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I project that Ramon Santiago will have a better career than Vladimir Guerrero. He has better stats right now. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that he will do better going forward.

That is like saying that this year's Tigers team will be shut out over 20 times or whatever the projection is.

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Matt Joyce probably isn't that, but I wouldn't mind seeing him in the outfield for the next couple years if he keeps playing like he does now.

If Matt Joyce keeps playing like he does now, I project that he'll be a Hall of Famer...:classic:

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If Matt Joyce keeps playing like he does now, I project that he'll be a Hall of Famer...:classic:

Well, he doesn't have to keep slugging .680 or whatever he's doing right now. If he hits .280, gets on base at a .360 clip, and hits 25+ HR in a full year, that'd be the best production the Tigers have had out of left for a while.

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I see this thread evolved into several rationalizations about Cabrera. IMO, from watching Cabby play enough over the years, we've only seen a fraction of what he's capable. It's my seemingly minority opinion that he still doesn't have his legs underneath him as a result of his quad injury earlier on. When he's on he demonstrates incredible balance and strength from his lower half, complementing a set of quick hands. These are the reasons Cabrera came to the Tigers regarded as one of the best young hitters in the game and one of the best ever at this stage of a career. As I mentioned before, we've only seen a fraction ...

As for whoever mentioned Joyce would have a better career let alone season than Cabrera, I hope you were kidding .... I'm just holding out hope Joyce has a better career than Bobby Higginson at this point.

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I see this thread evolved into several rationalizations about Cabrera. IMO, from watching Cabby play enough over the years, we've only seen a fraction of what he's capable. It's my seemingly minority opinion that he still doesn't have his legs underneath him as a result of his quad injury earlier on. When he's on he demonstrates incredible balance and strength from his lower half, complementing a set of quick hands. These are the reasons Cabrera came to the Tigers regarded as one of the best young hitters in the game and one of the best ever at this stage of a career. As I mentioned before, we've only seen a fraction ...

As for whoever mentioned Joyce would have a better career let alone season than Cabrera, I hope you were kidding .... I'm just holding out hope Joyce has a better career than Bobby Higginson at this point.

why would you hope that is a joke... because Cabrera makes too much.

I would love to see a Tiger Rookie have a break out season -- that defined his career for the next 10 years of him wearing the Old English D

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why would you hope that is a joke... because Cabrera makes too much.

I would love to see a Tiger Rookie have a break out season -- that defined his career for the next 10 years of him wearing the Old English D

Because you're underestimating one of the best young hitters in the game, and giving way too much credit to a still upproven rookie. If Matt Joyce hits 20 - 25 home runs, drives in 70 or more in 500 + at bats I'd be thrilled. If Cabrera did this I'd be disappointed. The two players are on two entirely different planets, and I've still yet to mention how much money either player makes.

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Let's take this all slowly, people. Joyce is not Cabrera. He will not be better than Cabrera.

It's definitely not an excuse, but Miggy doesn't know these AL pitchers like he knew NL pitchers. I think we're just now starting to see some semblance of consistency out of Cabrera, and I wouldn't be surprised if he eclipsed .300 by the end of June. His power numbers aren't where they should be (well, none of his numbers are), but he's also had to learn how to play first base, so it's not like he's under the same practice regimen as he has been for the past few years.

Let's also not forget how this whole team was struggling, and when your whole team is down it tends to be epidemic. The Tigers have been pressing this year, and it's led to a lot of impatience at the plate. This has allowed pitchers to get in rhythm and stay in games longer. That's no secret. But once this team starts hitting consistently (we can only hope to play Seattle 100 more times), Miggy will catch on, too.

Now, for Joyce -- he hits the ball hard. I remember I was at the Saturday Yankees game and before his first AB of the game my friend said "Who is this loser?" Joyce was batting .222 at the time, it was his first week with the club. I told my friend "He hasn't had a lot of balls drop in, but when he hits it, he hits it." Lo and behold, he hit a home run on the next pitch.

Joyce will likely slow down. Much like Cabrera isn't used to AL pitchers yet, AL pitchers don't really know how to pitch Joyce yet. But they'll figure it out, and ABs will get tougher for Joyce (remember Chris Shelton?). But one thing that Joyce has that will keep him on the roster is his glove and his cannon.

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Let's take this all slowly, people. Joyce is not Cabrera. He will not be better than Cabrera.

It's definitely not an excuse, but Miggy doesn't know these AL pitchers like he knew NL pitchers. I think we're just now starting to see some semblance of consistency out of Cabrera, and I wouldn't be surprised if he eclipsed .300 by the end of June. His power numbers aren't where they should be (well, none of his numbers are), but he's also had to learn how to play first base, so it's not like he's under the same practice regimen as he has been for the past few years.

