want to give O’Neal away for nothing, but the temptation of shedding his 23 million dollar contract from their cap figure (giving them substantial cap space to work with in July of 2009) may be too great to pass up. On Cleveland’s end, it makes sense for their ownership to spend the money it will take to try and appease LeBron James and show them they are making the efforts to put together a championship caliber team. We’ve heard rumblings about this Cleveland/Indiana trade from a number of well-informed sources, so there appears to be at least some truth to it.

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Pistons Lineup:

SF-Diaw, Herrmann, 8th pick (?)

PF-Maxiell, Johnson

C-Stoudamie, Villanueva, Ratliff (?)

PG-Billups, Barbosa, Hunter(?)

SG-Stuckey, Afflalo, Mason

Jesus. Talk about gutting the Pistons.

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pistons fans are off their rocker, we've got the same starters for 4+ years, a very cohesive unit, with one guy who everyone thinks should leave(sheed) which makes is value drop, especially in the last year of his contract. We'd be lucky to get a #9 pick for him. And they've lost in the conference finals with a coach who has a history of not getting over the top. The Pistons need to make small moves, besides the one they already made(new coach). Trade sheed and try to get a Kevin Love type, who would fit into that spot and share time with maxiel and make the pistons offense a smooth running machine with his passing ability and outlet skills. The whole trade all our guys for 3 stars worked this year for Boston, but it's not gonna work for detroit. If you trade for guys like Jason Richardson or Carmello Anthony, you're gonna see the pistons struggle to get out of the first round next year, there's a reason guys like that are on losing teams and always up to be traded, they are selfish basketball players, which is EXACTLY the opposite of what we as Pistons fans have gotten used to. A team that loses in the conference finals doesn't need a complete overhaul, they need to add a few pieces that are good enough to put them over the top. Why keep Michael Curry with zero experience as the new coach if you're not going to keep the players that he's create relationships with? doesn't make sense
I agree 100%. I mean why the hell would you break up your unit for one guy who'll supposedly fill needs. Wtf? By trading 3 or 4 players for a superstar and maybe another decent player, you create a lot more holes! Its like patching up a hole in a sinking ship then immediately smashing more holes into it. Look at the Nets (pre-kidd trade), the Bobcats, the Nuggets, Clippers, 06 Lakers, the Heat... They have a few guys with huge talent but no supporting cast or chemistry. Is that what you all want us to become? Please, don't give me the Stuckey's as good as Billups crap.

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I agree 100%. I mean why the hell would you break up your unit for one guy who'll supposedly fill needs. Wtf? By trading 3 or 4 players for a superstar and maybe another decent player, you create a lot more holes! Its like patching up a hole in a sinking ship then immediately smashing more holes into it. Look at the Nets (pre-kidd trade), the Bobcats, the Nuggets, Clippers, 06 Lakers, the Heat... They have a few guys with huge talent but no supporting cast or chemistry. Is that what you all want us to become? Please, don't give me the Stuckey's as good as Billups crap.

I'm not saying I personally want to blowup the whole team, but I would say that one of Dumars' best strengths is getting contributing, complimentary players. I think he could build a hell of a team with a superstar armed only with a couple decent draft picks and the MLE.

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JO is a guy I wanted earlier, if he had opted out. I figured a sign and trade for 10-12 million would have done it (Sheed being the guy we ship).

Now that he didn't opt out, I am a bit more hesitant. $44 million over 2 years for a guy who has played something like 50, 70 and 40 games the past 3 years (all guesses, to lazy to look up now). Plus, he shoots a really low percent for being a 7 footer, around 45% from the field I think.

I guess the cap hit wouldn't be horrible, they will be over with or without JO so it would depend if they want to pay the luxury tax or not. With the 11th pick tossed in, this might not be a horrible move. We would really be putting a lot of faith in Arnie to keep him healthy, but if anyone has earned that faith it is Arnie.

