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Mike

Martz Must Go!

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First, fire Millen and get a GM or whatever title it is that will actually build a more solid offensive line and better defense.

Second, While I do agree that Martz is a mad genius, the whole "abandoning the run" has been a sticking point since he was in St. Louis and has always bugged me. I guess at least here I can say that he hasn't had the talent at RB or OL that he had there. If he doesn't return, who would we get to fill his spot?

Thirdly, to bring up the fact that Tatum Bell was a 1000 yard rusher doesn't say a lot. Olandis Gray was a 1000 yard rusher for Denver and how did that work for us?

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Regardless of if we have the talent or not, you cannot just decide not to run the ball.

Obviously our offense line is worst in pass protection than they are in run blocking.... well thats when we actually run the ball.

But either way not running the ball is just dumb, it does nothing for our passing offense, it absolutely does nothing for the play action pass that is a fan favorite.

Im not saying fire Martz, but he does need to do something different..... like run the ball more than 10 times per game.

Yeah I know its hard to run the ball when your down by 20 in the first half, but why in the world would you go a quick 3 and out and give the ball back to an offense, when your defense is lacking?

I know its frustration setting in for most of us who are waiting for the day when we actually have a good team that we can see be competitive for a whole season.......

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part of the key to that is not going down by twenty so quickly...better special teams play may be the area that needs the most attention...this team has severe problems with coverage on both kickoffs and punts...and it is below average in both types of returns...not the kicker or the punter...but the players/schemes they are using are not working...

again, this may be a system problem...a talent problem...or a depth problem (as most special teamers are not your starters)...but it is a problem that is killing this team week in and week out regardless of the opponent...between poor field position (both offensively and defensively) and the backbreaking touchdowns this unit has contributed to a lot of problems for both the other 2 groups...

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Marshall Faulk was the best in the game when he played for Martz. He'd run for 1,000 and catch for 1,000. Play calling isn't the problem. Talent is the problem. Martz used Faulk very effectively in St. Louis. We don't have a Marshall Faulk in our backfield. Kevin Jones is average at best. And he's coming off an injury where he seems to have lost a step this season while he's recovering.

Besides being a great RB, Faulk had a lot of rushing yards because Vermeil was the HC, and as HC, Vermeil could and often did overrule Martz on playcalls and order running plays. Once Vermeil left the Rams ground game became less and less effective.

Marinelli either does not have the authority or the brainpower to do it. Martz can do whatever the hell he wants.

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First off the defense does stink, but that was what the Lions "wanted" as they have spent the most part of the last couple offseasons improving the offensive side and pretty much neglecting the defensive side.

Second it's hard to run when you are down by 20, but that's not the only time these lack of running issues are hitting the Lions. Check last game. That was a blowout rather quickly but check this.

Lions first possession (first possession of the game)

5 passes, 0 runs.

Lions second possession (trailing 7-0 at time)

8 passes, 2 runs (kick 37-yard field goal)

7-3 Vikings

Lions third possession (trailing 14-3 at time)

4 passes, 0 runs (score a TD)

14-10 Vikings

Lions fourth possession (trailing 21-10 at the time)

3 pass plays, 0 runs (punt)

Lions fifth possession (trailing 28-10 at the time)

6 pass plays, 0 runs (interception near the end of the half)

That's 27 pass plays and 2 run plays during the juncture when this game was still a contest or could still become a contest. Now one could argue that the Lions were relatively effective scoring 10 points with their offense, and that's a point worth contesting, but to say the Lions didn't run the ball because it was a blowout all day isn't really accurate. And compounding that issue is what I've heard Marinelli say since then - that the offensive strategy was to throw the ball because of their run defense. That makes sense, but they really took it to an extreme. Still that said it can be argued that they scored a TD and a field goal in four possessions, and that's not half bad. Entering the fifth they couldn't have felt awful about the passing game and they actually had moved the ball effectively on that fifth possession, until the pick.

On an isolated case of this game I think both sides have merit. Overall, I think the Lions have had many games where they've neglected the run when the game was competitive, putting the offense at a severe disadvantage. And generally while I think both sides have some merit in the last game, I still think the strategy the Lions incorporated when it was still a game, was eventually doomed for failure as proven in past games. They need to get that pass rush to respect the run and they did nothing to do that. Every offense is better with balance.

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Ok, leading off your post by saying that the Lions want their defense to stink is just silly. Of course they don't want their defense to stink.

Secondly, you have great data about the drives. Look at the first 3 drives. The Lions scored points, used up the clock (completed passes use up just as much time as running plays) and kept the defense off the field. However, the Lions' D still stunk, giving up TDs to Minn every time they were on the field. To say that the Lions struggled in this game because they passed too much is flat-out wrong. They struggled in this game because they gave up TDs to Minn every single time Minn got the ball until the 2nd half and by then the game was a blowout. No matter how you twist it you can't blame that on the offense or on passing too much.

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thewave,

I didn't blame the offense. I said that I'd rather them not do what they did because usually such imbalance will usually result in failure. That was more an offense in theory comment than anything. But I hardly blamed the offense for the loss. In fact I think I presented a good case why the imbalance made sense in the coaching staff's eyes.

