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MrStrunz

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Yeah. You should've been here when they both were around at the same time. Of course, the Tigers were horrible them so they seemed less unrealistic.

I was here.

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I think Petry did realize his potential. He was an above average pitcher for several years in his prime. He was right up there with Morris, just not as durable. His peak didn't last long because he got injured.
Hopefully Bonderman will be an exception, but throwing a lot of sliders, that does tend to wreck your elbow at some point.

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I don't think it's shtick with TRok. He is pretty knowledgeable about the game and every once in a while he sees something positive. I think he'll be able to see through the dark clouds and notice more positives as he gets older.

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Hopefully Bonderman will be an exception, but throwing a lot of sliders, that does tend to wreck your elbow at some point.

Petry very obviously put a lot of strain of his elbow and was an injury waiting to happen. Bonderman seems much smoother.

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Petry very obviously put a lot of strain of his elbow and was an injury waiting to happen. Bonderman seems much smoother.
Good point. Then there's guys like Ryan and Clemens, who did the "leg work" (sorry) and kept their lower body strong, thus reducing arm strain.

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Inge has been brutal. I would have pinch hit Ramon Santiago for him Saturday in the 4th inning. He should have been benched right after his first AB Saturday. He doesn't look like he's playing with any focus whatsoever and his career as a regular player is on the line now. He definitely deserves to be benched. He's not helping at all. I don't think Inge handles success very well. He's a weird person. It's like he needs his career on the line to perform. Well, it is now.

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I personally think Inge is being benched because of a lack of effort-- not a lack of ability. I don't think he's doing his best or focusing or giving a 100% effort. I think it's a big reason why so many people are ripping him to shreads. He deserves it. I wouldn't have a guy out there who's been giving the effort he's giving right now. In the past, Inge always played hard. Right now, I don't see it. It reminds me of Dmitri Young last year. They are both having the same at bats-- no focus, no intensity, distracted. I wouldn't be surprised if Inge is having some personal problems, also. He's not the same player at the moment. Leyland won't have it and he shouldn't have it. I wish he would have sent a wake up call a while ago like pinch hitting for him in crucial spots.

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His wife did just give birth didn't she? Maybe the kid's up all night crying or his wife is going hormonal and he can't adjust. Never underestimate the power of something going on in your personal life that doesn't involve a scandal. Players are human. Bill James talked about examining Stan Musial's career and never understanding why one bad year stood out in the range he was covering. Turns out his wife had a baby and he wasn't getting any sleep.

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His wife did just give birth didn't she? Maybe the kid's up all night crying or his wife is going hormonal and he can't adjust. Never underestimate the power of something going on in your personal life that doesn't involve a scandal. Players are human. Bill James talked about examining Stan Musial's career and never understanding why one bad year stood out in the range he was covering. Turns out his wife had a baby and he wasn't getting any sleep.

I know I had 2nd baby issues.

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If the pitching talent we have in our system right now pans out the way it's supposed to (major & minor leagues: Verlander, Miller, Jurrjens, Vasquez, Trahern, Porcello, etc., etc.), I'd be overjoyed for Bonderman to become just "an average … 4 starter who strikes a lot of guys out."

The way the Tigers are moving prospects around, I don't think it's impossible Porcello is up next year. I would have thought so except they just brought up a position player with 6 days of AA experience.

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Bonderman's plight seems to be on the order of former Tiger Dan Petry. Always the great potential, but never realized. I do agree with Lee though, he is only 24, but will we say the same thing when he is 25, 26, 27, 28....?

Bonderman throws a lot harder then Petry, and his slider is better as well. Not that he's a better pitcher, but he certainly has a lot more ability then Petry brought to the table. He's more like Shilling, let's hope it doesn't take until he hits 35 to figure it out.

