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Deleterious

2008 Offseason Speculation/Rumors/Ideas

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Max is a nice story, but he has a lot of limitations. He has probably already hit his ceiling. He is far closer to filler then untouchable.

And even if it is his ceiling (which I completely disagree), his ceiling is a better post player than whatever scrub we could pull out to play post for us. I'm sorry but as his age with his skills and the fact we could be losing our two starting forwards...he's untouchable.

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And even if it is his ceiling (which I completely disagree), his ceiling is a better post player than whatever scrub we could pull out to play post for us. I'm sorry but as his age with his skills and the fact we could be losing our two starting forwards...he's untouchable.

Joe would move him in a heartbeat if it got a deal done.

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Marion is an unrestricted free agent. Of course that doesn't mean that the Heat couldn't do a sign and trade. However, Marion's current salary is off the chart and he has never won squat. Marion does not have the Pistons DNA. He played too long for D'Antonio at Phoenix. Marion's idea of defense is about what Anthony's is.
Admit it... You don't want Marion because he would take PT away from Johnson. I've always liked Marion, and I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

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Admit it... You don't want Marion because he would take PT away from Johnson. I've always liked Marion, and I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

You may just be pulling Buddahfan's leg here, but just case...

Marion is a SF. The Suns played him at PF because they like to run small ball, but he's no more a PF than Tay is. Amir is obviously slated to play PF, not SF. So, I don't see any issues there at all.

(Obviously, all of this is just fun speculation right now anyway and I'd much prefer the Rip/Sheed for JRich/Okafor trade anyway)

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You may just be pulling Buddahfan's leg here, but just case... Marion is a SF. The Suns played him at PF because they like to run small ball, but he's no more a PF than Tay is. Amir is obviously slated to play PF, not SF. So, I don't see any issues there at all. (Obviously, all of this is just fun speculation right now anyway and I'd much prefer the Rip/Sheed for JRich/Okafor trade anyway)
I think people here underrate Rip. He's an excellent mid-range shooter, and he hits open shots. That may not seem like much but he's a very good player. Without him, we don't have any shooters on the court. Trading him would be a mistake.

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I think people here underrate Rip. He's an excellent mid-range shooter, and he hits open shots. That may not seem like much but he's a very good player. Without him, we don't have any shooters on the court. Trading him would be a mistake.

Rip is a great catch and shoot player. He's also the most one-dimensional scorer on the team from a position where you need a guy that can do many more things. He's a turnover waiting to happen when he puts the ball on the floor, he can't get his own shot, he can't penetrate and draw a double, his three point shooting is poor, and he cannot finish above the rim. Obviously, it looks like I'm calling him a bad player, but I'm not. He's very good at what he does, but he's definitely not a "sacred cow" at this point and I think he's a prime candidate for replacement when you consider a glaring weakness we have in penetrating.

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I think people here underrate Rip. He's an excellent mid-range shooter, and he hits open shots. That may not seem like much but he's a very good player. Without him, we don't have any shooters on the court. Trading him would be a mistake.

I completely agree. Again, IMO Rip is one of the most unique scorers in the league. Nobody else does what he does. I believe he is the most valuable Piston, not on the trade market, but as an asset to the team.

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I don't want to lose Rip either...I think his skill set fits great on this team if we can get an inside presence and get Stuckey some more minutes to be that "create your own shot" guy.

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I don't want to lose Rip either...I think his skill set fits great on this team if we can get an inside presence and get Stuckey some more minutes to be that "create your own shot" guy.

Agreed. If I were Dumars, the guy I would be trying to unload in the off-season would be Billups. He's been the captain and floor general on a team that Dumars doesn't believe lived up to expectations. I'd much rather see Stuckey paired up with Rip than with Billups.

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I completely agree. Again, IMO Rip is one of the most unique scorers in the league. Nobody else does what he does. I believe he is the most valuable Piston, not on the trade market, but as an asset to the team.

Not to mention he is a very gritty defender when need be. Ask the SGs in the league and ask them who plays the best on man defense on them and Rip will be in the discussion. Rip isn't necesarrily on Artest's or Bowen's level but he is pretty close.

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I don't believe that any of the guards will be traded unless we can get better value at the guard position.

Without them play we would have been eliminated in 4 games by Boston.

Dumars Pistons history started with a 3 guard rotation; i.e. Zeke, The Microwave and Joe D. and I believe that now that he has 3 good guards he will continue in that tradition.

If he trades either Billups or Hamilton it will be for a guard unless we are able to move up in the draft within the top 10 picks and draft a guard.

Joe D. likes a good 3 guard rotation.

We need more help up front. The lack of rebounding, Sheed's play and Tay's fading on offense cost us the series against Boston. Sheed and Tay are the most likely to go but my guess is probably only Sheed since Amir can replace him.

I don't believe that we will trade a Billups, Rip or Tay unless we can get what Joe perceives is a better player with a greater drive to win a Title at any of those positions. It of course will all have to fit the salary cap.

