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DaYooperASBDT

Why the Dontrelle Love ??

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Once again, I heard some dude on WDFN this morning, basically demanding that the Tigers acquire Dontrelle Willis. I can't see why? Look at his recent stats: http://sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/390827

2005 - Terrific (2.63 ERA, 236 IP, .243 BAA, 10.5 MB9)

2006 - Decent (3.87 ERA, 223 IP, .274 BAA, 13.5)

2007 - Uggggly (5.17 ERA, 205 IP, .294 BAA, 15.0)

Should the Tigers really trade somebody like Maybin for him, and hope that Chuck Hernandez magically fixes him? I just don't get it, somebody please help me here?

I've heard from a couple folks here that he's definitely lost something, could it be simply a mental/mechanics issue? And if that's all, why would our coaches be any better at "fixing" him? Do I ask too many questions ???

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I'm not sold on him either, Yooper. Have to wonder if all those IPs are starting to take their toll a bit.

Maybe it's his .856 OPS he had this season! :ermm:

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And these are numbers in the NL. Imagine his numbers in the AL with the DH and more offensive play? I think everyone is in love with the name. Not realizing the numbers and how they have declined year after year. And if we trade someone like Maybin for this guy I will put in for orders to some where else.

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Let's swap our nut case for their nut case. Bondo for Dontrell. Might not be a good trade but at least we'd see something new.

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I wouldn't say i'm pro Willis, but I do tend to wonder why you're so much against him. In another thread you proved he was better then Robertson and Silva simply with the ">" sign. I will admit the ">" is tough to argue against, but when you go as far as to start to joke about using the ">" sign showing Durbin better then him, I really started wondering why.

His career and last three year stats are better then Bonderman, Robertson, and Durbin. His three year stats versus Rogers are comparable and his three year stats versus Verlander's two year stats are comparable. (I'll concede he does have a bit of a WHIP problem that doesn't seem to show often, at least until this year.)

He is still young too, it's not like this guy is 30 and it's downhill from here. I'm not saying we need to go out and get him, i'm just saying I don't see why there should be a thread dedicated to not getting him.

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Fair enough, to clarify I was looking at 2007 mostly, when making those comparisons with Nate, etc. Perhaps last year was an anomally for the D-Train, but that downward trend still greatly concerns me.

I just get frustrated with knee-jerk proposals, like what I heard on the radio this morning. That's the kind of thinking that led to trading half the team for Juan Gonzalez, without signing him to an extension first. You have to think these things through, not to the point of inaction, but also with a long-term mindset. That's all I'm driving at really.

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Once again, I heard some dude on WDFN this morning, basically demanding that the Tigers acquire Dontrelle Willis. I can't see why? Look at his recent stats: http://sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/390827

2005 - Terrific (2.63 ERA, 236 IP, .243 BAA, 10.5 MB9)

2006 - Decent (3.87 ERA, 223 IP, .274 BAA, 13.5)

2007 - Uggggly (5.17 ERA, 205 IP, .294 BAA, 15.0)

Should the Tigers really trade somebody like Maybin for him, and hope that Chuck Hernandez magically fixes him? I just don't get it, somebody please help me here?

I've heard from a couple folks here that he's definitely lost something, could it be simply a mental/mechanics issue? And if that's all, why would our coaches be any better at "fixing" him? Do I ask too many questions ???

And keep in mind that with the better hitting in the AL, his ERA could realistically be a run or so higher! I not only don't want him, I would rebel if DD went after him and traded away our top prospects for him.

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I just get frustrated with knee-jerk proposals, like what I heard on the radio this morning. That's the kind of thinking that led to trading half the team for Juan Gonzalez, without signing him to an extension first. You have to think these things through, not to the point of inaction, but also with a long-term mindset. That's all I'm driving at really.

I think this might be an knee-jerk reaction against the idea. Getting Willis does not necessarily have to be a bad thing, even if the Tigers give up some young talent. Long term we are talking about a 25 year old left-hander that's a couple of years removed from Cy Young runner-up who has been relatively injury free in his 5 years years. A guy who has averaged 33.75 starts and 215.5 IP over the last 4 years, and 32.4 starts and 204.5 IP in his 5 year career. His career league adjusted ERA has been a pretty consistent 4.17 +- 0.19.

While it's true that his numbers have gotten progressively worse over the last three years, I think part of "thinking things through" is if the organization thinks they can help him straighten out whatever his problems are. If they can get him somewhere between what he is now and what he was in 2005 then you have got a pretty good pitcher. Young and durable.

I'm not saying the Tigers need to run out and get Willis tonight. I'm just saying that it would be in the organization's best interest to take a long hard look at what it would take to get him.

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Fair enough, to clarify I was looking at 2007 mostly, when making those comparisons with Nate, etc. Perhaps last year was an anomally for the D-Train, but that downward trend still greatly concerns me.

Understood, as I mentioned I think one could look at Willis' WHIP over the last few years and say 2007 is more of what you should expect, similar to how the Bonderman fans (myself included) have looked at his WHIP over the last few years and stated we should start seeing the results in the ERA. I certainly wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him if it was understood that it was largely due to a salary dump and not a trade that depletes our farm system.

I think this is rather unlikely though as I expect Rogers to be back in uniform for us next year.

