Jump to content
bigdbron

Tigers trade

Recommended Posts

He's a better every-day option on the field.

But, he's also another guy that can't stand to take a walk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BetMGM Michigan $200 Free Offer - Launching Friday (1/22)

BetMGM Michigan Sports Betting
Michigan online sports betting is launching on Friday, January 22, 2021. Pre-register at BetMGM Sportsbook & Casino and get a free $200 bonus at their online sportsbook & casino with no deposit necessary.

Claim $200 at BetMGM Michigan Now

All those things that Randy did. Or that Randy were criticized for should never be brought up again now that DD is in charge and Randy is not here.

I disagree. We are suffering because of what Randy did, and we still feel the ill affects of his "efforts." It's just like a CEO who made horrible decisions and brought a company's stock down. Even though that guy got canned, the new CEO can't fix overnight what this guy did over a period of years. People are still going to be bitter towards the first CEO. I am still mad Randy Smith took a credible team in 1997 and turned it into mush by trading away/releasing half the team. I've said this over and over and over, so my apologies for repetitiveness, but my friend and I were totally dumbfounded in the manner in which Smith dismantled the team after an improving season in '97. Nothing he did made any sense whatsoever. Sorry dude, I'm still ticked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EwE--

My complaint about Smith is different from yours, and maybe most other people, too. As I see it, Smith's mistake was not in dismantling the 1997 team. which wasn't very good to begin with, but in hanging on to the players that formed the core of the late '90's teams well past their expiration dates.

The 1997 team won 79 games. Most of the players on that team were also on the teams of 1998 and 1999, years in which the Tigers won 65 and 69 games, respectively. The 1998 collapse was alarming because it suggested that the Tigers' decent play the year before may have been the result of overachievement. Then came 1999, another year of failure with basically the same core. It was clear to me at that point that drastic changes were needed, but Smith didn't implement them. That's when he lost me. I came to see him as the sort of fellow who couldn't say, "Oops, I was wrong about these guys. The mix isn't working; I better try something different."

So, rather than trading Easley, Clark, Cruz, Higginson, Palmer, etc. at a point where they still had market value, Smith hung on to them, and in some cases extended their contracts, creating the substantial mess that DD now inherits. He was determined, as it were, to make that Turkey of a team he assembed fly.

Here's what the Tigers' inflielders did in 1999: Clark (31-99.280), Easley (20-65-.266), Cruz (13-58-.284), Palmer (38-100-.263). Those may not be the greatest of numbers, but they do suggest players with at least some market value.

Now, think back to what the Tigers got for Clark and Cruz, and think about what Easley and Palmer are worth today. Ouch. It still hurts.

I don't profess to be baseball brilliant, but after two successive years of miserable play (1998-99), even a fool should have realized that a major house cleaning was needed. Smith's firing in 2002 was overdue for that reason alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The 1997 team won 79 games. Most of the players on that team were also on the teams of 1998 and 1999, years in which the Tigers won 65 and 69 games, respectively.

See, that's where I disagree. My whole point is there were several players from this team who were shipped out that had helped this team make strides in 1997 after a horrible 1996. We were building something.

Fryman was let go, and though some people think he wasn't worth the money he was asking, I do.

Phil Nevin was let go. Yeah, I thought it was a mistake to let him go. Throw that "hind-sight is 20-20" stuff at me all you want, but at the time I thought it was WAY to early to give up on the guy, him being a former #1 draft pick. The guy was only 26 at the time, still thought he should have been given some slack.

We let Melvin Nieves go. I realize his average wasn't that great but the guy had pop in his bat. I also valued him because he was the Braves' prized prospect that they desperately didn't want to part with in the Fred McGriff deal with San Diego in 1993, but relented. I thought he still had something to give Detroit. He had 24 HR and 60 RBI in only 120 games with the Tigers in 1996, and 20 HR and 64 RBI in 116 games in 1997. He retired in 1998 after only 119 at-bats with the Reds, but I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he and his wife had lost one of their twin baby girls the summer previous, and of course I don't know this, but my guess is that he just lost the passion to play after that.

We got rid of Omar Olivares after 1997 as well. Was he a #1 starter? No, he wasn't. He was a dependable starter on a staff that was looking for ANYBODY to start. His 4.70 ERA was high, but he ate up innings and could have been a soild #4 or #5 guy if we had pursued other free agent pitchers. Again, not a difference maker, but another small piece of the puzzle that was taken apart by Randy Smith who just couldn't sit on his hands and let things happen.

Scott Sanders, with a 3-8 record and 5.33 ERA. Terrible stats, but once again, a #4 or #5 we could have used to eat up innings. I realized these two pitchers I mentioned weren't great in the least, but they were better than what we had in 1998.

Bubba Trammell. Stats? Ok, so-so. But the dude had a decent minor league career and was traded away after 44 games in a Tiger uniform.

Willie Blair. 16-8 in 1997. I still can't understand letting him go. He went to Arizona. Was he drafted in the expansion draft or was he traded?

Mike Myers. I didn't think it was a mistake to let him go because he was getting lit up. But I wondered if a decent pitching coach would have been handy might he turned out better. He pitched well after he left Detroit.

Bob Hamelin. 18 HR and 47 RBI and .270 average in only 318 AB's. Ok, I don't know what happened to this guy ok, he sorta fell off the face of the earth, retiring with Milwaukee in 1998. But I didn't quite get why the Tigers got rid of him based on how productive he was for them in so few games. Maybe these guys leave the Tigers and either totally suck or totally do well.

