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MrStrunz

latest news per danny knobler:

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"Cringe" and "Garbinge" were both very popular around here pre 2006.

yeah... I want to capitialize on the fact that he chooses to commiserate with two of the greatest hitters of all time.

It'd be like me walking up to Tiger Woods in a pro-am complaining about the deep rough. "Guy can't catch a break out here, can he?"

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Let's see how Ryan Raburn handle those Ted Williams esque out pitches, Inge has been getting.

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Sheesh..... I sure wish I had a thesaurus handy to properly put this nonsense into it's rightful perspective.

I think "painfully incorrect" is the phrase you are looking for

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I'm more amazed that they still have a slight chance at the playoffs with the horrible play of late. Injuries are a reality every team faces. We couldn't expect to get lucky on the injury front like last year, particularly when some of the key players are older and injury prone. That's why Dombrowski building a paper thin organization with no depth whatsoever was so devestating for this team.

Is your schtick as tiresome to write as it is to read?

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No Rogers. No Zumaya. Bonderman's inconsistency. Rodney hurt or ineffective most of the season. Maroth flopped. Robertson's really not that good. It's not surprising that the team ERA has taken a major hit.The good news - Our bullpen is finally taking shape, so the relief ERA should begin dropped dramatically.Rotation? Who knows. Robertson's ERA last year was a bit of a fluke, so I wouldn't be surprised if his stays around 5.00 Verlander and Bonderman will be fine. The other two spots appear to be Miller and Jurrgen's to lose, as I can't see :smoker: rushing Rogers back. So I don't hold out much hope for an ERA drop from that group. Perhaps JJ will be a sleeper down the stretch.

Why do you think Bonderman will be fine? He's never had a consistent season. HIs ERA has been below average in this league every year in his career except last year, and last year it was only average.

Bonderman is shaping up to be an average 3 or 4 starter who strikes a lot of guys out. Nothing more. Not that he isn't valuable in that role - especially (knock on wood) because he appears to be very durable) - but it's not what his image seems to be nationally or from some around here.

People seem to be waiting for him to turn into a #1 starter. At this point, I don't know if that is ever going to happen.

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Why do you think Bonderman will be fine? He's never had a consistent season. HIs ERA has been below average in this league every year in his career except last year, and last year it was only average.

Bonderman is shaping up to be an average 3 or 4 starter who strikes a lot of guys out. Nothing more. Not that he isn't valuable in that role - especially (knock on wood) because he appears to be very durable) - but it's not what his image seems to be nationally or from some around here.

People seem to be waiting for him to turn into a #1 starter. At this point, I don't know if that is ever going to happen.

I would agree, except for the fact that he is still 24 and even if pitchers don't have the same predictable career pattern, that is still before his peak.

I just don't see how a groundball pitcher with mid-90's heat, high strikeouts, low walk totals, and a devastating slider can't be one of the best in the league. At times he pitches like it. At some point, he's going to need to do it for a full season though.

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I would agree, except for the fact that he is still 24 and even if pitchers don't have the same predictable career pattern, that is still before his peak.

I just don't see how a groundball pitcher with mid-90's heat, high strikeouts, low walk totals, and a devastating slider can't be one of the best in the league. At times he pitches like it. At some point, he's going to need to do it for a full season though.

I don't want to speak for Buddha, but it seems to me that his post was more of a retort to the idea that "Bonderman will be fine", which at this point is highly debatable.

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I would agree, except for the fact that he is still 24 and even if pitchers don't have the same predictable career pattern, that is still before his peak.

I just don't see how a groundball pitcher with mid-90's heat, high strikeouts, low walk totals, and a devastating slider can't be one of the best in the league. At times he pitches like it. At some point, he's going to need to do it for a full season though.

I'm still fairly optimistic about his future although not as optimistic as I was before the season. I thought he would make progress this season but he hasn't. Statistically, he still has the high strikeout rate, low walk rate and high ground ball rate.

The problem is his he doesn't strand base runners (low LOB%). In some years, that seems to be caused by first inning problems but not every year. Other years, the big innings happen later in the game but he does seem to give up runs in bunches.

There are lots of theories. Some people say he's "mentally weak". I'm not sure what they mean by that but given how many times he has bounced back from rough innings, weak does not seem like the right word. It could be lack of concentration. It could be poor pitch selection. It could be lack of a change-up makes it easy for hitters to guess what he'll throw in a tough spot.

The latest theory is he doesn't throw inside enough. There are lots of theories.

He was not average last year. He had an ERA+ of 111 and if he did that every year, he'd have a good career. That's why this year has been a disappointment. He's just 24. Most people seem to think that's irrelevant but I don't agree. He's still so young that I would give him two more years to get more consistent before I concede that he's nothing but an innings eater.

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If the pitching talent we have in our system right now pans out the way it's supposed to (major & minor leagues: Verlander, Miller, Jurrjens, Vasquez, Trahern, Porcello, etc., etc.), I'd be overjoyed for Bonderman to become just "an average … 4 starter who strikes a lot of guys out."

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I don't want to speak for Buddha, but it seems to me that his post was more of a retort to the idea that "Bonderman will be fine", which at this point is highly debatable.

