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syrett4

Time to Start Researching the Draft

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You can't expect too much from rookies. That is flawed. You must develop them at a pace. The best thing for Calvin Johnson is that the Lions are being patient with him. Rookie WR's never dominate, it is much easier for a RB to have an immediate impact. But despite the back injury, this has been a productive season for CJ imo. You can't have rookies starting in this league, and you can't depend on them. Hopefully the Lions will draft more backups next year. That is a good thing.

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Case in point is Jonathon Scott. They drafted him, he was a total bust since he didn't play his rookie year, right? Next year he should be 100% ready to start at RT, and that won't be a huge need.

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Case in point is Jonathon Scott. They drafted him, he was a total bust since he didn't play his rookie year, right? Next year he should be 100% ready to start at RT, and that won't be a huge need.

Jonathan Scott was a 5th round pick and played in 13 games/starting 4, Alama-Francis was a 2nd round pick, who can't manage to be activated for a game, big difference.

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Jonathan Scott hasn't established himself as some sort of stud either. For most of the season he couldn't beat out the worst starting lineman in football - or at least in the top 1%. :classic:

Point taken there. They can develop. There's no doubt about it. And with Ramirez that's a legit point. But we had three high picks and only one is seeing the field. And he didn't see the field until it seemed the entire fan base demanded it last week. That's not a positive.

Alma-Francis shouldn't have been selected where he was. They should've waited. And if he wasn't there when they tried to get him where he belonged then that's fine - at least we would've picked a guy that was of value at the spot we selected him. That whole Alma-Francis pick has the feel of we're going to pick him no matter what we have to do - even if it means getting him at a position where we are overevaluating him to get it.

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No he didn't. You thought so. Some didn't. The Lions did. The fact he hasn't even suited up tells us that he didn't warrant that selection. Reality tells us he shouldn't have.

You need a pick like that on a team like this playing now. The fact he isn't is a huge disappointment.

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No he didn't. You thought so. Some didn't. The Lions did. The fact he hasn't even suited up tells us that he didn't warrant that selection. Reality tells us he shouldn't have.

You need a pick like that on a team like this playing now. The fact he isn't is a huge disappointment.

What if he starts in 2009, and becomes pro-bowl caliber? Does he become a bad pick because he wasn't ready as a rookie? Tom Brady wasn't ready, either.

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Who are we comparing Brady too? Alma-Francis or Stanton? DE's picked #58 overall usually at least get activated for games, while QB's in the 6th round behind all-pro's don't. I don't think you can put it any other way, then Alma-Francis has been a disappointment as a second round pick.

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Who are we comparing Brady too? Alma-Francis or Stanton? DE's picked #58 overall usually at least get activated for games, while QB's in the 6th round behind all-pro's don't. I don't think you can put it any other way, then Alma-Francis has been a disappointment as a second round pick.

Alama-Francis, Kalimba Edwards, and Shaun Cody. Wow, is that bad? And Millen was supposed to know defensive talent. Where is it when a QB completes 20 passes in a row and on the stat sheet we had ONE hurry all day. How does that happen?

I still can't believe we've only drafted 8 offensive lineman in 7 years and Raiola and Backus were drafted 7 years ago. We haven't been able to fill in those other 3 spots with solid contributors in 6 drafts. Unbelievable.

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One of the mind-boggling things to me is to think that Mike Furrey is on the bench. He's the most dependable player we have. We had Roy Williams, Mike Furrey, and Shaun McDonald signed at draft time and we don't trade down so we can draft lineman or a defensive back (like almost everybody on this board wanted) but we drafted yet ANOTHER wide receiver (and yes wide receivers take time to develop), Drew Stanton (who they had to change his entire throwing motion and thought was a project), and Alama-Francis (an admitted project). Where was the immediate help in need positions? Weren't we completely depleted on the offensive line and at corner? We could have gotten 3 or 4 immediate impact players if we traded down and drafted wisely. Instead we got Calvin Johnson and benched Mike Furrey. That's the way to address our needs. Just plain dumb.

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knowing nothing about cody other than what i have seen in the nfl i cannot believe that he was drafted on the first day

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Cruzer,

The fact they took a 100 percent project player makes this a bad pick. If he is an All-Pro in 2009, come and talk to me about it. Still, it was a bad selection regardless what happens. We were a team with serious needs. There were players that were expected to play immediately who weren't project players at that pick. You pick them - and that could've been at a variety of positions. It wasn't like we were shackled to that pick. Heck, there's a good shot Alma-Francis would've been available a round later. And right there he looks like a better selection. The Lions needed bodies that could help them now. And players that could've helped them now means they are probably better players and probably have a greater upside. I know you love to analyze drafts. I don't. Heck, I don't have a clue who anyone is for the most part until I read some info. Everything I read about Alma-Francis suggested a project player. I mentioned as much then. I'm not just jumping up and down playing Monday night QB. Looking at our selections you could see only one probably making any impact on this team this year. And that guy was another WR. Now, I'm not saying Johnson was a bad pick. I think he has tremendous upside. I have no real problems with the pick with the exception it certainly wasn't a position of need. But if you make that one you sure as heck better be using those other spots to improve this team NOW. We didn't come close to doing that. We selected another two players that probably won't see the field for at the very least another 1/2 year - and that's being generous. And they probably won't be developed enough to be considered even average at their positions when that does happen. We had immediate needs everywhere. We needed a secondary and another playmaker at linebacker. A DLineman wasn't the worst thing, but it should've been someone that could be in that rotation this year - not expected not to be on the field this year. On offense the only great pressing need (as it has been for ages) was offensive line. I even could've lived with that being addressed.

