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Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame - 1935 Elections

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I don't see any way that Bridges isn't a unanimous lock. The guy is the best pitcher in team history outside of Newhouser, and there will only be one player better than him on the '50 ballot (Greenberg). He'll be in, no question.

Schoolboy Rowe is someone I will certainly vote for, but he's sort of at that Fred Hutchinson/Denny McLain type level. Not really in the top echelon of Tigers pitchers.

As for Whitehill, the guy pitched more innings than every Tiger save seven (Mullin, Dauss, Lolich, Newhouser, Bridges, Trout, Morris). Was he dominant? No, but he was an above average pitcher. Good pitcher, tons of innings. He's a lock for me.

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I was kind of surprised at all the love for Whitehill, although being on the team 10 years kind of caught my attention and I do have him down as one to look at more closely. Of the pitchers, George Uhle is impressing me the most. He was in the top 100 pitchers in the baseball Abstract (91 to be exact), and is described as a good hitter. Not sure yet whether or not he will have my vote. ONce I look at all the players in this class, I am going to compare them with my favorites of the holdovers. I am not seeming to be blown away by any of the numbers like I was with Ty Cobb, Harry Heilmann and the like. I am still not satisfied with my research yet on the four from this class that caught my eye.

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Class of 1935 - Tigers Season Statistics

Art Herring


Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1929 23 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 2 1 4 4 2 0 0 0 32.0 38 17 17 0 19 15 1 0 147 0 4.78 4.28 90 1.781
1930 24 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 3 3 23 6 1 0 10 0 77.7 97 54 46 2 36 16 3 1 359 0 5.33 4.79 90 1.712
1931 25 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 7 13 35 16 9 0 12 1 165.0 186 95 79 8 67 64 8 0 744 0 4.31 4.60 107 1.533
1932 26 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 1 2 12 0 0 0 8 2 22.3 25 18 13 2 15 12 1 1 105 0 5.24 4.70 90 1.791
1933 27 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1933.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1933.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 1 2 24 3 1 0 10 0 61.0 61 34 26 6 20 20 1 0 258 0 3.84 4.32 113 1.328

Firpo Marberry


Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1933 34 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1933.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1933.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 16 11 37 32 15 1 5 2 238.3 232 98 87 13 61 84 1 1 990 1 3.29 4.32 132 1.229
1934 35 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1934.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1934.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 15 5 38 19 6 1 14 3 155.7 174 92 79 12 48 64 0 2 683 0 4.57 4.41 96 1.426
1935 36 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1935.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1935.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 0 1 5 2 1 0 2 0 19.0 22 11 9 2 9 7 0 1 89 0 4.26 4.19 98 1.632

George Uhle


Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1929 30 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 15 11 32 30 23 1 2 0 249.0 283 141 113 9 58 100 2 6 1084 1 4.08 4.28 105 1.369
1930 31 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 12 12 33 29 18 1 4 3 239.0 239 110 97 18 75 117 5 3 1005 0 3.65 4.79 131 1.314
1931 32 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 11 12 29 18 15 2 11 2 193.0 190 88 75 10 49 63 4 6 808 1 3.50 4.60 131 1.238
1932 33 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 6 6 33 15 6 1 16 5 146.7 152 84 73 15 42 51 4 1 631 0 4.48 4.70 105 1.323

Earl Whitehill


Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1923 24 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1923.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1923.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 2 0 8 3 1 0 2 0 33.0 22 14 10 2 15 19 3 1 139 1 2.73 3.86 142 1.121
1924 25 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1924.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1924.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 17 9 35 32 16 2 2 0 233.0 260 125 100 8 79 65 13 0 1030 0 3.86 4.10 106 1.455 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1924.shtml#ALmvp"][COLOR=#0000ff]MVP-17[/COLOR][/URL]
1925 26 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1925.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1925.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 11 11 35 33 15 1 2 2 239.3 267 135 124 13 88 83 10 2 1042 0 4.66 4.30 92 1.483
1926 27 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1926.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1926.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 16 13 36 34 13 0 2 0 252.3 271 136 112 7 79 109 8 0 1099 0 3.99 4.06 102 1.387
1927 28 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1927.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1927.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 16 14 41 31 17 3 10 3 236.0 238 110 88 4 105 95 9 2 1037 2 3.36 4.22 126 1.453
1928 29 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1928.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1928.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 11 16 31 30 12 1 1 0 196.3 214 131 94 8 78 93 1 0 890 0 4.31 4.12 96 1.487
1929 30 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 14 15 38 28 18 1 7 1 245.3 267 147 126 16 96 103 3 1 1076 1 4.62 4.28 93 1.480
1930 31 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 17 13 34 31 16 0 3 1 220.7 248 139 104 8 80 109 8 2 983 0 4.24 4.79 113 1.486
1931 32 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 13 16 34 34 22 0 0 0 271.3 287 152 123 22 118 81 5 3 1197 0 4.08 4.60 113 1.493
1932 33 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 16 12 33 31 17 3 2 0 244.0 255 136 123 17 93 81 5 3 1064 0 4.54 4.70 104 1.426

