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rbennett60

Guillen again

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I'll come out and say it again; who wants Guillen off 3rd base? After the screw up last night, I can't believe any self-respecting team would ever consider benching Inge for Guillen, I don't care how much better his bat is.

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I want him gone from 3B. He either plays 1b or DH.... that is it for me. A good chunk of this blame for the terrible season falls directly with Leyland and Dombrowski.

His bat is not that much better right now than Inge, not enough to justify throwing him out there to boot the ball around over and over.

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His bat is not that much better right now than Inge, not enough to justify throwing him out there to boot the ball around over and over.

You do make a good point there. His numbers have been consistently falling for the past month.

Not saying to bench him, but splitting time until he heats up wouldn't be bad.

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How is he any better at first?? At least at third he isn't putting himself right in the way of base runners. Wanting him at first makes no sense to me.

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How is he any better at first?? At least at third he isn't putting himself right in the way of base runners. Wanting him at first makes no sense to me.

Guillen at 1B is an accident waiting to happen. He played there less than a month and had 4 or 5 near collisions with baserunners.

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It's really hard to say how much he is hurting us at 3rd, but I agree he is somewhat. The idea to bench Guillen for Inge is not a good one. Guillen is twice the hitter Inge is. I really don't see what else Leyland can do. Guillen has to play 3rd. The recent good games by Sheff have pretty much assured that he will be the DH come hell or high water. The outfield is looking good as is. Cabrera needs to stay at 1st so he can continue to improve. There really aren't any other choices.

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You do make a good point there. His numbers have been consistently falling for the past month.

Not saying to bench him, but splitting time until he heats up wouldn't be bad.

Or maybe save him for the last couple innings when we are behind and we substitute him offensively

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If I had my way, I'd move Polanco back to third and have Guillen play 2nd. I really don't know why we aren't doing this...even in the short term as a fix.

Of interest, stats at 3B:

Polanco 332 games, 15E .982

Guillen 121 games, 25E .927

Inge 561 games, 75E .957

EDIT: I realize errors and fielding percentage are not good representation of a player's true ability, range, etc. But it does speak to the competancy of the player at the position. I can't imagine Guillen would rope in more balls on his best day than Polanco would on his worst though.

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If I had my way, I'd move Polanco back to third and have Guillen play 2nd. I really don't know why we aren't doing this...even in the short term as a fix.

Of interest, stats at 3B:

Polanco 332 games, 15E .982

Guillen 121 games, 25E .927

Inge 561 games, 75E .957

EDIT: I realize errors and fielding percentage are not good representation of a player's true ability, range, etc. But it does speak to the competancy of the player at the position. I can't imagine Guillen would rope in more balls on his best day than Polanco would on his worst though.

Problem is you may be thinking about 6 years ago Carlos. He was also better at short and 3rd then than he is now. He would get destroyed at 2nd.

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His bat is not that much better right now than Inge, not enough to justify throwing him out there to boot the ball around over and over.

Carlos Guillen

This Season: .287 .363 .439

Career: .290 .358 .449

Brandon Inge

This Season: .233 .331 .427

Career: .240 .305 .395

Best Ever Season: .287 .340 .453

I'm fine with the idea of benching Sheffield and putting Guillen at DH most days, but no, Inge's bat really isn't that close to Guillen's, even with Guillen struggling and Inge as hot as he gets they've got a 30+ point gap in OBP

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Since I don't think Sheffield will ever be fully healthy this year, I still want to see Sheffield on the DL, Inge at third and Guillen at DH.

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Since I don't think Sheffield will ever be fully healthy this year, I still want to see Sheffield on the DL, Inge at third and Guillen at DH.

This is what I want also.

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Since I don't think Sheffield will ever be fully healthy this year, I still want to see Sheffield on the DL, Inge at third and Guillen at DH.

Because a defensive third baseman is an important part of a team?

It'd be a different conversation if Inge played short as well as he played third. You can carry a glove man or two on the team, but it makes sense to put him at defensive positions that are difficult, like C, CF, SS, or to some extent, 2B. But having a great defensive third baseman isn't worth it. He doesn't have enough balls hit to him, doesn't participate in enough plays in a game to justify it. It doesn't matter how good the rest of the lineup is. Dombrowski says you need top 10 talent at each position to compete. With Cabrera, Polanco, Ordonez, and Granderson, you have that for sure. With Pudge, the LF group, Renteria, and Guillen, you probably have that. With Inge at third, you don't have it at all.

Look at the Red Sox, both this year and last. They carry basically one glove man - at SS. Youk, Pedroia, Lowell, Manny, and Ellsbury are all top 10 at their positions. Drew and Varitek are maybe in that group. But Lugo isn't close. His ticket is his glove. They can get away with carrying one glove man, but their glove man plays one of the most difficult positions on the field. He is involved in enough plays in a game to make his awful bat worth it. Third base just isn't that type of position.

Think of it this way - would you carry a RF who couldn't hit, but had a spectacular glove? Maybe during roster expansion in September, like the Tigers did with Clevlen last year, but not on the 25 man roster. Now, I understand that 3B is tougher to play than RF, but this illustrates the point.

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What I can't understand is Cabrera's looked a lot better at 1B than Guillen has. Guillen had all winter to learn the position. Is he just incapable? And how can he look so bad now when he dind't look that bad last year or in the WBC?

He strikes me as a little bit lazy and airheaded. How many times have we seen him flip the bat on what he thought was ball 4, only to have a strike rung up?

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Because a defensive third baseman is an important part of a team?

