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Mschottey1985

3-10 Mock

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The role of the fullback in the league has once again morphed. 10 years ago both Hillis and Schmitt would've been picked in the top 100 picks of the draft. The versatile FB with decent speed for the size and good hands is nearly a thing of the past . The vast majority of NFL teams want their FB to do nothing but be a blocker. On average, they barely get any touches these days and that's even includes the old fullback staples of short yardage and goalline. The latest schemes have really dummied up this position. As odd as it sounds, the added talent of all 3 of these guys may actually hurt their draft stock.

Those are very good points. I think they will still get drafted in that 5th round range because if a team doesnt value their offensive capabilities, they are still good traditional FB blockers. But some teams, granted not necessarily a lot of them, might like the offensive upside and place stock in that. Think Cory Schlesinger, he was a good blocking FB and also caught a fair share of balls. Hillis is similar to him in that respect.

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re: the top five picks:

- 1st, you'd be better off asking the player correspondents for those teams. They're the ones who decide what those teams need. Remember, they're ankle deep in their team's message board too.

- I don't think its too high for Gholston. He had a great season was high on everyone's lists (Top 10 or so...pipe dreams about dropping to 15) Then...he worked out. The man's combine helped him more than anyone's this year. He's definitely top-5

- I say Ryan goes to Atlanta too...the only thing I can guess is that their correspondent is in denial.

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TSE, do you know the Lions signed Gaines to be their FB this year? I don't think they'll be drafting one. They should be able to find a blocking TE that they can convert (that seems to be the trend, to bigger FB's) to FB, and stash on the practice squad. The Lions need to draft a returner, whether that's a WR or DB. I'd love to see the Lions draft Dexter Jackson, who's probably the only person who could catch Hester.

Do you see the Lions actively going after a KR in the draft with the re-signing of Cason, or is Cason just going to be brought to camp as a just in case guy and cut again?

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Yeah, its a pretty advanced computer simulation (the guy who runs it has worked for USPS and FedEx running their data centers)

It meshes a team needs matrix over a player ranking profile. It seems simple at first but there are multiple "overrides" like lockout and grab lists. And there are formulas for just how far each team will reach with each pick.

I don't really know how the whole deal shakes out...my job is to make sure the simulation doesn't pick a WR in the first round.

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Do you see the Lions actively going after a KR in the draft with the re-signing of Cason, or is Cason just going to be brought to camp as a just in case guy and cut again?

I know you were asking Cruz, but I thought I'd chime in.

I personal hope we do get a KR, but I don't know if it was Cason's fault we didn't have a return game. Marinelli is VERY conservative when it comes to Special Teams. He would rather start at the 20 every time then give up a single penalty in that unit. Which is a take it or leave it stance. We didn't have horrible field position problems last year...but we didn't have great field position either.

That being said, there are plenty of CB's and RB's with Return experience that would fit multiple needs. I hope its being looked into.

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Will the signing of Tatum Bell change the draft strategy regarding a RB ? I think it might.

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Will the signing of Tatum Bell change the draft strategy regarding a RB ? I think it might.

It won't because we had room for 2 backs, drafting a RB would result in Aveion Cason to be cut rather than Tatum Bell. So think of it as Tatum just took Aveion's job possibly. Who knows, maybe somebody wants to do a deal for one of our other RBs.

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It won't because we had room for 2 backs, drafting a RB would result in Aveion Cason to be cut rather than Tatum Bell. So think of it as Tatum just took Aveion's job possibly. Who knows, maybe somebody wants to do a deal for one of our other RBs.

Since when are there positional player limits?

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Since when are there positional player limits?

I said that signing Tatum Bell won't restrict us from drafting a RB. Or, if you are referring to why cut Cason, that's just a numbers game, we will have a greater need for a roster spot at many other positions ahead of RB if we have a draft pick, KJ, Tatum, and Calhoun. Plus, I'm looking forward to the FB that can also be a RB that we may get.

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I said that signing Tatum Bell won't restrict us from drafting a RB. Or, if you are referring to why cut Cason, that's just a numbers game, we will have a greater need for a roster spot at many other positions ahead of RB if we have a draft pick, KJ, Tatum, and Calhoun. Plus, I'm looking forward to the FB that can also be a RB that we may get.