Whitlow Wyatt


Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1929 21 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 0 1 4 4 1 0 0 0 25.3 30 22 19 1 18 14 1 1 121 0 6.75 4.28 63 1.895
1930 22 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 4 5 21 7 2 0 12 2 85.7 76 41 34 6 35 68 3 2 363 0 3.57 4.79 134 1.296
1931 23 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 0 2 4 1 1 0 1 0 20.3 30 23 20 2 12 8 1 2 98 0 8.85 4.60 52 2.066
1932 24 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 9 13 43 22 10 0 10 1 205.7 228 136 115 12 102 82 3 6 925 0 5.03 4.70 93 1.605
1933 25 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1933.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1933.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 0 1 10 0 0 0 6 0 17.0 20 9 8 1 9 9 2 1 81 1 4.24 4.32 102 1.706

Dale Alexander


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1929 26 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 155 626 110 215 43 15 25 137 5 9 56 63 .343 .397 .580 148 363 18 0
1930 27 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 154 602 86 196 33 8 20 135 6 5 42 56 .326 .372 .507 118 305 14 2
1931 28 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 135 517 75 168 47 3 3 87 5 8 64 35 .325 .401 .445 119 230 0 2

Roy Johnson


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1929 26 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 148 640 128 201 45 14 10 69 20 15 67 60 .314 .379 .475 118 304 6 0
1930 27 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 125 462 84 127 30 13 2 35 17 10 40 46 .275 .333 .409 85 189 3 0
1931 28 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 151 621 107 173 37 19 8 55 33 21 72 51 .279 .355 .438 105 272 2 2
1932 29 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 49 195 33 49 14 2 3 22 7 2 20 26 .251 .324 .390 81 76 0 1

Marty McManus


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+

1927 27 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1927.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1927.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 108 369 60 99 19 7 9 69 8 7 34 38 .268 .332 .431 96 159 18 1
1928 28 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1928.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1928.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 139 500 78 144 37 5 8 73 11 13 51 32 .288 .355 .430 104 215 13 1
1929 29 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 154 599 99 168 32 8 18 90 16 11 60 52 .280 .347 .451 104 270 12 1
1930 30 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 132 484 74 155 40 4 9 89 23 8 59 28 .320 .396 .475 118 230 16 2
1931 31 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 107 362 39 98 17 3 3 53 7 3 49 22 .271 .361 .359 87 130 2 2

John Stone


Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1928 22 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1928.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1928.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 26 113 20 40 10 3 2 21 1 0 5 8 .354 .387 .549 141 62 3 1
1929 23 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 51 150 23 39 11 2 2 15 1 1 11 13 .260 .311 .400 82 60 2 0
1930 24 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 127 425 60 132 29 11 3 56 6 9 32 49 .311 .360 .452 103 192 7 1
1931 25 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 147 584 86 191 28 11 10 76 13 13 56 48 .327 .388 .464 120 271 5 2 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1931.shtml#ALmvp"][COLOR=#0000ff]MVP-16[/COLOR][/URL]
1932 26 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 145 582 106 173 35 12 17 108 2 1 58 64 .297 .361 .486 114 283 3 0
1933 27 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1933.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1933.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 148 574 86 161 33 11 11 80 1 4 54 37 .280 .344 .434 103 249 2 2

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Uhle was a good pitcher. Coveleski and Siever, to name two, were measurably better. I put Whitehill's career above all three.