Let's also not forget how this whole team was struggling, and when your whole team is down it tends to be epidemic. The Tigers have been pressing this year, and it's led to a lot of impatience at the plate. This has allowed pitchers to get in rhythm and stay in games longer. That's no secret. But once this team starts hitting consistently (we can only hope to play Seattle 100 more times), Miggy will catch on, too.

Now, for Joyce -- he hits the ball hard. I remember I was at the Saturday Yankees game and before his first AB of the game my friend said "Who is this loser?" Joyce was batting .222 at the time, it was his first week with the club. I told my friend "He hasn't had a lot of balls drop in, but when he hits it, he hits it." Lo and behold, he hit a home run on the next pitch.

Joyce will likely slow down. Much like Cabrera isn't used to AL pitchers yet, AL pitchers don't really know how to pitch Joyce yet. But they'll figure it out, and ABs will get tougher for Joyce (remember Chris Shelton?). But one thing that Joyce has that will keep him on the roster is his glove and his cannon.

What is still amazing to me is in his 38 ABs he has 5 home runs 5 walks and only 4 strike outs.

I doubt that he can keep that up for the rest of the year yet alone his career.

Even if he hits only 25 HRs a year if he can continue to get more walks than strikeouts and average only 10.5 strike outs per 100 ABs he will have a very good career.

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What is still amazing to me is in his 38 ABs he has 5 home runs 5 walks and only 4 strike outs.

I doubt that he can keep that up for the rest of the year yet alone his career.

Even if he hits only 25 HRs a year if he can continue to get more walks than strikeouts and average only 10.5 strike outs per 100 ABs he will have a very good career.

I'm not saying he will be a bad hitter. From what it looks like, he will be a solid one. I just don't think he's going to be a star. Maybe like a Rusty Greer type of player.

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I'm not saying he will be a bad hitter. From what it looks like, he will be a solid one. I just don't think he's going to be a star. Maybe like a Rusty Greer type of player.

I think 38 ABs is not enough to project anything.

Lets hope for the best as long as he remains in a Tigers uniform.

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I can see Stephen King's next book:

A casual messageboard user begins dropping crude looking gif images of Tigers into various threads and is embraced by mostly all.

Then one day the arguing starts and the board turns. The young lad begins to create devilish looking Tigers who suddenly are able to jump out of the computer monitors and devour those who would oppose his opinions.

The Tigers brass and MLB begin to worry as attendance at Tigers games drops dramatically.

I need some sleep.........

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I can see Stephen King's next book:

A casual messageboard user begins dropping crude looking gif images of Tigers into various threads and is embraced by mostly all.

Then one day the arguing starts and the board turns. The young lad begins to create devilish looking Tigers who suddenly are able to jump out of the computer monitors and devour those who would oppose his opinions.

The Tigers brass and MLB begin to worry as attendance at Tigers games drops dramatically.

I need some sleep.........

You getting enough fiber?

joycebatspin.gif

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I'm just gonna go ahead and state that I am a real fan of Joyce, and definatly appreciate the offense/defense/youth that he displays.

obviously a WAY to small sampling, however ESPN (yea I know) project him to hit like 40 Homers. Literally love to see him do it! but.... really...

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I can see Stephen King's next book:

A casual messageboard user begins dropping crude looking gif images of Tigers into various threads and is embraced by mostly all.

Then one day the arguing starts and the board turns. The young lad begins to create devilish looking Tigers who suddenly are able to jump out of the computer monitors and devour those who would oppose his opinions.

The Tigers brass and MLB begin to worry as attendance at Tigers games drops dramatically.

I need some sleep.........

Buddha warned us about this guy. We didn't listen. :laugh:

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why would you hope that is a joke... because Cabrera makes too much.

I would like to know what you are projecting Joyce to do (independently of any comparison to Cabrera) both this year and over his career.

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I would like to know what you are projecting Joyce to do (independently of any comparison to Cabrera) both this year and over his career.

I don't know

I really don't know

I am not sure if Leyland will not send him down tomorrow

I am not sure what will happen to him injury-wise (and fitness-wise)

I am not good at projecting... I do believe if you can make it to the majors, you probably have the talent to be very good, it's up to you and luck from then on (which is true for players who are rookies or players who have six years under their belt)

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Because you're underestimating one of the best young hitters in the game, and giving way too much credit to a still upproven rookie. If Matt Joyce hits 20 - 25 home runs, drives in 70 or more in 500 + at bats I'd be thrilled. If Cabrera did this I'd be disappointed. The two players are on two entirely different planets, and I've still yet to mention how much money either player makes.

okay, I see the problem now.

You are projecting my thoughts. I don't know what Joyce or Cabrera are capable of -- that is the truth, I don't know them very well, my window is what I have seen from both this season; in the majors for the first time for one, the AL for the other.

