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Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame - 1995 Elections

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This is also the first class in which one of the would-be candidates is still an active player. That player is David Wells. As such he was not eligible for nomination. There is still a chance (however impossibly remote) that he could rejoin the team. Wells will appear on the ballot as soon as he retires.

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People are not voting for managers that won World Championships and sometimes I think there is a substantial reason to do so, even if I have voted for them. I know Dick Tracewski was here for a very long time. There had to be value to that. However, it was as a coach. Someone is going to really have to convince me why a coach should get my vote. I am open to listen to any reasons why Tracewski should be on my ballot. Please explain.

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People are not voting for managers that won World Championships and sometimes I think there is a substantial reason to do so, even if I have voted for them. I know Dick Tracewski was here for a very long time. There had to be value to that. However, it was as a coach. Someone is going to really have to convince me why a coach should get my vote. I am open to listen to any reasons why Tracewski should be on my ballot. Please explain.

Let me just say -- wait for it -- I agree with you 100%.

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People are not voting for managers that won World Championships and sometimes I think there is a substantial reason to do so, even if I have voted for them. I know Dick Tracewski was here for a very long time. There had to be value to that. However, it was as a coach. Someone is going to really have to convince me why a coach should get my vote. I am open to listen to any reasons why Tracewski should be on my ballot. Please explain.

Agreed, there will be serious issues if Tracewski gets more support than a guy like Steve O'Neill, who really should be in by now. I have faith and trust in the committee to keep something like that from happening though.

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We always question the value of the manager when they come up around here. Well, a coach can't be given the same value as a manager. Heck, he wasn't even a pitching coach, which I would give more value to than probably any other coach. I know he was the interim manager a few times. But that holds only limited weight.

Maybe he's less of a candidate than I think he will be. I wondered what people would think and then I saw Moonlight Graham's post in support of him. That made me think maybe I was right. My initial thought was he'll get about 35% on the vote. If one of those people want my vote, again, please try to convince me. I will just listen unless you ask me specific qeestions.

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I too think O'Neill has been sold short. Obviously Jennings and Anderson are the Big Two in terms of Detroit Tigers managers, but O'Neill's resume surely puts him at #3 and there can be no real argument otherwise. I think there is room for three managers in our Hall.

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This class is loaded. It's going to be really hard to narrow down to 5 votes. And that's without even considering the carryovers.

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I'm not sure I'd even vote for Tracewski, I just thought he belongs on a ballot since he spent so much time in a Tiger uniform. When you add up his playing days I think he's got the longest uniformed career.

I'll need some help with Mike Henneman. This is the reverse of the issues we thought we'd face with the newer guys we remember. When I think of him I think of a guy who was garbage when we needed him. He played for bad teams so it's not his fault. His numbers are a lot better than I would have thought they'd be.

I could vote for 10 guys and not include any new pitchers.

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In addition to the names I mentioned earlier, Petry also deserves extra consideration. I just hope there's enough votes to go around to keep some of this ballot's borderline guys around.

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If Hernandez belongs (and I'm one of the 70% of '90 voters that thinks he does), I don't see how Henneman doesn't belong.

Mike never had a season that quite matched Willie's '84 season (although his '88 campaign was incredible) but he was almost as equally effective as Hernandez and pitched nearly 200 more innings for the Tigers. As it is, I've got Henneman's resume rated slightly better than Willie's.

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Who had more impact on the organization historically? If there were a physical Detroit Tiger HOF that had Mike Henneman and not Willie Hernandez, I think it would be laughed at by nearly everybody who visited.

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I don't know what is laughable about it. Henneman was a great pitcher, and the I think the sum total of his Tigers career is probably equal to or a tick better than Willie's. That's no slight on Willie; I think they both belong. I suppose Hernandez has the '84 nostalgia on his side, but I don't really care about that.

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Mickey Tettleton, he was one of those guys you loved to watch, but never seemed to get the respect he deserved.

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Who had more impact on the organization historically? If there were a physical Detroit Tiger HOF that had Mike Henneman and not Willie Hernandez, I think it would be laughed at by nearly everybody who visited.

I would hope not, because over the course of their Tiger careers Mike Henneman was a better pitcher than Hernandez. Both probably belong, but Henneman was pretty underrated in his time here, and frankly I'd rather be right than laughed at.

