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Mike

Martz Must Go!

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I think its already been established that the defense sucks. But even if they did play well, we would still lose a lot of games because Martz doesn't run the ball.

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Then, in a snotty hissy fit typical of egomaniacs

I would say you know alot about this type of behavior. How's that working for you?

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Just to be clear, the thing that set me off in this thread was Euphdude's "manure brain" comment. Before that it was the normal disagreements & debates that a message board is supposed to be for. I didn't think there was any reason to insult someone like that. Peace dudes.

At least he didn't steal your old avatar.

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At least he didn't steal your old avatar.

Oh yeah, I forgot you used to have this one. I hope you don't mind if I use it - I'd HATE to hurt your feelings and all.... : )

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what happened to kitna2furrey?

he has nice tinted glasses on youtube. he also loves 2L pepsi colas.

he loves jon kitna, and gives him fine haircuts before each game.

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Oh yeah, I forgot you used to have this one. I hope you don't mind if I use it - I'd HATE to hurt your feelings and all.... : )

Hongbit has feelings? :confused:

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Oh yeah, I forgot you used to have this one. I hope you don't mind if I use it - I'd HATE to hurt your feelings and all.... : )

No problem. It became tarnished for life once it appeared on Mgoblog in reference to Rich Rod. :dead:

Fwiw, I was only on that site as an accident. A simple typo caused by the 'w' and 'g' keys being too close.

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INSIDE THE LIONS

Posted 12/25/07 by Tom Kowalski on mlive.com

ALLEN PARK -- No one is sure how it's actually going to happen, but it appears Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz will not return next season.

While it isn't a done deal yet and there's always the chance for 11th-hour developments, the most likely scenario is that Martz will resign or retire once the season is over.

Martz had high expectations when he took the job two years ago, but things didn't pan out like he had envisioned. Martz believed he could install another version of the "Greatest Show on Turf'' in Detroit, but it didn't happen for a variety of reasons and Martz now realizes it was the wrong time and wrong place to try it.

Offensively, Martz believed the Lions had the talent at the skilled positions to pull it off and a quarterback who had the three qualities -- accuracy, decision-making and toughness -- to make it work.

There are a bunch of reasons why Martz probably won't be back but here are the three biggest:

The offensive line

While Jon Kitna always was firmly in Martz's corner, the offensive linemen were not. One, the linemen believed Martz wasn't just a pass-happy coordinator, but a pass-always type of guy and they don't agree with that philosophy.

The other issue is that in Martz's system, the linemen are almost always in one-on-one pass-rush matchups, especially at the tackles, and that puts undue pressure on the line. The Lions led the league in sacks allowed last year and are leading again this season. That's an embarrassment to the linemen.

The desire to run the ball more led to a rather significant blowup by offensive line coach Jim Colletto earlier this season. It was so intense that Martz agreed to let Colletto handle the design of the running game (but Martz would continue to call all the plays). That fixed things for awhile and the Lions were actually running the ball effectively until the Arizona game -- the one where the Lions finished with minus-18 yards rushing. The linemen -- along with several members of the coaching staff -- were livid with Martz's playcalling in that game and it really marked the beginning of the end.

Defensive problems

When Martz and the offense were clicking -- or even playing just decent -- there weren't any issues. But when the offense struggled to get first downs, especially early in games, it exposed the weaknesses on the defense and led to several blowouts on the road.

Detroit's defense is so vulnerable, especially against the better teams in the league (as we saw in the last seven weeks), that the high-risk, high-reward approach of the offense was leaving them in dangerous positions.

Martz himself

The relationship between Martz and Marinelli always was one of mutual respect but also of high intensity. Both men are absolutely rigid in their beliefs and won't back down from anyone or anything. The hitch is that Marinelli's the boss.

As the other problems began to mount, Marinelli wanted Martz to throttle down the offense a little bit so the other issues could be addressed. When that didn't happen to Marinelli's liking, their relationship suffered. If Martz decides to resign, Marinelli won't be asking him to change his mind.

Know this: If Martz leaves, he'll do so still fully believing that the Lions had the ability to become one of the league's most explosive offensive units.

My opinion is that Martz believes the single biggest setback to what he wanted to accomplish is the losing culture that still resonates in the Lions' locker room. Marinelli has done a good job in trying to get rid of it and, for the most part, he has but it hasn't been completely eradicated. (Which is why you'll continue to see some "attitude adjustment'' roster moves in the offseason.)

Martz never wavered from his guns-blazing, pedal-to-the-metal, let-the-chips-fall-where-they-may attitude, but -- again, my opinion -- he doesn't think the players were fully behind him in that approach. Now, whether it was because the players didn't believe in Martz or the players don't believe in themselves is up for debate.

But, to Martz, it really doesn't matter. The bottom line is that he isn't going to be able to run his offense the way he wants and so he'll step away from the game for a year or two and recharge his batteries.

If Martz eventually resurfaces in the NFL, it won't be contingent on his ability to coach at a high level, it'll be based on whether he finds the right team with the right attitude. The Lions didn't share his love and passion for working the high wire without a safety net so both parties will likely move on.

The Lions will find a quality offensive coordinator -- perhaps they'll hire Chan Gailey or promote Kippy Brown -- but there's going to be that one lingering thought for awhile: What if?

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Kowalski has been burned so many times trying to forecast the moves of Millen or the Fords and here he is out on the ledge again with another rumor that will probably end up being false.

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The relationship between Martz and Marinelli always was one of mutual respect but also of high intensity. Both men are absolutely rigid in their beliefs and won't back down from anyone or anything. The hitch is that Marinelli's the boss.

As the other problems began to mount, Marinelli wanted Martz to throttle down the offense a little bit so the other issues could be addressed. When that didn't happen to Marinelli's liking, their relationship suffered.

"Marinelli's the boss."

Ha ha, yeah, sure. :silly: :silly:

If Marinelli were the boss, if he wanted the offense "throttled down," it would GET DONE. If it "didn't happen to Marinelli's liking," their relationship wouldn't "suffer," it would be over, because Martz would be fired.

However, pretty clearly, Marinelli is not really "the boss."

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"Marinelli's the boss."

Ha ha, yeah, sure. :silly: :silly:

If Marinelli were the boss, if he wanted the offense "throttled down," it would GET DONE. If it "didn't happen to Marinelli's liking," their relationship wouldn't "suffer," it would be over, because Martz would be fired.

However, pretty clearly, Marinelli is not really "the boss."

Even the sportscasters know that Marinelli is not the boss. Martz gets more face time than any other coach on the Lion sideline.

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Even the sportscasters know that Marinelli is not the boss. Martz gets more face time than any other coach on the Lion sideline.

That's because it's too painful to show Marinelli pacing on the sidelines looking like he's walking on hot coals all the time.

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hmmm...

actually some interesting nuggests in here...

1) mike will leave thinking that he was undermined by the little people who didn't get the big picture...egotistical?...paranoid?...or, to paraphrase...he was what we thought he was?...

2) the skill players love this system...but the linemen don't...never did, and probably never will...and without the whole team (including all the coaches) on the same page, it just doesn't work...never has, never will...

3) the problem with the defense is not the design...it is this defense matched with this offense...cover 2 is not designed to be played from 20 pts behind in the first quarter...tampa is "playing" it correctly this year...and they are in the playoffs...

4) the friction began when marinelli did take charge and finally told mike what to do instead of deferring to his genius...apparently he is the boss after all...and i take that from the fact that he will be the one left after martz goes (and not the other way around)...so, what is your "offensive" vision?...as you are now soley the man "in charge", what do "you" want to do?...no more group, co-coaching...this is your team and your vision...now execute it...

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