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estrepe,

This is my point. I think you see this as a class where you can add maybe one name (actually I think none) and still have your carryovers. People are going to want to keep their carryovers. Rowe had four very solid seasons in between the injuries. He's going to find it tough to get in I think. Whitehill - maybe two.

I think it's natural to want to keep a few holdovers on that list. You do that nexst list and you are going to see in a few elections people like Rowe, Newsome, Gehringer and York battling it out. It's going to be awfully tough for Rowe to make it, yet at least in my opinion Rowe deserves it clearly more than Whitehill. That's not underestimating the voters. That's just realizing the nature of the voting. I think it's natural for people to think "three on this one and two from the past" or whatever the ratio is. I think this election is a real good chance to clean up loose ends and not throw those in who are marginal candidates (at least in my opinion) at best.

I don't think there are many people that remember this era (or people like me that replay these seasons with games) saying "Man that Whitehill, he had some awesome years."

I know I can say that about Rowe.

I can name 5 seasons that I consider very solid for Whitehill... 1924, 1926, 1927, 1930, and 1931. He had a couple bad ones and a few average ones to go with that. He took on a TON of innings for that staff. I think that this is one case where longevity is very important in my decision process.

Rowe is in 1945. There is one more really weak class between him and the ballot. He has a great shot of being voted in.

Uhle was a good pitcher. Coveleski and Siever, to name two, were measurably better. I put Whitehill's career above all three.

Agreed. Uhle is good but he misses out on my cut off. With only 5 seasons he would have had to have been as good as Siever.

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Class of 1935 - Tigers Season Statistics

Earl Whitehill


Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1923 24 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1923.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1923.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 2 0 8 3 1 0 2 0 33.0 22 14 10 2 15 19 3 1 139 1 2.73 3.86 142 1.121
1924 25 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1924.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1924.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 17 9 35 32 16 2 2 0 233.0 260 125 100 8 79 65 13 0 1030 0 3.86 4.10 106 1.455 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1924.shtml#ALmvp"][COLOR=#0000ff]MVP-17[/COLOR][/URL]
1925 26 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1925.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1925.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 11 11 35 33 15 1 2 2 239.3 267 135 124 13 88 83 10 2 1042 0 4.66 4.30 92 1.483
1926 27 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1926.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1926.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 16 13 36 34 13 0 2 0 252.3 271 136 112 7 79 109 8 0 1099 0 3.99 4.06 102 1.387
1927 28 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1927.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1927.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 16 14 41 31 17 3 10 3 236.0 238 110 88 4 105 95 9 2 1037 2 3.36 4.22 126 1.453
1928 29 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1928.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1928.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 11 16 31 30 12 1 1 0 196.3 214 131 94 8 78 93 1 0 890 0 4.31 4.12 96 1.487
1929 30 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1929.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 14 15 38 28 18 1 7 1 245.3 267 147 126 16 96 103 3 1 1076 1 4.62 4.28 93 1.480
1930 31 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1930.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 17 13 34 31 16 0 3 1 220.7 248 139 104 8 80 109 8 2 983 0 4.24 4.79 113 1.486
1931 32 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1931.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 13 16 34 34 22 0 0 0 271.3 287 152 123 22 118 81 5 3 1197 0 4.08 4.60 113 1.493
1932 33 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1932.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 16 12 33 31 17 3 2 0 244.0 255 136 123 17 93 81 5 3 1064 0 4.54 4.70 104 1.426

I look at those stats and Milt Wilcox comes to mind.

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dt,

Throwing a lot of innings hardly makes me want to vote for someone. If that's the case I'll vote for Tom Brookens. He was a starter for some unknown reason for a ton of years.

I'd argue in six of his nine full seasons he was either very average or below average, leaving three possibly as a bit better. And really two of those seasons weren't very good. Almost every good season he has he has one to nullify it.

I'm not voting for average pitchers into the HOF because they pitched innings. He was on the team in an era when pitching was an issue. He did little to aid that issue except possibly pitch a ton of innings. He's the Milt Wilcox of his era - just that we had better pitchers ahead of Wilcox during most of his career.

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estrepe,

And I only gave him "credit" for two particularly bad seasons. You helped solidify my stance with that post.

How many "below average" seasons are you going to allow a HOFer when he doesn't have anything but almost as many seasons that can be considered very good to balance it out.