Two things,

- If they have two RB's who are going to start the season injured theres no reason they wouldn't keep an extra running back on the roster. Also RB's like Cason or whatever draft pick could play special teams and contribute that way.

- The Lions do not, nor will they in the immediate future need a FB. I understand your love for them, I do as well. The Lions do not use them, their offense calls for a multipurpose TE/H-back.

On passing downs we will go either single back with Campbell and Michael Gaines at the TE or put Gaines in the backfield because he is an accomplished blocker.

Don't forget about McHugh or Bradley, Fitsimmons or Owens. They'll be in the mix too.

A FB would be a wasted pick, we have the personnel we need at that position.

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Two things,

- If they have two RB's who are going to start the season injured theres no reason they wouldn't keep an extra running back on the roster. Also RB's like Cason or whatever draft pick could play special teams and contribute that way.

- The Lions do not, nor will they in the immediate future need a FB. I understand your love for them, I do as well. The Lions do not use them, their offense calls for a multipurpose TE/H-back.

On passing downs we will go either single back with Campbell and Michael Gaines at the TE or put Gaines in the backfield because he is an accomplished blocker.

Don't forget about McHugh or Bradley, Fitsimmons or Owens. They'll be in the mix too.

A FB would be a wasted pick, we have the personnel we need at that position.

What RBs do you expect to open the season injured? Even if they had a player injured for the first game, it doesnt warrant keeping Aveion on the roster. And this discussion is really geared to the intent for the season. Is it possible that if a RB gets hurt in the preseason that they might be forced to keep Aveion on as insurance? Yes perhaps. But he wouldnt stick for very long with the RBs that we should ultimately have.

FB --- I completely disagree. The coaches' offense has to assimilate the players that they have on their team, and there's no reason why this team wouldnt need a FB. The top FBs in this draft should be considered as highly likely starters at the FB position. There's nothing that Jon Bradley and Michael Gaines can do that is necessarily better than what these top FBs can do, and they should be able to do it better.

Also, depending on what happens with June 1st cuts and the draft, it might be in the best interest for the Lions to cut or trade Dan Campbell, because we may have more strategic options, and the way that our FA period has gone the Lions are already forced to make June 1st cuts. They need to cut possibly both Kenoy Kennedy and Kalimba Edwards to comply with the salary cap, but instead they may choose to cut Campbell depending how the draft ends up going.

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It would be so un-Lion like to draft an OT in round 1. Is that something this team could afford to do? I'd love Cromartie in round 1 or even Mendenhall. I think we are going to address the run game one way or the other whether it's with a RB or OT or if it's round 1 or round 2. I think you can take it to the bank we will address the running game. Then after that, we have to address stopping the run with another run stopping tackle. But, if you get a chance at Cromartie, that's pretty tempting. He's a game changer on defense also. The name Ray Rice keeps popping up in my mind on offense in the 2nd or 3rd round. He's got the build and the elusiveness that really translates to the NFL . . . maybe even more than Mendenhall in my mind.

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What RBs do you expect to open the season injured?

KJ and Calhoun will probably both be sitting week 1 even if Jones is "ahead of schedule"--its his 2nd ACL tear and the coaches have talked about bringing him back slow.

FB --- I completely disagree. The coaches' offense has to assimilate the players that they have on their team, and there's no reason why this team wouldnt need a FB. The top FBs in this draft should be considered as highly likely starters at the FB position.

I don't know many coaches in the NFL who would do that. Its the ol' Parcells--"if i'm doing the cooking I want to buy the groceries" bit. Changing your gameplan for personnel is something good high school coaches do because you can't pick who your personnel is going to be.

Michael Gaines is considered one of--if not the top--young blocking TE in the league.

Did you play FB? Is your best friend in the draft as a FB? What's with your obsession? You mention is every time a draft thread comes up and you are the ONLY person who has mentioned FB as a need. Especially after the Gaines signing.

