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syrett4

Time to Start Researching the Draft

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...I'd like to see an offensive coordinator who keeps it a lot simpler, can run the ball better, and has a great offensive line...

I think any offensive coordinator would be successful if he had a great offensive line.

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Jake,

That is the confusion of the whole selection of Marinelli. He's a rookie head coach with very limited experience for the job he's taking and they hire an offensive coordinator that has more head coaching experience than the coach himself and has a great ego to boot. He sets up an offense that goes against any sort of philsophy that Marinelli has created and most of the key personel decisions are based on helping the offensive side of the ball instead of the side your rookie coach is comfortable with. To me if you have a guy like that you build around the coach around his strengths to put him in the best possible position to be successful.

Thewave,

This is what is meant by direction. And proper direction will often result in positive results. And if not then at least it makes it easy to review where you went wrong so you can take posititve steps the next attempt. So while such words usually means more wins, that's truly not the definition. The Lions have more wins, but the team's identity and what their long term imposed will is has become more mysterious than ever before. There isn't any consistency that makes sense. Instead of going A to B to C the Lions are doing a little A with some J and mixing in some C and hoping they can do A and C without worring about B. I don't even know what that last sentence is really saying, but it seemingly represents the Lions this year. What are the Lions right now. What will they be in three years if the Lions execute their plan properly?

For pretty much my entire lifetime this has been one very tough organization to figure out.

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Jake,

I think when it comes to developig a football team we hold many of the same principles as being vital. You develop that offensive line and once you've done it you keep on doing it and doing it and doing it. I've never understood getting all the other pieces first and while neglecting the line. It's like having Cecil Fielder up at the plate with a whiffle bat.

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Back to draft talk. I'm not as impressed with J Lehman as Ranger is and would prefer Dan Connor. Connor just seems to be in on every big play.

Cason would probably help this team a lot considering his immense return ability as well as his big play ability in the secondary. The guy with the best return ability though should he decide to come out is DeSean Jackson. It will be interesting to see how high he is drafted since he has the potential to have a Devin Hester-like impact in the return game.

A guy that I like a lot is Chris Long. Howie's son will likely be long gone by the time the Lions pick, but I just felt like mentioning him because in my mind he is without a doubt the best DE in the draft.

Another guy that I like a lot is Steve Slaton. He's only a junior so he might not come out, but he has explosive speed and I think he will be a big-time NFL running back.

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The Lions just have serious issues because they are all running with their head chopped off. They don't have a Lions way of anything. If they do, it involves wide receivers and quarterbacks and building a team through those two units. We've had three coaching staffs in here in how many seasons? Five have coached this team since the turn of the century. One year we trust our GM to make draft decisions. Another year we don't. We hire a rookie coach that knows defense. We use many key draft picks and make key personnel moves that involve mainly the other side of the ball. We have owners that supposedly are demanding top draft picks to be played. We start the season with an offense that was supposed to be designed to be explosive via the passing attack, yet tried to do that without addressing the offensive line issues.

Can we pick things like this with any organization and say there is disorganization? Sure we can. But when you think Pittsburgh there are images of what they are in your mind. When you think New England. Heck you don't even have to talk about only the best teams. When you think Denver (even with their drop this year) you have a sort of grasp of what they are and what they want to do. Even with their problems you have that with the Ravens, making you sense that they can make a turnaround. There's something of substance there and a philsophy there that makes it easier to have that turnaround happen. There hasn't been a committed way of "this is what we do" since the first day I started watching the Lions. That's probably the biggest reason why this organization is so bad. And until it has strong people that change that climate that's going to remain being an issue. That's just how it is. All organizations have issues of what they want to do, but the good ones generally have everyone running in the same direction on that path. Marinelli is trying to do something about it. But he's inexperienced at his position, has an egomaniac for an offensive coordinator and has a GM that still doesn't understand how to do his job well. There are still mysteries to what this organization is and wants to be - even at this time when we are at 6-5 and having our best season since Millen has been around. What are we aspiring to be and how are we working our way towards being that? Honestly I can't answer that question. Can anyone really answer that question. The fact that a 30+ year fan that never misses a game can't come up with an answer for that for most of his fandom career says one of two things. Either 1) I'm a total 100% idiot. Or 2) This team doesn't have any sort of system to do what it wants to accomplish. I think it's the later.

I used to say this about the Tigers. It was true for a long time with them as well. However, then they created an imposed will. They got themselves a managerial staff that set the tone they wanted. Then they started getting arms and arms and arms. Maybe some failed. But they learned to gain an eye for what they wanted and learned how to (for the most part) get what they want. And now that they have that, the Tigers are able to expand off that. Will they be successful? Time will tell. But at least they have an understood will that everyone in that organziation (and even us fans) can see. Even if it fails, I can at least look at what they did and say they had a logical plan that made sense at the time. With the Lions that's truly never been the case and that remains to be true up to today.