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Inge has been brutal. I would have pinch hit Ramon Santiago for him Saturday in the 4th inning. He should have been benched right after his first AB Saturday. He doesn't look like he's playing with any focus whatsoever and his career as a regular player is on the line now. He definitely deserves to be benched. He's not helping at all. I don't think Inge handles success very well. He's a weird person. It's like he needs his career on the line to perform. Well, it is now.

You know, I wondered if something wasn't right with his recent child. He has been even more useless then normal since then. The pathetic step on the bag for the nonexistant force out. The horrible string of check swing strikeouts, the ball through his legs on a big hop Sunday. He made some horrible play on the basepaths the other day as well, oh forgot to run to second on an easy double. Normally, at least he runs the bases properly and knows when it's a force out and when it's not.

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You know, I wondered if something wasn't right with his recent child. He has been even more useless then normal since then. The pathetic step on the bag for the nonexistant force out. The horrible string of check swing strikeouts, the ball through his legs on a big hop Sunday. He made some horrible play on the basepaths the other day as well, oh forgot to run to second on an easy double. Normally, at least he runs the bases properly and knows when it's a force out and when it's not.

Even at his worst, he always played with energy. He looks dead.

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In analyzing the Tigers funk three numbers stand out to me:

.661, .678 and 7.16

The first is Sheffield's OPS since the All-Star game. The second is Carlos Guillen's. The third is Bonderman's ERA.

The Tigers offense earlier this year was always about the first five guys in the lineup. Now, probably due to nagging injuries, two of these five have been awful since the break (Sheffield has a slugging percentage of .342; Guillen's isn't much better), and the offense has plummented since, especially with Granderson recently joining them. Argue about the bottom half of the lineup all you want, but it was always inconsistent and could never be counted on. Given the injury history of some of the key components of the lineup, and just how dependent on these guys the Tigers were, I never accepted the we-have-enough offense line promoted by the front office (not that there was anything obvious they could have done, although finding more power at first base and a left-handed bat for leftfield really shouldn't have been that difficult, especially during the offseason).

Bonderman's second half has also been bitterly disappointing. If he could have just limited his bad outings to 2-3, which is hardly asking for much from a talent such as him, things wouldn't be quite so dire right now.

This is the truth. Bonderman, Sheff and Guillen. Make Inge a scapegoat but he is what he is, and that hasnt changed in 5 years.

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This is the truth. Bonderman, Sheff and Guillen. Make Inge a scapegoat but he is what he is, and that hasnt changed in 5 years.

That's a good point. But Inge isn't there mentally. Those guys are trying. Well, I know Sheff and Guillen are trying. Bonderman's as screwed up mentally as Inge right now.

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This is the truth. Bonderman, Sheff and Guillen. Make Inge a scapegoat but he is what he is, and that hasnt changed in 5 years.

I agree that those 3 deserve a lot of blame for the Tigers' recent poor play, but their poor performances don't let Inge off the hook. Sometimes guys have to step up and pick up the slack when your stars aren't performing. Inge has gone in the opposite direction. His at bats are not acceptable for a major leaguer right now. I hope he is benched for more than this one game slap on the wrist. Until Raburn shows he can't handle third base, he should be in there every day at third.

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I'm more amazed that they still have a slight chance at the playoffs with the horrible play of late. Injuries are a reality every team faces. We couldn't expect to get lucky on the injury front like last year, particularly when some of the key players are older and injury prone. That's why Dombrowski building a paper thin organization with no depth whatsoever was so devestating for this team.

For the purpose of debate, could you explain your rationale in regards to calling the organization "paper thin"? Also, would you care to give a definition of great depth and what organization is an example of such a definition. Thanks. :square:

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The way the Tigers are moving prospects around, I don't think it's impossible Porcello is up next year. I would have thought so except they just brought up a position player with 6 days of AA experience.
It's not beyond the realm of possibility, as Dwight Gooden debuted at 19, I believe. Maybin is definitely an exceptional talent, so I'm not surprised we're seeing him already. I wasn't expecting to see him until 2008, but perhaps Monroe's struggles forced the issue a bit.

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