If I had to list the areas of least pressing need in that draft it would've been this order (at least with higher draft picks)

1. Wide receiver

2. Quarterback

3. Defensive line

(well punter and kicker were two areas you could put on that list as well but we better not have used those selections for those areas).

What did we pick? Wide receiver with the first pick. Drop down in the draft for a quarterback that we know won't be on the field until probably after our offensive coordinator is gone. A project lineman - not even a good one. A project lineman.

It didn't take months to see this was a poor draft in the short term. It was there that night. And that's why I tore it apart. And now here we stand at 6-5 hoping we had a better offensive line, wishing we had a better secondary and would be loving a young linebacker that can couple with Sims for a strong tandem for the future. Maybe even a quality running back would've been okay considering Jones' situation. We didn't do any of that. We got three things that we certainly didn't need at the time. There's just no way to spin that as quality drafting.

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Tom Brady? I can't believe I missed that originally. You got to be kidding me. What were New England's needs at the time. Did they have a better nucleus of players surrounding him? But even more important than those questions, what round was he selected? The sixth? Heck, if they got Stanton in the fifth round I wouldn't have minded. If they got Alma-Francis in the fourth round, the he was well worth the risk. Brady was the 199th pick. If you think that example was worthy of this discussion then I seriously have to question your ability to examine a draft and how it should be attacked.

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2004- Best Millen draft, 2 good players 3 scrubs

1 7 7 Roy Williams Texas WR

1 30 30 Kevin Jones Virginia Tech RB

2 5 37 Teddy Lehman Oklahoma LB

3 10 73 Keith Smith McNeese State DB

5 8 140 Alex Lewis Wisconsin LB

6 7 172 Kelly Butler Purdue T

I disagree on this one. Keith Smith and Alex Lewis are not scrubs. One is a serviceable 2nd/nickel CB and decent value in the 3rd round, the other is a great special teams player and a good value pick in the 5th round.

One of the mind-boggling things to me is to think that Mike Furrey is on the bench. He's the most dependable player we have. We had Roy Williams, Mike Furrey, and Shaun McDonald signed at draft time and we don't trade down so we can draft lineman or a defensive back (like almost everybody on this board wanted) but we drafted yet ANOTHER wide receiver (and yes wide receivers take time to develop), Drew Stanton (who they had to change his entire throwing motion and thought was a project), and Alama-Francis (an admitted project). Where was the immediate help in need positions? Weren't we completely depleted on the offensive line and at corner? We could have gotten 3 or 4 immediate impact players if we traded down and drafted wisely. Instead we got Calvin Johnson and benched Mike Furrey. That's the way to address our needs. Just plain dumb.

I don't think it's as simple as just wanting to trade, there has to be another team willing to give something up. Sure it would have been great to trade down and pick up more players at a better value, but that is true for almost every team in the top 20, every single year.

I agree that the Stanton and Francis picks were ridiculous. I felt that way on draft day, and I believe it even more now.

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I'm not draft expert, but I'd put OL tops on our needs list. That 6-2 start may be enough to keep us from being able to get Jake Long. But I've always felt that OL take a good 3-4 years to develop. Very few make a huge impact early. They need to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

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I'm not draft expert, but I'd put OL tops on our needs list. That 6-2 start may be enough to keep us from being able to get Jake Long. But I've always felt that OL take a good 3-4 years to develop. Very few make a huge impact early. They need to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

The Lions are doing a decent job of nabbing OL talent such as Scott and Ramirez in the mid-late rounds, and hopefully they'll continue to do that. Speed needs to be drafted higher up.

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The Lions are doing a decent job of nabbing OL talent such as Scott and Ramirez in the mid-late rounds, and hopefully they'll continue to do that. Speed needs to be drafted higher up.

Ramirez hasn't played yet despite the fact he was a 4th round selection and Scott played out of necessity and has shown to be injury prone. So, the jury is out on whether they did well or not with those guys. Who knows? I do know Victor Rogers, Ben Johnson, Kelly Butler, and Fred Matua didn' t pan out. Why can't we draft a lineman higher than the 4th round? We haven't done that in 6 drafts?

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Ramirez hasn't played yet despite the fact he was a 4th round selection and Scott played out of necessity and has shown to be injury prone. So, the jury is out on whether they did well or not with those guys. Who knows? I do know Victor Rogers, Ben Johnson, Kelly Butler, and Fred Matua didn' t pan out. Why can't we draft a lineman higher than the 4th round? We haven't done that in 6 drafts?