Sorry for the long post. I hope it makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. Sadly, I was in a very similar debate about the direction of the Lions all the way back in December 2004.

http://www.motownsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23833

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Thewave,

This is what is meant by direction. And proper direction will often result in positive results. And if not then at least it makes it easy to review where you went wrong so you can take posititve steps the next attempt. So while such words usually means more wins, that's truly not the definition. The Lions have more wins, but the team's identity and what their long term imposed will is has become more mysterious than ever before. There isn't any consistency that makes sense. Instead of going A to B to C the Lions are doing a little A with some J and mixing in some C and hoping they can do A and C without worring about B. I don't even know what that last sentence is really saying, but it seemingly represents the Lions this year. What are the Lions right now. What will they be in three years if the Lions execute their plan properly?

For pretty much my entire lifetime this has been one very tough organization to figure out.

Sounds to me like you are talking philosophy moreso than direction. The difference to me is that direction is to win more games, the philosophy is how to do it. I think the Lions do have a clear philosophy on both sides of the ball. I agree that they don't mesh particularly well, but I'm not sure that a change needs to be made for this. I think they need to continue what they are currently doing, which is getting better players and teaching everyone the current system. LIke I said before, if you go to a new system (philosophy) you are taking a step backwards. I think the current system is working. It is not there yet, but it is working, so I don't think it is time (at the end of this season) to take a step backwards and go to a new system. Just my opinion ...

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wow, sbcaptain2, is that actually trying to add something to this thread that it was originally intended for?

It's been slightly off topic since about the first page ended and it would be nice if the thread were to actually be about draft prospects instead of draft philosophy/previous lions failures

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The Patriots just released DT Kareem Brown, so they now only have 1st rounder Brandon Merriweather to show for their draft (plus SF's first rounder this year) after selecting nine players in the 2007 draft. It wasn't a good draft. There aren't many players selected on Sunday (fourth round and later) still in the league. The Lions did well to get what they did on the first day last year, and might have come out with as good a take as anybody in the long run.

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Kiper on the disappointing 2005 draft:

The three backs that came out that year Williams, Brown and Benson, none have established themselves as big time backs. The early part of that draft was tremendously disappointing. You had Alex Smith go No. 1. Pacman Jones at 6. Carlos Rodgers. Mike Williams. The best picks in that draft were midway on and later. Do people really remember some of the guys taken? The best picks in the draft were Demarcus Ware, Shawn Merriman, Jason Campbell, Heath Miller. But you had a lot of players early in that draft that weren't that good. Braylon Edwards has looked good at No. 3 to the Browns.

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The Patriots just released DT Kareem Brown, so they now only have 1st rounder Brandon Merriweather to show for their draft (plus SF's first rounder this year) after selecting nine players in the 2007 draft. It wasn't a good draft. There aren't many players selected on Sunday (fourth round and later) still in the league. The Lions did well to get what they did on the first day last year, and might have come out with as good a take as anybody in the long run.

You can't compare NE's draft with the Lions.

The Patriots are the most talented team in the NFL and have lower draft picks. Based on the talent already on that team, it should be very hard for a draft pick to make that team.

The Lions are one of the least talented teams in the NFL, and always draft very high. Anyone with a football IQ over room temp should be able to draft players that could make this team.

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The Patriots just released DT Kareem Brown, so they now only have 1st rounder Brandon Merriweather to show for their draft (plus SF's first rounder this year) after selecting nine players in the 2007 draft. It wasn't a good draft. There aren't many players selected on Sunday (fourth round and later) still in the league. The Lions did well to get what they did on the first day last year, and might have come out with as good a take as anybody in the long run.

They had 4 selections in the 6th round and 2 in the 7th round. They only had a 1st, 4th, and 5th other than that. You don't expect the 5th-7th rounders to make the Patriots.

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The Patriots just released DT Kareem Brown, so they now only have 1st rounder Brandon Merriweather to show for their draft (plus SF's first rounder this year) after selecting nine players in the 2007 draft. It wasn't a good draft. There aren't many players selected on Sunday (fourth round and later) still in the league. The Lions did well to get what they did on the first day last year, and might have come out with as good a take as anybody in the long run.

Giving you a little more accurate picture of NE's draft. They had a 1st, 4th, 5th, 4 6th's, and 2 7th's.

Clint Oldenburg (5th round) is not in the league.

Justin Rogers (6th round) is on Dallas roster.

Mike Richardson (6th round) was put on NE's injured reserve

Justine Hairston (6th round) is not in the league.