1924 and 1927 are solid. But there are seasons that balance those out.

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Throwing a lot of innings doesn't impress me either, unless the pitcher was good. And Whitehill was. Again, dominating? No. But a good pitcher.

Tom Brookens wasn't a good player.

Sure, Wilcox was a similar pitcher. So was Jeff Weaver. Whitehill threw 700 more innings than Wilcox and 1400 more than Weaver. That means something.

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Okay, two of my four are shot down. Make my research job a little easier. Shoot down John Stone and Dale Alexander for me ;) (I do plan to study this out and make my own decision anyway, honest--but all of your insight is helpful)

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I'd be interested in Whitehill's Wins above team and similar stats to see how much he rose above his mediocre teams.

BTW, Yooper, you have McManus' St. Louis stats shown as well.

I'm in the camp, that this class does not really have any candidates that I would consider over at least 5 holdover candidates.

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estrepe,

And I only gave him "credit" for two particularly bad seasons. You helped solidify my stance with that post.

How many "below average" seasons are you going to allow a HOFer when he doesn't have anything but almost as many seasons that can be considered very good to balance it out.

1924 and 1927 are solid. But there are seasons that balance those out.

If someone has 9 seasons, 6 of which are above league average, and he eats up a ton of innings over those seasons I think he is at the correct level.

If I don't vote for Whitehill I won't vote for Rowe. Since he only spent around 6 seasons with the Tigers and 2 of those can be considered average. His career ERA with the Tigers was 4.01 with 1445 ip and an era+ of 114. Whitehill 4.16 2171.3 ip and an era + of 104. They weren't as far apart in career terms as you are stating.

He only had 2 dominating seasons. 1934 and 1935. The rest of them were either average or injury prone.

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dt,

Throwing a lot of innings hardly makes me want to vote for someone. If that's the case I'll vote for Tom Brookens. He was a starter for some unknown reason for a ton of years.

Brookens got a lot of at bats for some unknown reason. Whitehill got a lot of innings pitched because he was good. He was above average more years than he was below average and he was never really bad. Brookens had one decent season in 1980 and that was about it.

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Here are the people he's comparable by age....

Bill Walker (985)

Horacio Ramirez (986)

Tom Browning (970)

Joe Nuxhall (973)

Rick Waits (978)

Jack Kramer (964)

Bruce Hurst (949)

Dick Ruthven (943)

Scott Erickson (937)

His win shares are of a person that pitched a lot of games. And while he pitched enough to make 20 win shares he never did it. In fact when Uhle became a Tiger, Uhle got 16, 23, 19 during his first three years.

1924 16 win shares (tied with Collins)

1925 13 win shares (Dauss had 18)

1926 15 win shares

1927 19 win shares (a good year)

1928 7 win shares

1929 12 win shares (Uhle 16)

1930 14 win shares (Uhle 23)

1931 18 win shares (Uhle 19)

1932 14 win shares

Good pitchers will get higher than this. He has some nice years but he has none in the 20s.

ERA leader (a stat that sheer bulk innings isn't the measure to make it on the leader list)

Top 10s in his career

1933 - sixth.

That's it! And he wasn't even a Tiger. Not one year in the top 10.

Hits allowed - 10th one season (1927)

these numbers scream average pitcher.

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Brookens got a lot of at bats for some unknown reason. Whitehill got a lot of innings pitched because he was good. He was above average more years than he was below average and he was never really bad. Brookens had one decent season in 1980 and that was about it.

This is correct. Even his 3 below average seasons in 1925, 1928, and 1929 were extremely close to average and not really that bad.

Whitehill was a good pitcher. I am surprised he is seeing such resistence.

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Stone and Alexander simply weren't around long enough. If either hadn't been traded, I might consider them. Dale had two pretty decent seasons, then one poor one and was traded the next season.

Whitehill had three seasons that were clearly above the league average, otherwise a good innings eater at or slightly above league average. I probably will vote for him, but I'm thinking Coveleski was better.

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Stone and Alexander simply weren't around long enough. If either hadn't been traded, I might consider them. Dale had two pretty decent seasons, then one poor one and was traded the next season.

Agreed. Neither was around long enough to be a true factor in Tigers history. They would have had to be much better to make up for their short tenure.

