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Worst Manager In AL Central-Ozzie Guillen?

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The AL central IMO is stocked with good Managers. I know Guillen has won a WS but he comes up last on my list.

1. Leyland

2. Gardenhire

3. Wedge

4. Bell

5. Guillen

Not a bad bunch. What other divisions in MLB compare?

Your thoughts?

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I don't really like Wedge, but I think he is better than Guillen, this year at least, with the respective teams' performances..

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it's tough to say because ozzie has that ring. take away the ring in '05 and no doubt your list is correct.

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it's tough to say because ozzie has that ring. take away the ring in '05 and no doubt your list is correct.

Could not agree with you more. His performance this year and some of last year has been terrible. BUt he did get a ring. How? I dont know. In my opinion, he ran into a great team at the right time.

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The Sox won a ring despite Guillen, not because of him. Once his act got old (halfway through last season) the team began it's steady implosion into the embarrasing farce of a team they've been most of the season.

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Yeah, the whole small ball (smart ball???) nonsense in '05 was ridiculous. They scored runs because they crushed the ball, not because they bunted a lot. Now that the power is gone they can't score runs. I agree that they won in spite of him.

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again, without a ring OZZIE SUCKS!!! right now, on the Madden scale, this is how i'd rank the managers:

Leyland 94

Gardenhire 88

Bell 80

Wedge 76

Ozzie 59

Buddy Bell is a very good manager, he just has no talent and no payroll.

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again, without a ring OZZIE SUCKS!!! right now, on the Madden scale, this is how i'd rank the managers:

Leyland 94

Gardenhire 88

Bell 80

Wedge 76

Ozzie 59

Buddy Bell is a very good manager, he just has no talent and no payroll.

How can you say Buddy Bell is a very good manager and that OZZIE SUCKS? Could you please explain that to me?

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Yeah, the whole small ball (smart ball???) nonsense in '05 was ridiculous. They scored runs because they crushed the ball, not because they bunted a lot. Now that the power is gone they can't score runs. I agree that they won in spite of him.

Ridiculous. They scored alot of runs in 05' because of their ballpark also. They won games because he got guys to buy into playing hard and smart. That lineup and team he's running out there right now is a joke yet they swept the Tigers last night.

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From what I've seen out of Guillen, he doesn't seem to manage his pitching staff all to well

When they won the World Series, he had a bunch of rookies and no names in the bullpen. His bullpen was Cotts, Politte, Marte, Hermanson, Jenks, Vizcaino, and Takatsu. I think he managed them pretty well. They should be on a VH1 episode of Where Are They Now.

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You may not like Ozzie and his big mouth, but I think he's a very good manager. His flaws are how he acts when the game isn't going on. During the game - great manager. Smart guy too. He just has a big mouth and a bad temper. Kind of like the Latin Billy Martin.

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Ridiculous. They scored alot of runs in 05' because of their ballpark also. They won games because he got guys to buy into playing hard and smart. That lineup and team he's running out there right now is a joke yet they swept the Tigers last night.

They won because of starting pitching and power. That whole small ball thing was a farce. They scored a greater percentage of their runs on homers than any team in the league that year.

Sweeping the Tigers yesterday proves nothing. The White Sox have had the crappiest offense in the league all year. They just had a good day yesterday.

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When they won the World Series, he had a bunch of rookies and no names in the bullpen. His bullpen was Cotts, Politte, Marte, Hermanson, Jenks, Vizcaino, and Takatsu. I think he managed them pretty well. They should be on a VH1 episode of Where Are They Now.