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I'm not against the Tigers aquiring Willis but I'm against them trading away their best prospects in order to do so. You're right though, at this point Willis is no better than Bonderman or Robertson.

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The guy won a Cy Young a few years ago. How many have Bondo or Nate won? That's right, none. I agree that selling the farm for him isn't a good idea, but he is certainly worth a look. I would love to see the Tigers get him, he has some good years left in him. I don't think he has fallen off quite yet.

I think he would certainly contribute more to the team than, say, Andrew Miller over the next few years. I'd be ok with a trade like Raburn, Miller + other prospect for Willis.

Then sign Silva, re-sign Rogers.

JV

Bondo

Willis

Rogers

Silva

Bring Robertson out of the pen, maybe set-up, maybe close and bump the rollercoaster to set-up.

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The guy won a Cy Young a few years ago.
So did LaMaar Hoyt. But I suppose most of my anxiety is really over the trade price. Could be a great trade, or another Juan Gone fiasco, if Chuck can't "fix" him.

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There's a lot of talk about how he would be terrible in the AL. I think that's an over generalization IMO. Without saying otherwise, that implies that ALL NL pitchers - simply because they are NL pitchers, would fare worse in the AL.

I've looked and can't find a site that lists PURELY inter-league stats. I'd like to see Willis inter-league stats, year by year, before I'll buy into the belief that he'd be so much worse in the AL.

Not that I'm thinking we should trade for him - but if he were a Free Agent I'd certainly go after him.

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to answer your first question...people use his name because of the pub he got as a rookie...the hat, the leg kick, etc...all got great press...he had a great year and he was a fresh face that the media liked...he has been an average to slightly better than average pitcher since...

but people buy the sizzle not the steak...ask a couple of teams about matt clement and carl pavano...or aj burnett, maybe?...a good year in a media friendly situation will buy you a lot more shelflife than you might think...it's not about actual numerical performance, but percieved results...

especially with the jo average fan that doesn't really know all that much about the game and is just respouting what the last "expert" from the espn monolith tells him is the gods honest truth...and that he can only get on his super special one of a kind wireless deal with the exclusive espn phone...blah, blah, blah...so on and so on...and now back to mike and mike, right after this plug for the onstar hotline...onstar, the only one you need...

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This acquisition all comes down to cost. If the Tigers could get Dontrelle for a coupel low level prospects - do it. However, if the Marlins are asking for high level prospects then take a pass. I think Carlos Silva would have roughly the same impact as Dontrelle would. The question becomes - is it better to give up $$$ and a draft pick, or a couple of prospects.

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The guy won a Cy Young a few years ago. How many have Bondo or Nate won? That's right, none. I agree that selling the farm for him isn't a good idea, but he is certainly worth a look. I would love to see the Tigers get him, he has some good years left in him. I don't think he has fallen off quite yet.

I think he would certainly contribute more to the team than, say, Andrew Miller over the next few years. I'd be ok with a trade like Raburn, Miller + other prospect for Willis.

Then sign Silva, re-sign Rogers.

JV

Bondo

Willis

Rogers

Silva

Bring Robertson out of the pen, maybe set-up, maybe close and bump the rollercoaster to set-up.

I don't think you realize how BAD Willis was last season. Giving up Miller alone straight up for Willis at this point would be a bad move, IMHO. Selling the farm for him would be quite insane. Willis gave up more hits/IP and had a higher pitcher's OPS than some of this forum's favorite whipping boys, such as Grilli & Robertson.

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This acquisition all comes down to cost. If the Tigers could get Dontrelle for a coupel low level prospects - do it. However, if the Marlins are asking for high level prospects then take a pass.

I think this sums it up pretty well for me.

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reasons TO trade for Dontrelle:

1. He's coming off his worst year.....right now he's at his lowest value trade wise

2. Never underestimate the difference playing on a winning team makes

Reason NOT TO trade for Dontrelle

1. Any combination of the words cameron or maybin being involved in the trade

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Andrew Miller for Willis might be worth looking at. High ceiling potential for a young top-notch veteran.

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actually, I've never liked Willis......I mean I like the guy , but watching him pitch I wonder when his arm is going to fall off......I mean even when he was good, his Mechanics were terrible.....

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Here is an interesting rumor from rotoworld.com (they have plenty of them):

Dontrelle Willis (Marlins) - The Marlins hardly fear another fan backlash at this point, so they could deal both Cabrera and Willis in the same winter. They could even pair the two in a single deal if it'd get them the players they wanted from the Dodgers. Still, with Willis' value well down, even in this market, they may figure they're better off holding on to the left-hander, at least until the deadline. Willis isn't due much of a raise of a raise from the $6.45 million he earned in a disappointing 2007 and is under control for two more seasons, so it's worth gambling that he'll stay healthy and rebuild some value.

Possibilities

To Tigers for RHP Eulogio De La Cruz, INF Michael Hollimon and OF Brent Clevlen

To Mariners for OF Adam Jones and C Rob Johnson

To Mets for OF Carlos Gomez and RHP Philip Humber

OK so the question is for EDLC, Hollimon and Clevlen, would you do it? Not saying the Marlins would take the offer but I would do it in a minute if this were true.

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