Corey Hilliard (6th round) is on Indy's practice squad.

Oscar Lua (7th round) is on NE's practice squad.

Mike Elgin (7th round) is on Indy's practice squad.

That's 5 guys out of 7 drafted by the Patriots in rounds 5-7 who are in the league in some capacity. Not bad.

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Cruzer,

What is this thing about comparing us to New England all the time.

The other day it was comparing our quarterbacks we draft to sixth-round pick Tom Brady. That wasn't a fair comparison by any stretch. And it actually made you sound rather silly actually.

Detroit: 4 of the top 61 picks, 6 of the top 117 selections.

New England: 1 of the top 126 picks. Average draft position after that 194.3

And I haven't even mentioned the caliber of teams these guys are trying to make.

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Jake,

Good research on that last post. I wouldn't have had the patience to do all that.

I like the 1 pick in the top 126 fact, too while the Lions had 6.

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We always hear you have to wait 2-3 years to see how good your draft was. And that's certainly true. However, at our level I'll argue the progress for some should be more immediate. My co-worker brought this one up.

2005 - Detroit Lions

Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 10 Mike Williams WR USC

2 37 Shaun Cody DE USC

3 72 Stanley Wilson DB Stanford

5 145 Dan Orlovsky QB Connecticut

6 184 Bill Swancutt DE Oregon State

6 206 Johnathan Goddard LB Marshall

Wow, what did that draft do for us? That's three picks in the first 72? You have to work hard to do this bad.

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Cruzer,

What is this thing about comparing us to New England all the time.

The other day it was comparing our quarterbacks we draft to sixth-round pick Tom Brady. That wasn't a fair comparison by any stretch. And it actually made you sound rather silly actually.

Detroit: 4 of the top 61 picks, 6 of the top 117 selections.

New England: 1 of the top 126 picks. Average draft position after that 194.3

And I haven't even mentioned the caliber of teams these guys are trying to make.

 

1 2 (2) Calvin Johnson WR Georgia Tech

2 11 (43) Drew Stanton QB Michigan State

2 26 (58) Ikaika Alama-Francis DE Hawaii

2 29 (61) Gerald Alexander S Boise State

4 6 (105) A.J. Davis CB North Carolina State

4 18 (117) Manuel Ramirez G Texas Tech

5 21 (158) Johnny Baldwin OLB Alabama A&M

7* 45 (255) Ramzee Robinson DB University of Alabama

Johnson- injuries have hurt him

Stanton-IR

Francis- on the roster and hasn't contributed a thing

Alexander-starting and playing well

Davis- on Cleveland's practice squad

Ramirez- is he on the active roster or practice squad?

Baldwin- active roster for Chiefs, been inactive most of the time

Robinson- out of the league

Out of the Lions draft, we have 2 guys contributing to the team even though we had 4 picks in the 1st and 2nd round and the #2 pick overall. Pathetic.

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We always hear you have to wait 2-3 years to see how good your draft was. And that's certainly true. However, at our level I'll argue the progress for some should be more immediate. My co-worker brought this one up.

2005 - Detroit Lions

Rd Sel # Player Position School

1 10 Mike Williams WR USC

2 37 Shaun Cody DE USC

3 72 Stanley Wilson DB Stanford

5 145 Dan Orlovsky QB Connecticut

6 184 Bill Swancutt DE Oregon State

6 206 Johnathan Goddard LB Marshall

Wow, what did that draft do for us? That's three picks in the first 72? You have to work hard to do this bad.

Wow, that's bad.

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Rd Sel # Player Position School

2 37 Shaun Cody DE USC

Wow, what did that draft do for us? That's three picks in the first 72? You have to work hard to do this bad.

I was so pissed when they took Shaun Cody over Khalif Barnes.

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Sagnam,

I stopped watching the draft when they picked Elliss over Stringer. I was never a fan of Luther and maybe this warped it a bit.

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Johnson- injuries have hurt him

Stanton-IR

Francis- on the roster and hasn't contributed a thing

Alexander-starting and playing well

Davis- on Cleveland's practice squad

Ramirez- is he on the active roster or practice squad?

Baldwin- active roster for Chiefs, been inactive most of the time

Robinson- out of the league

Out of the Lions draft, we have 2 guys contributing to the team even though we had 4 picks in the 1st and 2nd round and the #2 pick overall. Pathetic.

If you are going to post this stuff and pass judgement you should at least get your facts right. Manny Ramirez and Ramzee Robinson are both on the Lions active roster (Robinson is not "out of the league" like you say). Ramirez has been active all year and Ramzee Robinson has been on the practice squad and was just elevated to the active roster when Wilson was put on IR.

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