He won the WS because his starters stayed healthy all season and posted career seasons. Even Guillen couldn't screw with destiny in '05. The teams top 4 starters are posted ERA's under 4.00 with great secondary numbers:

Buehrle: 16-8 3.12ERA 1.18WHIP 3.73K/BB

Garcia: 14-8 3.87ERA 1.25WHIP 2.43K/BB

Garland: 18-10 3.50ERA 1.17WHIP 2.45 K/BB

Contreras: 15-7 3.61ERA 1.23WHIP 2.01K/BB

That bullpen you mentioned was a classic case of a ton of players catching lighting in a bottle at once:

Cotts: 4-0 1.94ERA 1.11WHIP 2.00K/BB

Politte: 7-1 2.00ERA 0.94WHIP 2.71K/BB

Marte: 3-4 3.77ERA 1.72WHIP 1.64K/BB

Hermanson: 2-4 2.04ERA 1.10WHIP 1.94K/BB (closer)

Jenks: 1-1 2.75ERA 1.25WHIP 3.3K/BB

Vizcaino: 6-5 3.73ERA 1.47WHIP 1.48K/BB

Takatsu: 1-2 5.97ERA 1.60WHIP 2.00K/KK

Buehrle had a career season. Garcia had his best season by a decent margin since 2001. Garland has never come close to matching his 2005 numbers. Contreras had a fluke season he's never come close to matching. Cotts has never even posted an ERA under 4.00 besides '05. Politte never had an ERA under 3.50 in a full season and 2 years later isn't even pitching. Hermanson has never had an ERA under 3.00 besides '05 and is also not pitching anymore. Takatsu isn't even pitching now.

With the exception of Jenks, Marte and Vizcaino ever single pitcher just had a fluke season that they've never really come close to reaching before 2005 or since. I'd give Guillen some credit for this if maybe he was still turning retreads and nobodies into servicable relievers. He didn't do it 2006, and he's not doing it now. I've seen Leyland take the likes of Byrdak, Seay, Grilli last season, even Durbin and make something somewhat useful out of them. I've seen Gardenhire take teams decimated by injuries to key players to the playoffs. To me, Guillen MIGHT qualify as the 3rd best in the division if he could prove that he was a good in-game manager (because he's certainly garbage off the field, creating distractions and getting sent to counseling by MLB). Right now, I've seen Buddy Bell accomplish more with Joe Buck and Gil Meche anchoring a team that I have in 3 season of Ozzie Guillen with Konerko, Thome, Dye, Buehrle, etc. It's a neck-in-neck race right now between Wedge and Guillen for the bottom of the list. Neither guy has proven they can take tough circumstances or sub-par teams and get the most of out them. In fact, they've both done the opposite (Wedge in 2006, Guillen in later 2006-2007)

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Although I hate Ozzie, he won a world series.... can't put him last on my list for that.

The sux have had a ton of injuries this year which is a big reason the sux suck.

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Although I hate Ozzie, he won a world series.... can't put him last on my list for that.

The sux have had a ton of injuries this year which is a big reason the sux suck.

Guillen was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time, to win that WS and he won't win another. He is too much of a bully and hothead, someone else said it best a "Latin Billy Martin", but I'll add without Billy's knowledge of baseball.

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Although I hate Ozzie, he won a world series.... can't put him last on my list for that.

The sux have had a ton of injuries this year which is a big reason the sux suck.

Guillen was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time, to win that WS and he won't win another. He is too much of a bully and hothead, someone else said it best a "Latin Billy Martin", but I'll add without Billy's knowledge of baseball. They suck because their pitching staff has had ERA's over a full run higher than what they had the year they won. They have had injuries, but the abuse they suffered in the drive to that championship is arguably the reason that their staff is where it is at now.

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In my opinion, he ran into a great team at the right time.

Bingo!

It is so clear that everything went perfect for that team that year. You can use that analogy to the 1999 Falcons, who went to the Super Bowl.

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The sux have had a ton of injuries this year which is a big reason the sux suck.

So what happened last year?

Even if Podsednik and Erstad were healthy, there was no guarantee. This goes beyond injuries. Their bullpen reeks and their starting pitching is nothing to be special about.

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I don't really like Wedge, but I think he is better than Guillen, this year at least, with the respective teams' performances..

So if the Tigers had the worst bullpen in baseball, and they batted .235 the entire first half, that's on Leyland?

2004: Lost Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez in the middle of the season...still managed to win 83 games.

2005: The best team in baseball for most of the season...99-win, wire-to-wire season, leads them to 11-1 postseason run.