I looked at the 2006 All-Pro AP Offensive Lineman and where they were drafted. 7 of the 10 were drafted in the first round. Millen can keep going after those 5th rounders and see where we go. He drafted Backus in the 1st and Raiola in the 2nd and they've been the only 2 who have stuck in the past 7 drafts.

Shane Andrews 1st (6th)

Jammal Brown 1st (13th)

Willie Anderson 1st (10th)

Olin Kruetz 3rd

Alan Faneca 1st (26th)

Walter Jones 1st (6th)

Jonathon Ogden 1st (4th)

Steve Hutchinson 1st (17th)

Will Shields 3rd round

Jeff Saturday undrafted

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Green Bay's lineman and round:

Clifton 2nd round

Tauscher 7th round

Wells 7th round

Spitz 3rd round

Colledge 2nd round.

3 lineman 3rd round or higher and 2 nice picks late in the draft.

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Ouch, someone calling the Lions OL talent good and late round aquisitions good? Which NFL team was it, that was starting George Foster again? By my recollection Backus/Raiola were drafted in the upper rounds, and they are both probably league average players or below average in Backus case. The Lions have built their o-line through free agents (poorly), they've done an awful job of drafting/developing offensive lineman especially in the late rounds.

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Ouch, someone calling the Lions OL talent good and late round aquisitions good? Which NFL team was it, that was starting George Foster again? By my recollection Backus/Raiola were drafted in the upper rounds, and they are both probably league average players or below average in Backus case. The Lions have built their o-line through free agents (poorly), they've done an awful job of drafting/developing offensive lineman especially in the late rounds.

This link is fascinating. All the Olineman in the first round are playing decent with Joe Thomas really playing well. Patrick Willis is on pace for 173 tackles and a spot in the Pro Bowl. Aaron Ross has been spectacular at CB. Okoye has 4 sacks and is getting better each week.

http://nfl-draft-site.blogspot.com/2007/11/mid-season-2007-nfl-draft-rookie-report.html

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My offensive philsophy...

Building an offensive line is football. I'd worry about that before anything else on the offensive side. Maybe there are better ways to do it, but you sure as heck can't go wrong with that philsophy - unless your lousy at selecting the talent. Selecting fifth round picks for a line isn't going to cut it -especially with the Lions' inability to recognize talent. If you have developed that line and want to continue to impose your will with a line try to do it by getting linemen you think slipped through the cracks in the later rounds. Maybe a 150th pick falling to 165th -get him.

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I was thinking about New England and they hardly need the draft any more. They've drafted guys like Ty Law, Willie McGinnest, Teddy Bruschki, Matt Light, Tom Brady, Ty Warren, Mike Vrobel, Vince Wilfork, Terry Glenn, etc. These guys were and are standouts for 10 years in the league. They built a core that they just fill in around with free agents who all want to go to New England now. Now they have their franchise QB and a core. It's easy now. Then they acquire Randy Moss for a 4th round pick. How does that happen? It's because Randy Moss and other guys respect the organization and flock to it, now. Guys hear Detroit and snicker and laugh. Thank goodness for Marinelli and Martz because they are two of the most respected guys in the league by the players (except Roy Williams) and they are the only reason anyone would come here.

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My offensive philsophy...

Building an offensive line is football. I'd worry about that before anything else on the offensive side. Maybe there are better ways to do it, but you sure as heck can't go wrong with that philsophy - unless your lousy at selecting the talent. Selecting fifth round picks for a line isn't going to cut it -especially with the Lions' inability to recognize talent. If you have developed that line and want to continue to impose your will with a line try to do it by getting linemen you think slipped through the cracks in the later rounds. Maybe a 150th pick falling to 165th -get him.

The only two guys who've been consistently in the lineup and performing decently are Backus (1st round) and Raiola (2nd round). You get what you pay for. This is not bashing Calving Johnson because he's going to be a star but if we drafted Joe Thomas he'd be performing better than Backus right now (and for the next 10 years) and we could have moved Backus to right tackle where he'd have been way better than anybody we have over their. Right tackle isn't nearly as hard as left tackle and I think Backus would have been good over there.

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The only two guys who've been consistently in the lineup and performing decently are Backus (1st round) and Raiola (2nd round). You get what you pay for. This is not bashing Calving Johnson because he's going to be a star but if we drafted Joe Thomas he'd be performing better than Backus right now (and for the next 10 years) and we could have moved Backus to right tackle where he'd have been way better than anybody we have over their. Right tackle isn't nearly as hard as left tackle and I think Backus would have been good over there.

I would LOVE to see Backus moved to RT in favor of a 1st round LT pick in '08. However, at least two probable issues exist with that scenario....

1. I'm not aware of any OL that play WR, so Millen probably won't draft one in the 1st round.

2. Backus would probably be non-too-happy switching to RT.

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