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Amir Johnson = Rodman, or Salley, or...?

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Amir Johnson has more of a Salley body, but Salley wasn't very good. Johnson will surpass Salley's level within the next year, Rodman is a different target. I expect Johnson to develop some sort of offensive game, but I wouldn't expect him or anybody to rebound like Rodman.

Just have to see where his will to be great takes him, he's really not comparable to either of those players, except that he's a forward. I keep hoping he turns into Jermaine O'Neal, there are some comparisons that can be made (high schooler, sat the bench, Rasheed's understudy, same body type).

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You are right D, he only played 3 years at SE Ok. St.

That makes his numbers 27.3ppg and 17.1rpg

I didn't see that year 1 was at a CC.

I don't think he does average 15 in the ACC. That doesn't change the fact that those numbers don't scream "very ordinary" regardless of the level IMO.

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well, being that rodman never played high school ball, I'd guess that he probably would have taken a couple of years, but since he was able to excel in the NBA, I'd say yes...he probably would have excelled in the ACC. Are you really making the case that Dennis Rodman is good enough to excel in the NBA but not in the ACC? That's pretty much the worst argument I've ever heard.

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You are right D, he only played 3 years at SE Ok. St.

That makes his numbers 27.3ppg and 17.1rpg

I didn't see that year 1 was at a CC.

I don't think he does average 15 in the ACC. That doesn't change the fact that those numbers don't scream "very ordinary" regardless of the level IMO.

Well it actually makes his numbers 25.7 and 15.7, but close enough.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rodmade01.html

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D,

I'm not saying he would. And never argued as much. I'm arguing that NBA studs wouldn't go to NAIA levels instead of NCAA D1 levels and average 50 points a game. You suggested that.

Do I agree that studs at the NAIA level may have troubles scoring what they did at that level? For the majority absolutely yes. And for Rodman I'd 100 percent agree. But for Jack Sikma. He was clearly above the level of player he saw at the NAIA level yet he never averaged 30 points a game. And probably only a handful ever have. Just because the level is clearly lower, doesn't mean that suddenly you put Jordan in NAIA, he scores 50. He wouldn't. No one has and there have been players in the top 100 in the NBA in NAIA. Sikma probably could do better at the NCAA D1 level it could be argued. He'd been one of probably 3-4 very good players (pending on the school he went to) that would have had to be marked. His scoring average probably wouldn't have been hurt if he went D1. But he proves that even the best can't go to NAIA and put in 35 or 40 points (much less 50) on a regular basis at that level. YOU suggested that. It just isn't how it is or ever has been.

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Stupid *** website I went to didn't add in the CC stats (rightfully so) so my stupid *** subtracted them and refigured.

I still stand by my point.

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Regardless of all this other stuff, I think basically most on here agree that Dennis Rodman excelled during his college career and was by no means average. For the record, people who have average college careers don't make it to the NBA, they don't even make it to an NBA try-out.

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Regardless of all this other stuff, I think basically most on here agree that Dennis Rodman excelled during his college career and was by no means average. For the record, people who have average college careers don't make it to the NBA, they don't even make it to an NBA try-out.

He was average, at best.

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I take that back.

He excelled against horrible competition. Against normal competition he would have had an average career, at best.

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He was average, at best.

I understand it's hard to admit that you're wrong for a second argument in a row...completely understandable.

Unfortunately though, none of your arguments hold any water. There isn't a single person who would agree with you that 25 ppg and 16 rpg would be considered average at any level, but still you're sticking to your guns, and that's admirable, even if it's bull-headed. There isn't a single person who thinks that had Michael Jordan never played high school basketball and then went to an NAIA school would have averaged 50 ppg, but you're sticking to that too. Not quite sure why, but good for you.

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I take that back.

He excelled against horrible competition. Against normal competition he would have had an average career, at best.

What's the weather like in your world of "Ifs and buts"?

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I understand it's hard to admit that you're wrong for a second argument in a row...completely understandable.

Unfortunately though, none of your arguments hold any water. There isn't a single person who would agree with you that 25 ppg and 16 rpg would be considered average at any level, but still you're sticking to your guns, and that's admirable, even if it's bull-headed. There isn't a single person who thinks that had Michael Jordan never played high school basketball and then went to an NAIA school would have averaged 50 ppg, but you're sticking to that too. Not quite sure why, but good for you.

You do realize, that I don't even agree with half the things I say to you, right? You are simply my toy to amuse me and pass time while working.

Oh and btw, its an opinion question. There is no right or wrong.

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no...actually, in this case you're wrong. That's like saying Michael Jordan's career was sub-par. I mean, you can have that opinion, but you're wrong.

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no...actually, in this case you're wrong. That's like saying Michael Jordan's career was sub-par. I mean, you can have that opinion, but you're wrong.

Can you provide the evidence that I am wrong?

No disrespect to DTropp and Blu, but I hardly consider them the final authority on good college careers.