I would look for Sheed to be traded for a PF or Center and for us to draft a PF or Center in the first round.

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Tay's clutch defense has allowed for the pistons to win multiple playoff games. I thin Joe D. wants to reinstate the pistons dominate defense, while adding a penetrator. Trading Prince doesn't help fulfill this goal.

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Yeah, but you arent going to trade Sheed for a better PF then he is. It simply doesn't work that way. You can't just snap your fingers and trade Sheed for a better player then what he is.

Our strength right now is our guards (both in talent and numbers) and our weakness is the front court. So you trade your strength away to improve your weakness.

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Rip is a great catch and shoot player. He's also the most one-dimensional scorer on the team from a position where you need a guy that can do many more things. He's a turnover waiting to happen when he puts the ball on the floor, he can't get his own shot, he can't penetrate and draw a double, his three point shooting is poor, and he cannot finish above the rim. Obviously, it looks like I'm calling him a bad player, but I'm not. He's very good at what he does, but he's definitely not a "sacred cow" at this point and I think he's a prime candidate for replacement when you consider a glaring weakness we have in penetrating.

I just made this post in another thread, about a comment like this, but I'll post it here again because I think it fits here as well...

I think Rip's driving to the hoop has improved tremendously since his first year. If you made that comment two years ago (or even last year) I would've agreed. I don't think it's necessarily true any more. I'm not saying I want him to take the ball to the hoop 10 times a game, but with the number of times he does do it, I look at Hamilton being fairly efficient with it now.

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Another thing that can be said about Rip. . .like the best players in the league he seems to use every off-season to build a part of his game. I don't think we can say this about the other core guys.

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Another thing that can be said about Rip. . .like the best players in the league he seems to use every off-season to build a part of his game. I don't think we can say this about the other core guys.

Totally agree. He used to have one way to get his offense. Now he can drive and he can post up. His defense is better than anyone ever wants to give him credit for and his effort remains unquestioned. He's clearly a keeper for me.

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Yeah, but you arent going to trade Sheed for a better PF then he is. It simply doesn't work that way. You can't just snap your fingers and trade Sheed for a better player then what he is.

Our strength right now is our guards (both in talent and numbers) and our weakness is the front court. So you trade your strength away to improve your weakness.

I disagree...you may not be able to get a PF who is considered a better player, but you can get a PF who plays PF better. Sheed plays guard on offense and that does us no good.

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I disagree...you may not be able to get a PF who is considered a better player, but you can get a PF who plays PF better. Sheed plays guard on offense and that does us no good.

Nazr Mohammed plays like a PF, maybe we could snag him. :laugh:

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can I just say that the NBA rules regarding trading players and salaries is absolutely f'in ridiculous. How any teams get any trades done is beyond me.

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Trade exceptions, sign and trades, mid-level exceptions all help...

Most of the inane rules are to combat collusion. Hooray for parity, at least its working in the western conference.

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pistons fans are off their rocker, we've got the same starters for 4+ years, a very cohesive unit, with one guy who everyone thinks should leave(sheed) which makes is value drop, especially in the last year of his contract. We'd be lucky to get a #9 pick for him. And they've lost in the conference finals with a coach who has a history of not getting over the top. The Pistons need to make small moves, besides the one they already made(new coach). Trade sheed and try to get a Kevin Love type, who would fit into that spot and share time with maxiel and make the pistons offense a smooth running machine with his passing ability and outlet skills. The whole trade all our guys for 3 stars worked this year for Boston, but it's not gonna work for detroit. If you trade for guys like Jason Richardson or Carmello Anthony, you're gonna see the pistons struggle to get out of the first round next year, there's a reason guys like that are on losing teams and always up to be traded, they are selfish basketball players, which is EXACTLY the opposite of what we as Pistons fans have gotten used to. A team that loses in the conference finals doesn't need a complete overhaul, they need to add a few pieces that are good enough to put them over the top.

Why keep Michael Curry with zero experience as the new coach if you're not going to keep the players that he's create relationships with? doesn't make sense

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Agreed. If I were Dumars, the guy I would be trying to unload in the off-season would be Billups. He's been the captain and floor general on a team that Dumars doesn't believe lived up to expectations. I'd much rather see Stuckey paired up with Rip than with Billups.

if you replace Billups, be prepared to see reduced production from RIP as well. Their on court chemisty is what has made them both advance to the levels they are at. I think our expectations for Tayshaun are too high, thus he isn't living up to them. I think the only guy in our starting rotation that could/will be moved is Sheed, and I don't think we'll be better because of it, we'll be different.

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if you replace Billups, be prepared to see reduced production from RIP as well. Their on court chemisty is what has made them both advance to the levels they are at. I think our expectations for Tayshaun are too high, thus he isn't living up to them. I think the only guy in our starting rotation that could/will be moved is Sheed, and I don't think we'll be better because of it, we'll be different.

Granted its a small sample size, but didn't rip go off for over 30 both games against Orlando when Billups didn't play?

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