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Mike Henneman was Todd Jones without the charm. That's not to say he belongs or doesn't belong in our HOF, it's just an observation. When he pitched there were lots of curse words. I'll never forget Buddy Groom's MLB debut in Boston. He had the lead and Henneman gave up a game winning grand slam to Bob Zupcic in the 9th. As he walked off he jus shrugged his shoulders as if to say "Oh well, I got paid today". He was very surly towards the end of his career here. It may have been because that was the time of the labor issues and he was the player rep. He was a jerk in radio interviews on numerous occassions.

One time he did buy all the bleacher seats at Tiger stadium and let people go in for free. Cecil did it earler in the year.

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I should apologize for being a smart ***. I asked for help with Henneman then was a jerk when I got it.

What I found interesting in comparing the two is this: Henneman essentially replaced Willie as the team's closer. If you look at the league leaders in saves each year you see a huge jump in those getting 20+ saves right at the 1988 point. Willie was among the league leaders in 84, 85, and 86. The 1987 Tigers while winning 98 games only had 31 saves all year.

Henneman was our best pitcher during his career and really should have been a starter. Yes there might have been a better pitcher in individual years but who, outside of maybe Wells (I havent' looked) was better in a 3 year span during Hennaman's career here? What a waste to throw out the starters we did from 1989-1995 and leaving him in the bullpen.

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I really emulated Henneman when I was a kid. I had finally finished with tee-ball when Henneman was in his prime and so I wanted to be a closer. Then I found out there aren't closers in Little League when my coach made me be a starting pitcher. I remember being pretty disappointed about that.

That was one of a few hard lessons I learned when I started out playing baseball. The other occurred a couple of years earlier when on the first day of tee-ball practice I was informed that I would not play shortstop. Not then and not ever. Tram was my hero and so that was heartbreaking. My parents apparently didn't know enough about baseball to tell me ahead of time that lefties don't play shortstop.

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Maybe he's less of a candidate than I think he will be. I wondered what people would think and then I saw Moonlight Graham's post in support of him. That made me think maybe I was right. My initial thought was he'll get about 35% on the vote. If one of those people want my vote, again, please try to convince me. I will just listen unless you ask me specific qeestions.

I think I spent all of 3 seconds in my thinking before I posted the "Yep" post.

I don't know the criteria that you all use. Actually I think this is the firsts HOF thread I looked at. It looks like a fun thread. Whatever you guys choose, I hope you are consistent. If you choose to not pick DT because of longivity, think twice about your Carey vote.

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The non-player voting is admittedly a little nebulous. There isn't any kind of science behind choosing the guys who didn't actually take the field. Managers and executives maybe, based on how the team performed over a number of years. Still, it's more of a gut feeling after you've taken into consideration the guy's contribution to the organization. Right now my gut tells me I don't want to vote for a coach. Others will disagree.

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Henneman, Lopez, Hernandez, Benton - by far the relivers are the toughest players to evaluate.

I'm thinking both of the H's belong. I think Benton belongs as well. Lopez was up and down. Hernandez was up and a bit down with each year, but I think people think of him already "down" in 1985 and that really wasn't the case. His 1984 season really was a big reason why the Tigers won it all. Check out game #5 of the World Series and see how much Lopez and Hernandez pitched of that game. That was done more than a few times during the regular season. When relievers of the 1980s hear how tough relievers have it now, they must laugh.

Willie would come in with one out in the eighth (or maybe the seventh) with runners on first and third and a one-run lead and we'd hope he'd finish it off. The same was pretty much true for Henneman, except maybe in the eighth only.

I think Willie's a lock. Look at his 1984 game logs. Seeing the stats is one thing. Seeing what he did game by game and sometimes in consecutive days, is simply amazing.

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The 1984 season was a work of magic. Obviously, I wasn't around yet at that point, but it was one of the better relief seasons off all-time. I will admit that I did not vote for him last time, and don't plan on voting for him this time. Both times he's been sixth on my ballot (last time he was tied with Kemp, and I wanted to make sure Kemp got some votes).

Barring some shenanigans this time around, I plan to vote for Willie in 2000 and 2005 if need be.

On dt's point about emulating Henneman. In t-ball and coach pitch league, which for me was the early 90's, I copied off of Phillips and Tettleton. Crouching to shrink a strikezone that didn't exist, and other atbats holding the bat with a wad of Big League chew. They were incredible, overlooked players in their time here. Both are top 10 in the Tigers career OBP list, which Phillips complimented with speed and defense, Tettleton with amazing power. My childhood biases aside, both belong in this Hall of Fame. Then again, there are about 8-10 players on this ballot for whom I believe that is true.

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