Lets also not forget, being in the minority does not make one wrong. The majority once thought the earth was flat, and look how that turned out.

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NBA players with "marginal offensive ability" who played NAIA ball

Scottie Pippen averaged 17 ppg

Terry Porter averaged 13 ppg

In games where final scores tend to be 75-70, players don't average 50 ppg.

Nice to see someone that has a basic understanding of basketball besides what ESPN tells them.

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Just out of curiosity I'd like to know how many games (TV or personally at it) people here have witnessed at each level. I'm guessing NCAA D1 is too high to consider.

Me?

D2 - not many. Less than 5

D3 - probably about 50

NAIA either level - probably about 15 (NAIA teams playing D3)

JCs - not many probably about 7.

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Just out of curiosity I'd like to know how many games (TV or personally at it) people here have witnessed at each level. I'm guessing NCAA D1 is too high to consider.

Me?

D2 - not many. Less than 5

D3 - probably about 50

NAIA either level - probably about 15 (NAIA teams playing D3)

JCs - not many probably about 7.

I would guess less then 20 for all except JC's. Well, do community colleges count as JC's? My first place on my own was 3 blocks from Mott and I use to go watch their games. Steve Schmidt is a wonderful coach and its beyond me why he hasn't got a job at a four year school yet.

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You do realize, that I don't even agree with half the things I say to you, right? You are simply my toy to amuse me and pass time while working.
BTW, I really hope no one else took offense to you calling them all your personal "toy". I mean, I understand that it's just a defense mechanism when you finally realize your completely wrong, but I'm sure Dave doesn't consider himself your "toy" and would probably consider it insulting to be called such.

I know, i know...of course you'll say you just meant me...but last I checked you weren't just discussing this with me. I think you owe a few people an apology.

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BTW, I really hope no one else took offense to you calling them all your personal "toy". I mean, I understand that it's just a defense mechanism when you finally realize your completely wrong, but I'm sure Dave doesn't consider himself your "toy" and would probably consider it insulting to be called such.

I know, i know...of course you'll say you just meant me...but last I checked you weren't just discussing this with me. I think you owe a few people an apology.

Man, it really got under your skin didn't it.

I argue with people all the time about things I don't necessarily agree with. However, I am much more civil with them then I am with you. I like to make you dance.

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Amir Johnson has more of a Salley body, but Salley wasn't very good. Johnson will surpass Salley's level within the next year, Rodman is a different target. I expect Johnson to develop some sort of offensive game, but I wouldn't expect him or anybody to rebound like Rodman.

Just have to see where his will to be great takes him, he's really not comparable to either of those players, except that he's a forward. I keep hoping he turns into Jermaine O'Neal, there are some comparisons that can be made (high schooler, sat the bench, Rasheed's understudy, same body type).

That's what I'm thinking. He's close to, or may surpass these two in several areas over the next year or so (save Rodman's rebounding mania), and the biggest issue is how well he can develop offensive skills.

He's similar to these two when they were starting out with the Piston's, in that he is an energy guy, shot-blocker, rebounder, and dunkenmeister. It'll take at least a year for any separation... IMO. Jermaine O'Neal type would be great!!! We'll see about that over the next few years...

Thanks for staying on-topic Dr Who. As for all you guys going off on Rodman-tangents.... :angry::mad::devious:

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really? so which part was making me dance? Was it when you told Lesgoblu that Rodman had an ordinary college career when adjusted for real NCAA opposition? Or was it when you tried comparing Jordan to Rodman in reply to DTrop? I'm just trying to figure it out?

Really D...no one likes to be wrong, but the "I didn't really believe what I was saying, i was just trying to get to you" argument is sad, even for you.

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That's what I'm thinking. He's close to, or may surpass these two in several areas over the next year or so (save Rodman's rebounding mania), and the biggest issue is how well he can develop offensive skills.

He's similar to these two when they were starting out with the Piston's, in that he is an energy guy, shot-blocker, rebounder, and dunkenmeister. It'll take at least a year for any separation... IMO. Jermaine O'Neal type would be great!!! We'll see about that over the next few years...

Thanks for staying on-topic Dr Who. As for all you guys going off on Rodman-tangents.... :angry::mad::devious:

well, most of us answered first, before we went off into our Rodman rant...:embar:

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really? so which part was making me dance? Was it when you told Lesgoblu that Rodman had an ordinary college career when adjusted for real NCAA opposition? Or was it when you tried comparing Jordan to Rodman in reply to DTrop? I'm just trying to figure it out?

Really D...no one likes to be wrong, but the "I didn't really believe what I was saying, i was just trying to get to you" argument is sad, even for you.

The part where I said I make you dance is what makes you dance. That seems pretty obvious from the last 3-4 posts you have made about it haha. I firmly believe Rodman had a average college career. Again, its a matter of opinion so there is no right or wrong answer. Just like I don't think you are wrong with your answer.

You seem to have a rather scary obsession with me being wrong. It is kind of disturbing to be honest.

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