I mean this seriously. Drafting a top FB would be a stupid move for the Lions. They are not going to change the offense because a top FB falls to them. A Top FB is persona non grata to this team. Its like asking them to sign a position that doesn't exist. Because in this offense it doesn't.

EVERYTHING they have done has been shift away from traditional TE and FB into H-backs. That means sometimes you take a look at the traditionally "more talented" player and bypass them for someone who fits your system better.

If you're looking for a Fullback, start watching old tapes of Gaines, cause that is what you're going to get. This team has serious holes at a number of positions and less serious holes at many more, and you want them to draft a player at the least impact position besides punter?

When is a fullback supposed to play? Which of our 3-4 quality WR are you taking off the field for a rookie fullback?

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What RBs do you expect to open the season injured?

KJ and Calhoun will probably both be sitting week 1 even if Jones is "ahead of schedule"--its his 2nd ACL tear and the coaches have talked about bringing him back slow.

I don't know many coaches in the NFL who would do that. Its the ol' Parcells--"if i'm doing the cooking I want to buy the groceries" bit. Changing your gameplan for personnel is something good high school coaches do because you can't pick who your personnel is going to be.

Michael Gaines is considered one of--if not the top--young blocking TE in the league.

Did you play FB? Is your best friend in the draft as a FB? What's with your obsession? You mention is every time a draft thread comes up and you are the ONLY person who has mentioned FB as a need. Especially after the Gaines signing.

I mean this seriously. Drafting a top FB would be a stupid move for the Lions. They are not going to change the offense because a top FB falls to them. A Top FB is persona non grata to this team. Its like asking them to sign a position that doesn't exist. Because in this offense it doesn't.

EVERYTHING they have done has been shift away from traditional TE and FB into H-backs. That means sometimes you take a look at the traditionally "more talented" player and bypass them for someone who fits your system better.

If you're looking for a Fullback, start watching old tapes of Gaines, cause that is what you're going to get. This team has serious holes at a number of positions and less serious holes at many more, and you want them to draft a player at the least impact position besides punter?

When is a fullback supposed to play? Which of our 3-4 quality WR are you taking off the field for a rookie fullback?

The FBs in this draft have multi-functional ability. Take Tony Hillis for example, he gives us an extra runner, and extra pass catcher, and he might be one of the best young blocking FBs in the league. And you are wrong about Michael Gaines, he is not considered one of the best blockers. I've chatted with Bills fans who thought he was a so-so blocker only and that he has a lot more upside as a pass catching TE. But if he can block that's great too, you can't get enough good blockers. I want a good FB blocker, a good TE blocker, lots of blockers! I also want lots of runners. The top FBs in this draft can run and block and it adds to our dimensions. The point about the gameplan changing isnt relevant here as most of our offense is already set anyhow. My point is that adding a quality FB in the draft doesnt change anything and Marinelli can easily assimilate them into his offense. Maybe the FB we draft prove hands down that he is vastly superior to Michael Gaines, and then we can have Gaines concentrate on passing, it's just another option.

And to your point about KJ and Calhoun sitting...Another good reason to have a FB that can also run the ball. It's great for depth and great for blocking.

And your point about drafting a FB being a stupid move, is well frankly, ridiculous. The mock I submitted as a sample budgets for a 6th round pick. And if the fact that you are having such a hard time understanding the value of a multi purpose FB isn't enough, it's even worse that you are making a big deal about such a low pick. We could draft a CB with that pick that gets cut, AJ Davis was a 4th round CB and he couldnt even make our sorry roster of CBs! My 6th round pick might be a QUALITY STARTER.

Not to mention if you look at a trade chart, the 1st round pick at 15 is worth 1000 pts, whereas the 6th rounder is worth 22 pts. The 1st round pick is in a sense worth 50x the amount of this pick! And we still have a shot at getting a starter with it! C'mon! And you are having such an issue with this pick, with how low of a value it is, and with the high return it may yield?? Unbelievable.

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You know what else they could get with the 6th round pick? The best punter or kicker in the draft.

You're comments are good if we're talking generally about football. But we're talking about the Lions. They are going to take players that fit there system. They're not going to take CB's who can't help in the Cover-2. They're not going to take a in-box-safety. And they're not going to take a player at a position which they haven't used in years. When everything they have done has shown tendencies to break from the traditional FB.