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re: the Heat trade

I don't think that would be wise on two counts

1) I want NO part of J Williams

2) I really don't think Marion and spare change is the same as two all-stars and prince (one of which is an expiring contract)

3) I don't think Dumars it really THAT interested in dealing with Miami and giving them a championship caliber team.

I guess it all depends on how high Dumars is on Beasley and the rest of the draft if they trade down from the #2 spot. Jason Williams would be nothing but a salary match and a someone that can play the point when Stuckey was resting. I honestly probably wouldn't do this trade, but I think Joe is going to be offered similar trades like this and its going to be up to Joe to determine if he wants to just make a few small changes and go for a championship for a another couple of years (which what trading for Oneil would do) or trading for some younger players with the potential to compete for 10 more years. With the salary cap, it is so hard to maintain a championship caliber team for that long and the Pistons (mainly because Joe hasn't overpaid for his players) have done just that.

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Trade Prince and Sheed for Stephon Marbury, David Lee, and #6 in the draft. Then buy-out Marbury. I wouldnt mind that trade plus it woould shed a few million b/c Marbury's contract runs out after a year. They would probably save like 5million since Sheed's contract will end too plus additional salary of Lee and #6.

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Trade Prince and Sheed for Stephon Marbury, David Lee, and #6 in the draft. Then buy-out Marbury. I wouldnt mind that trade plus it woould shed a few million b/c Marbury's contract runs out after a year. They would probably save like 5million since Sheed's contract will end too plus additional salary of Lee and #6.

I think NY is just going to let Marbury come off the cap, Walsh's focus is getting their payroll in line. I think they will try to use the #6 to get rid of one of their other bad contracts that is longer, like Randolph/Richardson/Crawford/Curry/Jeffries/James.

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http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080618/SPORTS03/306180022/1051/rss16

The Pistons' 3 most likely moves: McGrady, 'Melo or ... nothing

Normally, I am not a big fan of trade speculation. It tends to get ridiculous: How about Jiri Hudler and Jimmy Howard for Sidney Crosby? No? What if they throw in Evgeni Malkin? I'll tell you what: I'll give you my pickle for half your sandwich. No, I won't throw in the barbecue chips. OK, a few.

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It's silly. But when Joe Dumars announced that he would try to shake up his Pistons core, he practically begged people to speculate. And considering Dumars is unlikely to swing a deal before the draft June 26, or even the start of free agency July 1, this gives us a bunch of time to either a) work or b) dream up trade scenarios. (Or, in my case, both at once!)

Let's look at this logically. The Pistons have six highly regarded starters: Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Antonio McDyess, Tayshaun Prince, Rasheed Wallace and Rodney Stuckey.

If you were looking to make a trade, and you had six highly regarded starters, wouldn't you try to package two for a superstar? Of course you would.

SCENARIO ONE: That Carmelo fellow

The Carmelo Anthony rumors make sense. The Pistons can send Billups and Prince to Denver for a package headlined by Anthony.

The Nuggets probably would improve next year because Billups and Prince are a better fit with Allen Iverson than Anthony is. The Pistons, meanwhile, would have a core of Stuckey, Rip Hamilton and Anthony for the next few years. Anthony isn't perfect -- he seems to avoid defense at all times, except when he gets arrested -- but he is incredibly talented and only 24. He is worth the risk.

But what if the Nuggets balk? Where would the Pistons turn? Let's keep the Carmelo logic: The Pistons probably need a team in the Western Conference, in playoff contention, willing to deal a superstar for two starters -- one of whom almost certainly would be Billups.

Follow that train of thought, and it won't take you long to end up in Houston.

SCENARIO TWO: T-Mac

The Rockets have never made it out of the first round of the playoffs with Tracy McGrady. They have tried a disciplined coach (Jeff Van Gundy) and a loose coach (Rick Adelman). They had Yao Ming complement McGrady and had McGrady complement Yao. This year, they even tried winning without Yao, who was hurt. And for a while, that looked like it would work. But it didn't.