Felipe Lira. Did I cry when he was let go after 1997? I didn't cry, but I though that guy had so much potential, and I just thought if they could only get a coach to straighten his mechanics out......

Curtis Pride got let go. Not a major piece, but a little speedy.

Ok, here's my point. I realize that all these players weren't all good, and that some of these players left Detroit and didn't do much of anything. I think if they would have stayed in Detroit though there is no telling what could have happened. There are so many factors that come into whether a team does well or not. It's not just getting the players with the best stats or whatever, it's more than that. These players complimented each other well, and there was a certain chemistry that was there.

The "core" that is talked about so often came in after this class was let go. These guys weren't all-stars, but a couple of them had all star written all over them and weren't given enough time to bloom in my opinion. THIS core that we had won 79 games after a horrible year in 1996. I thought THIS core, TOGETHER, had a good chemistry, a good nucleus, and things were starting to look up. No, not the individual players in all cases, but the TEAM we had was a nicely snug puzzle put together and it was dismantled by Smith.

My friend Jason and I were big Tiger fans. We just kept shaking our heads, going "WHAT IS RANDY SMITH DOING???" with all of these moves? We finally made progress and now he lets all these people go. Now, take into account, a lot of these players succeeded BECAUSE of Tiger Stadium, and that's why I talk about this TEAM being a solid club, because the pieces of the puzzle fit nicely within the confines of playing 81 games at TS.

Now I've heard about Nevin and him even "admitting" being difficult, but I get sick of seeing players leave Detroit and succeeding elsewhere. I've maintained all along that we need better comunicators in our coaches, better teachers. Garner's boys, as well as Garner himself, had a hands-off approach. So why is anybody shock that Juan E. goes to the Reds and starts doing well? They probably had a guy who helped Juan work the kinks of his batting out and he is doing well now.

You can disagree with me, that's fine, but that is my opinion. But I guess what I am saying is we had the right players for that team. Maybe not the best players, but we had guys who filled their roles very nicely and it meshed well to a team on the rise. You can all think I'm crazy, but that's how I feel. 1997 was the start of the demise. If you remember we were like 78-77 that year and lost like 6 straight to kill our chances of a plus-.500 record. A great season in the last week turned ugly because we didn't reach our goal. I remember, because I checked the box scores everyday. I think we won our final game. I think at that point Randy lost his head and went nuts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Rob Jones

EwE--

My complaint about Smith is different from yours, and maybe most other people, too. As I see it, Smith's mistake was not in dismantling the 1997 team. which wasn't very good to begin with, but in hanging on to the players that formed the core of the late '90's teams well past their expiration dates.

The 1997 team won 79 games. Most of the players on that team were also on the teams of 1998 and 1999, years in which the Tigers won 65 and 69 games, respectively. The 1998 collapse was alarming because it suggested that the Tigers' decent play the year before may have been the result of overachievement. Then came 1999, another year of failure with basically the same core. It was clear to me at that point that drastic changes were needed, but Smith didn't implement them. That's when he lost me. I came to see him as the sort of fellow who couldn't say, "Oops, I was wrong about these guys. The mix isn't working; I better try something different."

So, rather than trading Easley, Clark, Cruz, Higginson, Palmer, etc. at a point where they still had market value, Smith hung on to them, and in some cases extended their contracts, creating the substantial mess that DD now inherits. He was determined, as it were, to make that Turkey of a team he assembed fly.

Here's what the Tigers' inflielders did in 1999: Clark (31-99.280), Easley (20-65-.266), Cruz (13-58-.284), Palmer (38-100-.263). Those may not be the greatest of numbers, but they do suggest players with at least some market value.

Now, think back to what the Tigers got for Clark and Cruz, and think about what Easley and Palmer are worth today. Ouch. It still hurts.

I don't profess to be baseball brilliant, but after two successive years of miserable play (1998-99), even a fool should have realized that a major house cleaning was needed. Smith's firing in 2002 was overdue for that reason alone.

You seem like a smart guy. Maybe you should take over as GM of the Tigers. I'm sure you would do a much better job.:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You may not believe this, but if we could've had our collective heads made in to one GM, that GM would be infinitely superior to Randy Smith when it comes to strictly personell matters. He dismantled all talent that was here and traded it for crap. Translation? He was duped, several times over, by smarter, more competent General Managers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Willie Blair. 16-8 in 1997. I still can't understand letting him go. He went to Arizona. Was he drafted in the expansion draft or was he traded?

Blair left in free agency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For losing Blair, the Tigers received a sandwich pick in the '98 draft (Cornejo); and a 2d round pick (Pettyjohn). I'd make that deal 100 times. The Tigers need to have that happen more often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But left because no effort was made to keep him.

Tiger management realized that Blair's 16-8 season was a fluke, and decided not to spend the money on him. Blair proved them right with his performance in AZ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Michigan Sports Betting Offer

Michigan is launching online sports betting and casino apps on Friday, January 22, 2021. These top Michigan sportsbooks have pre-launch bonus offers. No deposit is required. Terms and conditions apply.

BetRivers Michigan - If you sign up at BetRivers Michigan now, you will receive $50 in free bets to use one their online sportsbook & casino

Click Here to claim $50 at BetRivers Michigan For Signing Up Now

FanDuel Michigan - If you register now before FanDuel launches in January, you will receive $100 to use at their sportsbook app & online casino.

Click Here to claim $100 at FanDuel Michigan For Registering Now

BetMGM Michigan - If you sign up early at BetMGM Michigan before launch, you will receive $200 in free bets to use at their online casino & sportsbook

Click Here to claim $200 at BetRivers Michigan For Signing Up Early

   


×
×
  • Create New...