But my talking points is not what they are capable of --- as I say I don't know that. The one thing I do know, it is a silly game, where injuries, fitness, luck, divorce, psychological dilemmas, etc. can change a career.

I have NEVER underestimated the talent of Cabrera. If I did, I am sorry --- never my intention. I really don't know his talent so I can't overestimate it or underestimate it. I haven't ever seen him play, only heard things on the radio --- things like Jim Price comments on his lackadaisical approach to fielding and the ability of pitchers of decent talent to pitch him inside.

why is it so hard for people to accept that Cabrera might get migraines and they might be deliberating and his career might end July. I could list about forty things that could hinder his career. Things you have no control over, but seem to want to defend Cabrera against. (Project all you want, I just don't believe you have the ability to know (not predict, but KNOW) the future.)

... Not sure why he is held up with such reverence, maybe you are related to him, maybe he is in your fantasy league, maybe he owes you a lot of money and you need him to play

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I don't know

I really don't know

I am not sure if Leyland will not send him down tomorrow

I am not sure what will happen to him injury-wise (and fitness-wise)

I am not good at projecting... I do believe if you can make it to the majors, you probably have the talent to be very good, it's up to you and luck from then on (which is true for players who are rookies or players who have six years under their belt)

OK, I just wanted to know if you were projecting a HOF career for Joyce. Because that is Cabrera's long-established performance level.

If Joyce is going to be comparable to Cabrera, either (a) Joyce will have to raise his game to a HOF level (there is a slight chance that could happen, although to project this would be a joke, hence Tramfan's comment), or (b) Joyce follows his established mediocre level of performance, maybe somewhat better (perhaps a Geoff Jenkins level), but for Joyce to match/exceed Cabrera, Cabrera would have to fall very, very far from his established performance level for many years.

I don't think that (a) has any realistic chance of happening, and I think all Tiger fans hope that (b) won't happen, even if it means that Joyce becomes a pretty good player.

I hope that Cabrera and Joyce both realize their full potential as Tigers -- Cabrera has a HOF career for Detroit, and Joyce is a good OF for a number of years, maybe even a good starter for a while. If Joyce can exceed these expectations/mild hopes and become a very good player, fantastic.

The fact that Cabrera makes a lot more money than me and everybody else I know combined, as well as everybody on the Tigers, is of virtually no consequence to me. As long as he does well, I'm happy. If he doesn't do well, I still wish him the best.

While I enjoy the potential entertainment value of a rich guy getting his come-uppance as much as the next, I prefer to satisfy my envy and schadenfreude to watching TV and movies. I would rather the rich guys on my favorite teams just play well and help my team win. I'm guessing we all want this.

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OK, I just wanted to know if you were projecting a HOF career for Joyce. Because that is Cabrera's long-established performance level.

If Joyce is going to be comparable to Cabrera, either (a) Joyce will have to raise his game to a HOF level (there is a slight chance that could happen, although to project this would be a joke, hence Tramfan's comment), or (b) Joyce follows his established mediocre level of performance, maybe somewhat better (perhaps a Geoff Jenkins level), but for Joyce to match/exceed Cabrera, Cabrera would have to fall very, very far from his established performance level for many years.

I don't think that (a) has any realistic chance of happening, and I think all Tiger fans hope that (b) won't happen, even if it means that Joyce becomes a pretty good player.

I hope that Cabrera and Joyce both realize their full potential as Tigers -- Cabrera has a HOF career for Detroit, and Joyce is a good OF for a number of years, maybe even a good starter for a while. If Joyce can exceed these expectations/mild hopes and become a very good player, fantastic.

The fact that Cabrera makes a lot more money than me and everybody else I know combined, as well as everybody on the Tigers, is of virtually no consequence to me. As long as he does well, I'm happy. If he doesn't do well, I still wish him the best.

While I enjoy the potential entertainment value of a rich guy getting his come-uppance as much as the next, I prefer to satisfy my envy and schadenfreude to watching TV and movies. I would rather the rich guys on my favorite teams just play well and help my team win. I'm guessing we all want this.

I am still a kid (in a 50 year old body) and I always believe everyone on my team is of HOF potential

and often get frustrated when they don't play at that level (regardless 0f their abilities)

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Or maybe, just maybe, he's a really good baseball player.

But how do know he won't get hit by a bus tomorrow?

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Just so I'm keeping score:

In the last ten days, have we now had a really good thread about Jim Leyland derailed by a guy (possibly a created character) boasting about his strategical superiority and a really good thread about Matt Joyce derailed by a guy Hellbent on making the point that since tomorrow's not promised Matt Joyce might have a better career than Miguel Cabrera?

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