Right now, McGrady is a better player than Anthony. But he also is five years older and not quite as durable. Plus, the Rockets have another star -- Yao -- so they can trade McGrady and still plausibly contend for a title.

How about McGrady straight up for Billups and Prince? It works under the salary cap. And if Houston is willing to part with McGrady, the deal makes some sense for both teams.

Billups and Prince could elevate Houston in the West next year. And the Pistons would start Stuckey, Hamilton, McGrady, Wallace and McDyess. That lineup could contend for a title.

McGrady has pouted on occasion and coasted at other times. But he has two years left on his contract. The Pistons could figure that McGrady would play hard in year one because he is on a new team, and then play hard in year two because he would be playing for a new contract.

And speaking of new contracts, this brings us to ...

SCENARIO THREE: The Pistons bide their time

Other than Anthony and McGrady, I don't see any true superstars who could be available and make sense for the Pistons. They still could make a trade, but they would have to shoot lower.

This scenario still could land the Pistons a star. Wallace's $13.68-million salary comes off the books next summer. As of now, they should be roughly $11 million under the salary cap in 2009.

And in the summer of 2010, they should be way, way under the cap. That, by the way, is the summer when LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh could all hit free agency.

This is why Dumars is in no hurry to move Wallace. 'Sheed has value because of his unique skill set and expiring deal -- but the elite teams, who love his skill set, won't want a one-year rental, and the bad teams, who would love an expiring deal, don't care about the skill set. For that reason, he might have more value to the Pistons than anybody else.

Fans might not like it, but Wallace easily could be a Piston again next year. But his days as the most gifted player on the roster are numbered. You can be sure of that.

Contact MICHAEL ROSENBERG at 313-222-6052 or mrosenberg@freepress.com.

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none of those trades help our inside game or our rebounding, which is the main problem this team has. We win the title this year if Sheed plays PF instead of SG.

None of that article addresses that, including getting Lebron or D-Wade.

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none of those trades help our inside game or our rebounding, which is the main problem this team has. We win the title this year if Sheed plays PF instead of SG.

None of that article addresses that, including getting Lebron or D-Wade.

Well, I think you are a bit out of touch with this team if you think all we needed to beat Boston was a few more boards and inside points from Sheed. Billups, Dyess, and Prince were all nearly invisible in at least 2+ games each in that series.

As far as this not addressing the rebounding problem, that depends on how you look at it I guess. Even though Anthony is a better rebounder then Prince, its not enough to really discuss.

Both TMac and Anthony command double teams, something nobody on our team currently does. That makes teams rotate and that makes them out of position when the shot goes up, possibly giving us an advantage on the boards. Second, both go to the hoop. Players that penetrate create all sorts of problems for other teams. You then have defensive players sliding over to help the penetration, trying to draw a charge, get a block etc. When players have to start doing that, our weakside big man will be left alone or with a smaller player on him. That in itself, creates more rebounding chances.

Are those things enough to fix our rebounding problem? No, not even close. But if you combine those things with Curry busting heads and stressing rebounding, it could help quite a bit. Make those trades, use some of the MLE on Jamaal Magloire if possible and that team would be pretty good.

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Probably the best scenario is waiting and using the cap space. I would hate to see them rush into a deal and get stuck with a bum like Randolph for 3 years. Pistons should be patient and smart, which Dumars usually is.

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That capspace stuff rarely if ever works. If you don't luck into a great player in the draft, you have to build like Dumars did with clever trades. Teams end up getting desperate in their cap space years and overpay for guys like Rashard Lewis.

I don't think that strategy would work real well for the Pistons, if they aren't winning I'm not sure they would be an attractive destination for free agents.

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If McGrady didn't have back problems all the time, I can see some logic in the Prince/Billups deal for him from the Pistons point of view, not sure why Houston would want Prince though, w/Battier there already, and I don't want to move Billups and Hamilton.