It's more important than having a designated hitter who is batting .200 with no power. Seriously though, it depends on the team. Defense is more important at some positions than others but it matters at every position. A good fielding third baseman baseman can save runs that a poor defensive third baseman can not. This is especially true on a team with a lot of left-handed pitchers and pitchers that induce ground balls. I don't think it's a good idea for a team like that to have such limited range on the left side of the infield (including Renteria).

Sheffield is showing some signs of turning it around but he is going to have to do a lot better than he has in order for me to change my opinion on this issue. Even if Sheffield and Inge both reach their PECOTA projections for this year, I'd still rather have Inge.

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First base is also a completely different animal than shortstop. I played a lot of first base... just the whole concept of picking the ball out of the dirt contrasts greatly with fielding a ground ball at shortstop. Why has Cabrera learned it so much quicker? I really can't answer that. But it's difficult going from the most on-the-move infielder to a relatively stationary one. That's probably a little nit-picky though.

Guillen's batting numbers were terrible at Seattle when he played 3B, and he wasn't a great fielder -- but he has evolved since then. A lot of his poor numbers can also be attributed to his party-hearty attitude with best buddy Freddy Garcia. Splitting those two up help their careers immensely.

Guillen is just plain slowing down. He can't get down for those grounders as easily as he used to -- it's a lot of wear and tear on knees. His arm also isn't the strongest, but we knew that (it doesn't help that Renteria's arm is even worse).

Let's face it -- Guillen is here for his bat.

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It's more important than having a designated hitter who is batting .200 with no power. Seriously though, it depends on the team. Defense is more important at some positions than others but it matters at every position. A good fielding third baseman baseman can save runs that a poor defensive third baseman can not. This is especially true on a team with a lot of left-handed pitchers and pitchers that induce ground balls. I don't think it's a good idea for a team like that to have such limited range on the left side of the infield (including Renteria).

Sheffield is showing some signs of turning it around but he is going to have to do a lot better than he has in order for me to change my opinion on this issue. Even if Sheffield and Inge both reach their PECOTA projections for this year, I'd still rather have Inge.

Sheff is still getting on pace at a .350 clip, even with batting .200. He's got skill that Inge couldn't dream of. If you watch the games, you can tell that Sheffield is getting things together. He has hit some rockets in the past week or so, but several have gone foul. To me, that speaks of timing issues, not diminished power.

This is all ignoring that practical aspects of having Inge at third, too. Can you move a player three times in six months, especially one that is basically the team captain? Would Sheff go on the DL? Who is backup catcher if Inge plays third? Do you play Inge at catcher every fifth game, and have Guillen play third? Or do you make a roster move to get someone like Hessman up here?

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Sheff is still getting on pace at a .350 clip, even with batting .200. He's got skill that Inge couldn't dream of. If you watch the games, you can tell that Sheffield is getting things together. He has hit some rockets in the past week or so, but several have gone foul. To me, that speaks of timing issues, not diminished power.

This is all ignoring that practical aspects of having Inge at third, too. Can you move a player three times in six months, especially one that is basically the team captain? Would Sheff go on the DL? Who is backup catcher if Inge plays third? Do you play Inge at catcher every fifth game, and have Guillen play third? Or do you make a roster move to get someone like Hessman up here?

I watch the games, and I see Sheffield getting a little better but this has been going on for a long time. The big problem with Sheffield is that he plays all the time and bats third all the time regardless of whether he is hitting and healthy. I can definitely envision him going on a tear at some point. Unfortunately, I can also see him aggravating his shoulder again and staying in the line-up because he is Gary Sheffield. When he's healthy and hitting it's great to have him in the line-up but over a full season I want Inge (or Hessman). At this point in his career, I don't think Sheffield is much better than Thames and Raburn. At least, those guys would be benched or moved down in the line-up when they went into a slump.

As for Guillen's leadership, the team has been awful under his leadership this year so who cares? I understand why Leyland wouldn't want to move him again but that's his problem. I don't expect him to make the change. I also don't expect Sheffield to volunteer to go on the DL I 'm just telling you what I'd like to see as a fan.

Inge can still be the back up catcher and yes I would bring up Hessman to replace Sheffield. In fact, if they did bring up Hessman, they could put him at third rather than Inge or they could mix and match.

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Since I don't think Sheffield will ever be fully healthy this year, I still want to see Sheffield on the DL, Inge at third and Guillen at DH.

This is the correct answer

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Trade Guillen, Cabrera to 3rd, Larish at 1st

But wow would that screw up internal team dynamics for a while.

Here's a great idea, replace a horrible fielding third basemen with an equally horrible fielder, thereby avoiding playing the best fielding third basemen the team has. While we're at it, let's force the pitchers to DH, that'll really jazz our team up!

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What I can't understand is Cabrera's looked a lot better at 1B than Guillen has. Guillen had all winter to learn the position. Is he just incapable? And how can he look so bad now when he dind't look that bad last year or in the WBC?

He strikes me as a little bit lazy and airheaded. How many times have we seen him flip the bat on what he thought was ball 4, only to have a strike rung up?

My vote goes to just being obstinate. After all I don't think he ever bought in to the "Guillen can't play SS anymore" sentiment. However, since he was getting paid, he really didn't have much choice, other than simply performing poorly in the field, that is.

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The answer is to eat Sheffield's contract. I can bear to lose his 9 RBI's in over 1/4 of the season. Move Guillen to DH. Play Inge at 3B. Simple. Expensive, but simple. I agree that the failure to make this move is on Leyland and DD.

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The answer is to eat Sheffield's contract. I can bear to lose his 9 RBI's in over 1/4 of the season. Move Guillen to DH. Play Inge at 3B. Simple. Expensive, but simple. I agree that the failure to make this move is on Leyland and DD.

THIS

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