Unless its the 7th round and Jed Collins is still sitting there then MAYBE as a special teamer...but I don't see why when there will be plenty of CB's/Safeties who could play special teams.

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You know what else they could get with the 6th round pick? The best punter or kicker in the draft.

You're comments are good if we're talking generally about football. But we're talking about the Lions. They are going to take players that fit there system. They're not going to take CB's who can't help in the Cover-2. They're not going to take a in-box-safety. And they're not going to take a player at a position which they haven't used in years. When everything they have done has shown tendencies to break from the traditional FB.

Unless its the 7th round and Jed Collins is still sitting there then MAYBE as a special teamer...but I don't see why when there will be plenty of CB's/Safeties who could play special teams.

How does a FB that can catch, run, and block not fit the system? There is no football system that exists that said player can't fit with.

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How does a FB that can catch, run, and block not fit the system? There is no football system that exists that said player can't fit with.

It doesn't fit a system where the only job of a FB is to block. Think about it as being overqualified if you must. Bulk, toughness, balance, and a low center of gravity are the main skills. Receiving ability and speed aren't needed and may actually get in the way of doing their only job which is blocking on pass and run plays.

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How does a FB that can catch, run, and block not fit the system? There is no football system that exists that said player can't fit with.

A system that doesn't use a FB unless its on the goal line. A system that uses an H-back. A system that is going to spend a lot of time with 3-4 WR on the field and a single back. A system that just signed a guy to play TE/H/FB.

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A system that doesn't use a FB unless its on the goal line. A system that uses an H-back. A system that is going to spend a lot of time with 3-4 WR on the field and a single back. A system that just signed a guy to play TE/H/FB.

Let me ask you this. We know how much Marinelli likes his Tampa Bay experience. If I were to ask Marinelli, "Hey Rod, remember Mike Alstott? Was he a pretty decent player? What if I was to say we had a reincarnation of him and he was a rookie this year, do you think that you could possibly find a roster spot for a guy like that on your squad to help with the running game, and/or passing game?"

What do you think Marinelli would say?

Do you think he would say "No, we couldnt fit a young Mike Alstott on this roster, he doesnt fit my football system"?

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It doesn't fit a system where the only job of a FB is to block. Think about it as being overqualified if you must. Bulk, toughness, balance, and a low center of gravity are the main skills. Receiving ability and speed aren't needed and may actually get in the way of doing their only job which is blocking on pass and run plays.

Overqualified? That's why he's a 6th rounder! Wow.

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Let me ask you this. We know how much Marinelli likes his Tampa Bay experience. If I were to ask Marinelli, "Hey Rod, remember Mike Alstott? Was he a pretty decent player? What if I was to say we had a reincarnation of him and he was a rookie this year, do you think that you could possibly find a roster spot for a guy like that on your squad to help with the running game, and/or passing game?"

What do you think Marinelli would say?

Do you think he would say "No, we couldnt fit a young Mike Alstott on this roster, he doesnt fit my football system"?

He would probably say,

"We just signed a guy--Michael Gaines--we're high on him, he's going to fit our team well. Oh and by the way there are 3-5 fullbacks every year who are just as talented as this group and no one before or after Mike Alstott has had the impact he had on the game as a multifunctional fullback."

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He would probably say,

"We just signed a guy--Michael Gaines--we're high on him, he's going to fit our team well. Oh and by the way there are 3-5 fullbacks every year who are just as talented as this group and no one before or after Mike Alstott has had the impact he had on the game as a multifunctional fullback."

Ok, fair enough.

Well I'm still going to continue on hoping that we get one of those FBs, cause I think it would be a nice addition :)

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You can't win when you're talking to an expert. He knows everything.

LOLz

I read about 5 different forums a day and read multiple scouting sites and newspaper articles. There are only a few people I've found that have actual insight and ability to change my mind about things. (you're one of them Cruzer) None of them claim to be an expert. Usually "expert" means, "I can look back and see exactly what Millen did wrong".

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