I get the impression from Buddha's posts that he does not expect Bonderman to become more than an average starter:

Bonderman is shaping up to be an average 3 or 4 starter who strikes a lot of guys out. Nothing more.

He could be right. Edman was simply disagreeing with him.

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I think sitting down Inge for a game or two to send a message is a good idea, but I also thinks he has to be at third the rest of this season. I suspect any extended time with Raburn at third will be a disaster, especially when you consider how many extra base hits Inge saves guarding the line.The pitching staff needs all the help it can get. Add in that Guillens range is reduced, Inge becomes even more important on that side of the infield. We need his defense more than his bat at this time.

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Why do you think Bonderman will be fine? He's never had a consistent season. HIs ERA has been below average in this league every year in his career except last year, and last year it was only average.

Bonderman is shaping up to be an average 3 or 4 starter who strikes a lot of guys out. Nothing more. Not that he isn't valuable in that role - especially (knock on wood) because he appears to be very durable) - but it's not what his image seems to be nationally or from some around here.

People seem to be waiting for him to turn into a #1 starter. At this point, I don't know if that is ever going to happen.

Bonderman's plight seems to be on the order of former Tiger Dan Petry. Always the great potential, but never realized. I do agree with Lee though, he is only 24, but will we say the same thing when he is 25, 26, 27, 28....?

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Bonderman's plight seems to be on the order of former Tiger Dan Petry. Always the great potential, but never realized. I do agree with Lee though, he is only 24, but will we say the same thing when he is 25, 26, 27, 28....?

That is an interesting comparison. Both guys featured a wicked slider.

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If the pitching talent we have in our system right now pans out the way it's supposed to (major & minor leagues: Verlander, Miller, Jurrjens, Vasquez, Trahern, Porcello, etc., etc.), I'd be overjoyed for Bonderman to become just "an average … 4 starter who strikes a lot of guys out."

I'd be overjoyed if Jurrjens, Vasquez and Trahern turn out to be as good as Bonderman. Chances are they won't.

I think Verlander should be much better than Bonderman and already is. Miller? The jury is still waaay out on Miller.

I expect great things from Porcello for some reason. Unless he gets hurt.

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I get the impression from Buddha's posts that he does not expect Bonderman to become more than an average starter:

He could be right. Edman was simply disagreeing with him.

My point was with the idea that Bonderman will be fine. That seems to imply that there is something wrong with him this year as opposed to other years. I don't know if that is true. I've been watching him pitch for a long time and it seems like this year has been the norm, rather than last year, which was a slight uptick above the norm.

So I guess my point was, maybe Bonderman is "fine" right now? Maybe this is what Bonderman is? An average pitcher with a lot of strike outs. There's no guarantee he will ever be anything more than what he is right now. Occasionally brilliant, but usually frustratingly inconsistent.

And I think Bonderman last year was a little above average considering his defense and his slight pitcher's park.

Again, the thing with Bonderman is that his statistics say he SHOULD be dominant. But he's not.

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I'm more amazed that they still have a slight chance at the playoffs with the horrible play of late. Injuries are a reality every team faces. We couldn't expect to get lucky on the injury front like last year, particularly when some of the key players are older and injury prone. That's why Dombrowski building a paper thin organization with no depth whatsoever was so devestating for this team.
And he had such a great organization to start with, too. Please.

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More thoughts:

1. In my mind, I always projected Bonderman to be another Dan Petry. Not great, but good. And at age 24 he could still be good. Yes he's been horrible lately, but sooner or later he always rebounds a bit. So my usage of "fine" was quite vague, perhaps my expectations have been lowered somewhat?

2. Inge's new nickname should be SHOOT (Supreme Hitter Of Our Times), or just call him "Shooter" :cheeky:

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Good news about Inge/Raburn. I actually suggested this to my buddy the other day at Yankee Stadium.

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Again, the thing with Bonderman is that his statistics say he SHOULD be dominant. But he's not.

I think this is mostly caused by always grouping hits and walks together in one inning, this season it's always been his horrible first innings. The classic Bonderman meltdown.

This seems like something that should be correctable, but then again it's been going on for a couple of years now so who knows. If this, whether it's a mental problem, or physical, (Perhaps working out of the stretch early in games bothers him? Who knows) could be fixed then I can still see him as a very good #2 or even #1. As it is now he's just a #3 who pitches like a #1 sometimes and like a minor league on occasion.

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Bonderman's plight seems to be on the order of former Tiger Dan Petry. Always the great potential, but never realized. I do agree with Lee though, he is only 24, but will we say the same thing when he is 25, 26, 27, 28....?

I think Petry did realize his potential. He was an above average pitcher for several years in his prime. He was right up there with Morris, just not as durable. His peak didn't last long because he got injured.

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Jeremy Bonderman IS Javier Vasquez...

Vazquez has had some very good years but it's a decent comparison as far as a pitcher not performing as well as his potential or peripherals. If Bonderman did end up having a career like Vazquez, he would be valuable.

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Well, someone has to carry the torch since TM79 left...

Yeah. You should've been here when they both were around at the same time. Of course, the Tigers were horrible them so they seemed less unrealistic.

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