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Whitehill was clearly superior to Wilcox. Here's Milt's stats with Detroit:


Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1977 27 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1977.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1977.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 6 2 20 13 1 0 4 0 106.3 96 46 43 13 37 82 1 1 441 1 1 3.64 4.32 119 1.251
1978 28 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1978.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1978.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 13 12 29 27 16 2 0 0 215.3 208 94 90 22 68 132 8 6 907 2 0 3.76 3.89 103 1.282
1979 29 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1979.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1979.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 12 10 33 29 7 0 1 0 196.3 201 105 95 18 73 109 11 4 854 8 0 4.35 4.36 100 1.396
1980 30 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1980.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1980.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 13 11 32 31 13 1 1 0 198.7 201 112 99 24 68 97 6 5 854 5 0 4.48 4.12 92 1.354
1981 31 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1981.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1981.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 12 9 24 24 8 1 0 0 166.3 152 61 56 10 52 79 6 4 686 3 0 3.03 3.77 125 1.226
1982 32 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1982.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1982.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 12 10 29 29 9 1 0 0 193.7 187 91 78 18 85 112 7 5 833 5 1 3.62 4.08 113 1.404
1983 33 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1983.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1983.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 11 10 26 26 9 2 0 0 186.0 164 89 82 19 74 101 4 10 775 6 2 3.97 3.91 99 1.280
1984 34 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1984.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1984.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 17 8 33 33 0 0 0 0 193.7 183 99 86 13 66 119 8 3 814 5 2 4.00 3.92 98 1.286
1985 35 [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/1985.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]DET[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_1985.shtml"][COLOR=#0000ff]AL[/COLOR][/URL] 1 3 8 8 0 0 0 0 39.0 51 24 21 6 14 20 0 2 177 2 0 4.85 4.07 84 1.667

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Nobody is arguing that Whitehill a dominant pitcher for a long period of time.

But Whitehill wasn't an average pitcher. He was an above average pitcher. Not way above average, but above average. And he pitched lots and lots of innings. I am going to reward a good pitcher who threw more innings than all but seven guys in team history.

I guess it all comes down to your own personal tradeoff between longevity and excellence. Whitehill had one of those qualities in spades. In the other half of the equation, his career was a little more modest.

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Here are the people he's comparable by age....

Bill Walker (985)

Horacio Ramirez (986)

Tom Browning (970)

Joe Nuxhall (973)

Rick Waits (978)

Jack Kramer (964)

Bruce Hurst (949)

Dick Ruthven (943)

Scott Erickson (937)

This is a very misleading list. Comparisons by age don't matter unless the players career is still in progress. If you look at his career comparisons, he looks much better:

1. Mel Harder (895)

2. Sam Jones (882)

3. Jerry Reuss (879)

4. Mike Torrez (871)

5. Jamie Moyer (863)

6. Joe Niekro (861)

7. Adonis Terry (861)

8. Chuck Finley (857)

9. Hooks Dauss (856)

10. George Uhle (854)

Of course, even those aren't that useful because the similarity svores are not adjusted for era.

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Whitehill was among the league top 10 in:

IP 4 times

CG 4 times

SO 5 times

SO/IP 5 times

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But he wasn't above average those six seasons. What do you consider above average?

Look at the win shares. He's playing in an era that 20+ isn't that all uncommon. He's getting the work to get it and he NEVER got it. In his limited Tiger years Uhle had a better shot.

Win share rank on team

1924 - tied sixth (collins tied him)

1925 - tied seventh (Dauss beat him)

1926 - sixth (Gibson one WS behind)

1927 - fourth - best pitcher

1928 - tenth - (third pitcher)

1929 - eighth - (second pitcher)

1930 - sixth - (third pitcher)

1931 - second (and Uhle beat him)

1932 - tied sixth (Bridges better, two other pitchers tied)

So he pitched in an era when pitching was an issue and only ONE season can it even be argued he was clearly the best Tiger pitcher for one of these seasons. Many years he wasn't close and a few otehrs it can be argued. And this isn't comparing him as the 3rd best pitcher on a good pitching team. This is more like being the third best pitcher in 1989 or say 1993 (possibly Mike Moore or John Doherty). That's a big difference between being the second or third best pitcher in 1968, 72 or 06.

If people want to vote for him you can. That's fine. But understand you are voting for him being an inning eater more than anything else.

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