2006: Their best pitcher has the worst year of his career, and the bullpen is awful...still manages 90 wins.

2007: The offense completely disappears the first half of the season, injuries galore, and has one of the worst bullpens in recent memory (it's funny seeing you guys complain about the Tigers bullpen, just imagine if you had the Sox bullpen). Over the course of their 27-game stretch where they went 5-22, they lead in 21 of those games. And it's still not finished, but I think the second half will be better now that the offense has finally shown signs of life.

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Why does everyone think Buddy Bell is a good manager?

Isnt this the guy who has inked Emil Brown into the lineup just about every day and had Jason LaRue splitting time with John Buck behind the plate? Isnt this the guy who has played Alex Gordon at shortstop and first base this year in addition to his struggles at the plate? Isnt this the guy who insists on keeping Odalis Perez and Scott Elarton in their rotation despite having Greinke and Gobble on the roster in an already solid bullpen? Isnt this the guy who sat Billy Butler for a week when he was first called up because he didnt want to sit Emil Brown or Ryan Shealy?

The man has had one winning season (82-80, the lowest possible winning season W-L record) in nine years and his average Win % for a season is .418.

Buddy Bell: nice guy, lousy manager.

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Guillen was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time, to win that WS and he won't win another. He is too much of a bully and hothead, someone else said it best a "Latin Billy Martin", but I'll add without Billy's knowledge of baseball. They suck because their pitching staff has had ERA's over a full run higher than what they had the year they won. They have had injuries, but the abuse they suffered in the drive to that championship is arguably the reason that their staff is where it is at now.

This is funny...Ozzie is a 'bully' and a 'hothead?' You couldn't be any more incorrect. Name one player that played for the guy and said he disliked him...thank you, come again.

They 'suck' because the bullpen is terrible. They've lost 11 games this year that they had the lead in after the 6th inning. Their offense was non-existent for the entire first half. You know absolutely nothing about why they've been so bad this year, so why are you even trying to make up ****?

I've faced it, the team got old fast. The Tigers aren't getting any younger, they could have the same issues in another year or so.

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This would be my list:

1. Gardenhire

2. Leyland

3. Bell

4. Wedge

5. Guillen

Sorry -- I think Gardenhire has consistently won with the low payroll and limited power. I think Guillen is last because with the talent on the Sox, it should be them and not Cleveland nipping at the Tigers heels.

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Reminds me of the 03 KCR and Tony Pena. In 2003, KCR finished 83-79 (78-84 pythagorean). Berrora (.287 BAVG .332 OBP .451 SLG .783 OPS) was the starting SS and AL ROY. Certainly a "fluke" year for Berrora. People were singing praises for Tony Pena.

Managers of the Year (pythagorean W-L)

97 - Johnson 97 = 94-68, 96 = 85-77 +12

98 - Torre 98 = 108-54, 97 = 100-62 +8

99 - Williams 99 = 92-70, 98 = 94-68 -2

00 - Manuel 00 = 92-70, 99 = 72-89 +20

01 - Pinella 01 = 109-53, 00 = 92-70 +17

02 - Sciosia 02 = 101-61, 01 = 77-85 +24

03 - Pena 03 = 78-84, 02 = 67-95 +11

04 - Showalter 04 = 87-75, 03 = 69-93 +18

05 - Guillen 05 = 91-71, 04 = 84-78 +7

06 - Leyland 06 = 95-67, 05 = 75-87 +20

AL Central Managers 06 vs 05

Leyland 06 = 95-67, 05 = 75-87 +20

Gardenhire 06 = 93-69, 05 = 84-78 +19

Bell 06 = 63-99, 05 = 60-102 (+3)

Guillen 06 = 88-74, 05 = 91-71 -3

Wedge 06 = 89-73, 05 = 96-66 -7

AL Central Managers 07 vs 06 (using 07 pythagorean rate)

Leyland 95-67 vs 95-67 No change

Wedge 89-73 vs 89-73 No change

Gardenhire 86-76 vs 93-69 -7

Bell 75-87 vs 63-99 +12

Guillen 68-84 vs 88-74 -20

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