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Is it wrong to write off Zach Miner?

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Yeah, I don't like the guy. Irrational as it may be. Atlanta didn't want to give him up, maybe we could ship him back.

Pre All-Star Numbers

Douglass-2.65ERA|1.24WHIP|.250BAA

Z.Miner--2.75ERA|1.21WHIP|.238BAA

Post All-Star Numbers

Douglass-6.27ERA|1.48WHIP|.283BAA

Z.Miner--6.71ERA|1.59WHIP|.307BAA

Stuff/Potential and a couple of bucks will buy you a cup o' coffee. Sean Douglass was in the show at 22 yrs old, so he had potential at one time as well. I think the hitters figured Miner out in the second half.

I'm not going to argue that the numbers aren't similar, I'm just not sure why you cash in your chips on a 24 year old who you control for 2 more years at minimum wage. It's not like they are relying on him for next year.

If they trade him that's fine, it's still providing value, but I think it's way too soon to count him out. He showed me more than Tata did with the Tigers.

Stuff and potential also bought Gary Sheffield.

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I'm not giving up on him. The guy who went 6 - 1 early last summer is still in that body. Others have mentioned the control issue, and if he gets on top of that, he looks like a number 4 or 5 starter. Give it time, in Toledo if necessary.

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Yeah, I don't like the guy. Irrational as it may be. Atlanta didn't want to give him up, maybe we could ship him back.

Yeah, for LaRoche. :classic:

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i see miner as a just-average, ground-ball-out pitcher who needs to be more aggressive. if he has a place somewhere, it's as a starter. i think he's proven that he cannot work well out of the bullpen. in my opinion, i think ledezma has better stuff and a brighter future. i'm usually wrong though!

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Zach Miner...with his 91 mph "heat" and his amazingly linear breaking ball. It's safe to say he sucks. Package him and Crazy Willy in a deal for Adam Laroche. With Bonderman, Verlander, Miller, and Robertson, I think we are solid enough if we can get something decent in return for Miner.

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Well, if Miner can't find a pitch/location to miss bats every once in a great while for a k pitch/high percentage inplay out(which is most likey why he is Zach Miner), I don't see him sticking around by this time next year. To me he seems to be one of those guys who will have intial success but then slowly fade into oblivion.

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I don't think there's any way Maroth isn't the 5th starter. Just by virture of the money invested in his contract, they're going to want him to start. I think Zach has a good chance to make the bullpen next year though, he did falter this year but his sinker and changeup are both great pitches. He could have a very good future as an all situations bullpen guy.

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Miner would be a starter on a lot of teams, maybe just not this one. We have to have some perspective on this. Trade bait, reliever, whatever--his career is not over.

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The only reason to write him off would be if there are better options available. At this point he fits in just fine as a long reliever in the bullpen, and if he pitches well he could get some more opportunities in the rotation. Eventually he could stick just like Robertson. I don't understand why anyone would want to write him off.

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We're seriously writing off a 24 year old pitcher with three option years, and 2-3 more seasons at the league minimum? Not only that, but a pitcher with some sort of Big League success?

If he had spent all year in Toledo, would you all be wanting to write him off?

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I'm not going to argue that the numbers aren't similar, I'm just not sure why you cash in your chips on a 24 year old who you control for 2 more years at minimum wage. It's not like they are relying on him for next year.

If they trade him that's fine, it's still providing value, but I think it's way too soon to count him out. He showed me more than Tata did with the Tigers.

Stuff and potential also bought Gary Sheffield.

What's the age difference between the two? Miner's first taste of Major League ball demonstrated that he could be successful at the Major League level. Sean Douglass was much older when he actually experienced success at that level, and was never considered a legit prospect....while Miner was.

I'll never try and assert that Miner should be considered a future cog in the rotation, but he is a valuable member of this organization. He's durable (extremely so, actually), has very good "stuff", and has exposure to a big league rotation. He should be kept, and he should be recognized as a valuable commodity.

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He should be kept, and he should be recognized as a valuable commodity.

I think the organization realizes he is valuable. I do think that he could be used as trade bait but I don't know if they will do it. I think he enters next season as the long reliever/swing man for the team.

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I'm not going to argue that the numbers aren't similar, I'm just not sure why you cash in your chips on a 24 year old who you control for 2 more years at minimum wage.

I think this is the crux of the argument. I agree 100%.

Who would cash in on Miner right now? What is the cost of keeping him? Nothing, that's what. Good starting pitching is hard to come by right now. So why get rid of somebody that might be good if he has little trade value but equally similar cost to keep on the roster?

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The only reason to write him off would be if there are better options available. At this point he fits in just fine as a long reliever in the bullpen, and if he pitches well he could get some more opportunities in the rotation. Eventually he could stick just like Robertson. I don't understand why anyone would want to write him off.

I think this is the essential argument. I guess the saying goes that you can never have too much pitching, but it sure does suck for those guys who are the weaker part of the surplus. Put him on a staff like Washington, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, or Pittsburgh and he can be anywhere between the 3rd and 5th pitcher in the rotation. I still don't like him a whole lot, I don't think he brings anything really special, but in increasingly smaller ballparks, demand for sinkerballers will be high and there will be a place for them.

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Miner = Shelton. Fast start, then faltered.

So how come nobody thinks Shelton will never be good?

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I don't think Shelton will ever be good.

Son, don't have such a low self-esteem. You're good enough; you're smart enough; and, doggone it, people like you. :grin: :grin:

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I don't see a thread discussing the 40 man roster and players with options left.

Miner obviously has 2 option years left, correct?

How about Colon - Is he out of options?

Ledezma?

Shelton has one option year left.

I can't think of anyone else that I have any questions about, since Verlander, Zumaya and maybe even Bonderman have em, but won't use them.

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We're seriously writing off a 24 year old pitcher with three option years, and 2-3 more seasons at the league minimum? Not only that, but a pitcher with some sort of Big League success?

What is this thing that is called logic? I am not familiar with it. :laugh:

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