Secondly,

I put the word wanted in quotes. I think it's obvious why I did that. Obviously they didn't want the defense to stink. But their actions created that. And that's not armchair quarterbacking. They had serious needs on defense for the entire short term if you want to define the short terms as 1, 3 or 5 years and they've come very short towards seriously addressing those needs. That's why I put want in quotes. Their actions defined what the defense is. That can't be refuted. And that's what I was trying to get across with that post.

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When you pass up 3 good LB's to draft a backup QB, voluntarily or not, you are asking your defense to suck.

Do you know David Harris?

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This year for about the fourth year I'm going to go into the draft saying we need these three things first and foremost:

speed on defense - primarily at linebacker and in the secondary

Offensive line

Occasionally, Dline has been on that want list of mine but for the second straight year (at least) I think those other positions are more important.

Let's see if the Lions address these needs not as secondary concerns, but as the PRIMARY concerns and address them as such. I want to see them address and invest the time and money to address those issues as they have continuously imposed their will with wide receivers and at quarterback. My guess based on past history is that they won't do that.

I get the gut feeling when we draft our first pick this year we'll hear the word running back in front of that player.

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Lesgoblue,

They dropped down in the draft to get that backup QB. That's what I find truly amazing.

I didn't even watch the draft. I quit watching it years ago when the Lions kept making stupid pick after stupid pick. I figured it wasn't worth ruining a perfectly good spring day over it. But when I went on the internet and saw they could've had a high pick for the defense but decided not only to make a selection there but to trade down and then pick a quarterback, I was pretty ticked to say the least.

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You have to admire Martz's ability to keep a positive outlook. Some of these comments are just incredible:

from http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2007/12/martz_1.html

and http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2007/12/lions_still_have_talent_at_rec.html

On Shaun McDonald replacing Roy Williams:

"I think Shaun, one-on-one, is really special," said Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz, who coached McDonald in St. Louis. "He can do some things that other receivers can't do so to get him isolated on the outside is pretty neat. He's been there before, he's started out on the outside before when Torry (Holt) was hurt.

On Calvin Johnson:

"Looking at Calvin this week in practice, he's as fresh and moving around the best, really, (since the injury)," Martz said. "He's got some real spring to his step again. (The back injury) really held him up. He plays, but he bangs it up again. When you have a back like that, until it's really dissipated, it's been a little bit hard for him.

On Damien Woody and the running game:

"I'm real excited about where we are. (Damien) Woody was nothing but exceptional at right tackle, we're a little giddy about his performance.

"With what we're doing in the running game, it's starting to jell and come together. KJ is less gimped-up during the week so he's fresher. This is a great spot for us offensively to really take off.''

On the offensive line:

"Those things that were happening earlier in the season are happening less and less. And I think Woody has really given us a shot in the arm. The performance of the offensive line has gotten better every week.''

On losing 4 games in a row:

"You've got to have a short memory in this league, you just do. If you don't, you're destined to repeat what happened last week. The thing that Coach Marinelli has said and maybe it's redundant and you're tired of hearing it, but it is 'one snap at a time.' It's a one snap at a time league. You've got to have amnesia about the game before and the play before. If you can't line up and get excited about that next week, you're going to have problems. And this isn't a lot of fluff, it really isn't. I'm really excited about what I've seen in practice. There are a lot of things that we're getting better at that don't show up, but I know. So let's go play.

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Do you know David Harris?

MLB NY Jets. Went to Michigan. Has had 5 very solid weeks since taking over the starting role. Poszluzny (sp??) and Woodley were also available.

But what's your point?

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I hope the coaches think that way. I certainly believe Marinelli does. And I'm sure Martz is genuine as well. They are doing this because they love it. It's a passion. Most of us could never invest so much of our lives to do what they do. Their jobs are their lives.

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MLB NY Jets. Went to Michigan. Has had 5 very solid weeks since taking over the starting role. Poszluzny (sp??) and Woodley were also available.

But what's your point?

You have man love for David Harris

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You have man love for David Harris

No, I don't. I just wish we could have anyone who would be helping this putrid defense this year. That includes the other two guys I listed, among many others.

Instead, we have a backup QB on IR and still don't have anyone other than Sims that can tackle. And he's iffy sometimes.

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Oh boy here we go again.

(I do wish we could have a thread where the topic didn't get switched to the Stanton pick, but I guess that's LGB's perogative if that's how he chooses to contribute to the board.)

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Someone else brought up defense. You stated the Lions don't "want" the defense to suck. While that is obvious, completely neglecting the defense in every draft tends to give some that impression.

I wish we could have a UM thread that didn't get turned into a UM vs MSU thread. Not saying you are responsible, but that's just how message boards work. I'll be sure and filter myself in the future though. Lord knows, I don't want to make you angry.

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This has nothing to do with UM vs MSU, at least not in my mind. It has to do with complaining about the same thing over and over when there is nothing anyone can do about it. We have debated that pick many times, I don't really feel like doing it again, and yet it continues come up in thread after thread, and I just have to try harder to ignore it, I guess.

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Do you have manure for brains?

What was this supposed to mean, anyway?

(I can see that all the usual suspects are banding together again, and mocking those who dare disagree with their way of thining).

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What was this supposed to mean, anyway?

It means I wonder if that person has fecal matter in place where brain tissue should be.

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