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The Pistons currently have 10 players under contract for 2008-09. Their combined salary level for 2008-09 is about $60 million which will probably be just under the cap.

Sheed

Dyess

Prince

Billups

Rip

Stuckey

Afflalo

Amir

Maxiell

Samb

To the 10 look for the Pistons to add

1st round pick

MLE

That makes 12.

So the Pistons will need to add 3 more guys to get to 15.

Herrmann's status in unknown at this time. Reportedly he is talking to one or two teams in Greece and may have had an offer.

We may keep our second round pick and he could make the list of 15 though it is a long shot.

We may resign Dixon, Hayes and/or Ratliff depending on several things.

So basically we now have 11 locks with a MLE probably being the 12th. Because we only have 10 guys under contract and are basically at the cap I don't see us trading our 29th pick. Because then we would have to sign an MLE and then another 4 guys without gong over the cap.

After that is anyone's guess. But whoever they are Joe D. won't sign anyone if they take us over the cap.

I still don't expect us to make a trade unless it is Sheed to reduce our team salary level or unless we can make a steal of a deal and remain under the cap sufficiently, so that we can still fill out the roster with last 3 who will come from free agents.

Since Joe D. does not go over the cap per Mr. Davidson trading for someone like a T-Mac or Randolph is not feasible financially even if we can trade Wallace for either of them. I have already given my reasons on the Carmelo thread for Joe D. not wanting to trade for Anthony. There are a number of reasons that I don't think Randolph will find his way onto the Pistons roster for next year, besides his salary and they include among other things, he is slow, his defense his very questionable and he never passes the ball once he gets it.

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1st, I don't know what the luxury cap will be, but I believe you are right that we are close. However, this comment:

Since Joe D. does not go over the cap per Mr. Davidson trading for someone like a T-Mac or Randolph is not feasible financially even if we can trade Wallace for either of them.

doesn't make sense to me as the only way we would get a high salaried player is by trading equal salaries thus not increasing our commitment for this season. Now we may need to sign another roster filler, but that would be at league minimum anyhow.

I sure hope Randolph doesn't make his way onto our roster as he would be a much bigger headache than Sheed.

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Betrayer...if you would.

I like the Anthony trade, but it needs to include some extra players to make it work:

Billups/Tay/Max/Pick

--for--

Anthony/Camby

We know this helps Denver. They get to move Melo, add an all-star PG and SF who can play with AI, get a young talent in Max, get another 1st round pick, and bring in their hometown hero. A starting lineup of Billups, Iverson, Prince, KMart, and Nene can make some serious noise. Plus, they have a lights out shooter in JR Smith coming off the bench and they're getting a good draft pick to add to that mix.

For us, we get a starting lineup of Stuckey, Hamilton, Carmelo, Sheed, and Camby with Dice, Amir, and Afflalo coming off the bench. We also have the MLE to sign a backup or two. That's a championship caliber team. And with everything that Deleterious mentioned about double-teams, plus a defensive coach, plus Camby I think it also solves our rebounding, paint scoring, and paint defense problems.

But, the great thing is that it also gives us a lot of flexibility because we still have Sheed's contract expiring in 09' (and then Camby's in 2010). If Sheed performs well in a contract year under a new coach with a defensive frontcourt mate - awesome! If not, we can deal him in February to a team that wants cap relief or we can keep him till the end of the year and use the cap money ourselves.

Also, we won't be depending on Sheed's rebounding/scoring/paint-play with that lineup. He can be the 4th option, so that anything he gives you is gravy - and with Sheed's talent that can be a lot of gravy at times. Plus, having him as an outside threat will actually be a good dynamic in this scenario with guys like Camby, Melo, and Stuckey who all spend time in the paint on offense.

The move simply makes a ton of sense for both teams. Get on the horn and make the deal, Joe.

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