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Tigers get Rob Henkel and Gary Knotts

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I don't think Bernero stands a chance, especially with the stuff that's been acquired in this deal and in the rule V draft. He's definitely vulnerable to being released if he is out of options.

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On the official board it mentioned that Dombrowski envisions Knotts as part of this years rotation. I don't expect the Tigs to rush Henkel, especially with the Rule V arms. That rotation in AA Erie should be fun to watch with Baugh, Larrison, Bonderman, Johnson and Henkel. Robertson is slated for the Toledo rotation. Dombrowski knows all of these players pretty well, when it is all said and done if Henkel is healthy we've made out pretty damn good, however if his injury woes continue, at worst we've made a lateral move. Knotts throws 95 mph, and should put up numbers very similar to what Redman did last season, the only reason he wasn't in the rotation is that Florida's staff was pretty stacked. With Sparks, Maroth and Van Hekken, Knotts will look like he is throwing 100 mph.

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So is it safe to say that Henkel is the key to this deal? He seems to have the most potential. The other guys may do good in the short term, but they seem too old to turn into anything really valuable. As I kinda stated before, if we get one player who ends up better than Redman then we have succeeded. Other contributions are just extra.

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Henkel is undoubtedly the key player in this deal - but he is a risk as he does have injuries in his past. Knotts will give us something we didn't have in our rotation - a flame thrower of sorts, and could actually be an improvement over Redman straight up, especially when considering that Redman offered pretty much what VanHekken and Maroth can offer. And to the argument that Knotts couldn't crack Florida's rotation, it was a pretty good rotation and at best Redman would have been the 4th man.

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strictly following the numbers, redman would have been the marlins third best started last season, and also, after looking at the numbers, knott's stats don't really portend a lot of rotation success.

Knotts throws 95 mph, and should put up numbers very similar to what Redman did last season,

all i'm saying is that there really isn't much that suggests that.

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I dunno, I thought Chris Holt was a steal as well...

Looking at Gary Knott's minor league numbers, I'm much less enthused about his prospects.

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I think it's a really good deal myself. I like Knotts and Henkel. Especially for Redman. Not a steal. But very good.

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Originally posted by Cult of Pena

Once again, we over-value our players and face the hard reality when we don't get as much in return as we deluded ourselves into thinking we should.

I only thought New York fans did that. :cheeky:

If I were a GM, I'd be leary of a guy who finished up the season with a 8.61 ERA in his last 7 starts and had a "dead arm."

I couldn't agree more. Getting something for a pitcher with consistent arm troubles is always a good trade.

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It's very true that Mark Redman has a history of arm troubles and is far from a sure thing. I'd trade a 100% healthy Redman for a 100% healty Henkel - though in reality all those who profess Weaver having arm troubles will feast on Henkel's delivery, which has been compared as an uglier Kevin Appier approach.

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Originally posted by Brent

I couldn't agree more. Getting something for a pitcher with consistent arm troubles is always a good trade.

Even if it's for a pitcher with arm troubles who has proven nothing at the major league level? Redman's tired arm might've been expected, as he hadn't pitched an entire season in over a year. I wouldn't be surprised if he shows more consistency throughout the upcomming season. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if he ripped a tendon in his left elbow, either. I just feel that he's a better, more proven risk for very little money. Either way the Tigers are gonna suck @ss this year.

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I don't think "Tommy John" surgery portends future elbow problems. There's, of course, the Greisinger nightmare, but Seth's travails are more the exception than the rule. I've even read that pitchers who've had that surgery will be stronger in the elbow than they were before. And, in really odd cases, some even throw harder than they did prior to their surgeries (Koch, for example). Perhaps in time, Henkel will get closer to his pre-surgery velocity of 93-95. If he can throw consistently in the low 90s, I'd be happy.

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I'm willing to bet that pitchers who have had Tommy John surgery are more likely to have arm problems in the future than pitchers who haven't, but that's mostly because pitchers who don't have Tommy John surgery have good elbows generally.

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I think from the amount of pitching we have acquired in the past year and the pitching prospects we have returning from injuries, it is definitely clear we are stockpiling the arms and we will definitely sense a direction this team will turn this year, not next year. Even if only a 1/3 of these pitchers turn to be real major league(not talking recent Tiger)quality we will see a semblance of a staff by the end of this year. Now if Dombrowski has chosen woefully I think it will be evident by the end of this coming season and we can all start crying.

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Originally posted by Oblong

My take on it is this: DD knows more baseball than I do. He knows the Marlins system, probably better than anybody in the league. He wants the Tigers to improve. He made this deal. Good enough for me.

I trust his judgement in talent.

Redman was our best pitcher but that isn't saying much. He's a left handed Brian Moehler.

I couldn't of said it any better myself.

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Originally posted by lionstigersand...

if 1 out of every 3 of our pitching propsects make it, then we'll be pretty successful.

Make it where? The Tigers can just use all three in the bigs. But make no mistake, this is a 3 for 1 deal. This should be much better than the Moehler deal, but not in the ballpark as the Weaver deal.

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I think the point is that even 1 out of every 3 of the best pitching prospects don't usually make it in the majors. I don't expect anything close to 1/3 of our pitching prospects to make it.

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assuming that espinosa still has 2 years of development time instead of one (i've seen both listed recently) then i think i actually like the moehler haul a bit more. once again though, i'm not exactly down on the redman deal. it's iffy, but doing a little cost-benefit analysis, i think that which we stand to potentially gain, is certainly worth that which we risked.

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1 out of 3 top pitching prospects might be more concise. As for making it, I would assue it was ment as cracking the starting rotation, though if Bonderman tops out as a fifth starter he will be deemed a disappointment.

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Jim Campbell used to say that it takes 10 pitching prospects to get one MLB pitcher, though I was never very sure what he meant by that. Heck, even Kris Keller was an MLB pitcher (one game, last year).

About five years ago, the Tigers had a bunch of pitchers--Drews, Drumright, Thompson, Greisinger, Roberts--that were supposed to be among the best in baseball. There was a Baseball America article the start of that season that extolled them as prospects.

Stuff happens.

Henkel is more of a risk than I originally thought. I knew about the "Tommy John" surgery, about which I'm not at all worried, but I wasn't aware that he had shoulder problems a couple years ago. He was fine last season, but you never know with shoulders. If he stays healthy, he could be special.

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There's a 4 minute conversation with Rob Henkel posted on the front page of the Tigers Official website. Here's the link.

http://www.detroittigers.com

Basically, he says his shoulder feels "absolutely terrific." Not good. Not even great. But a very emphatic "absolutely terrific."

He threw 150 innings last year, & says his goal is to make the 25-man roster out of ST & then go from there.

Sounds like a great kid & is very excited to be with the Tigers. Let's hope is all works out.

On a related note, It was interesting that the baseballprimer.com article did "Knott" seem that high on Gary Knotts. For whatever that's worth.

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Originally posted by Rob Jones

About five years ago, the Tigers had a bunch of pitchers--Drews, Drumright, Thompson, Greisinger, Roberts--that were supposed to be among the best in baseball. There was a Baseball America article the start of that season that extolled them as prospects.

Stuff happens.

Whatever happened to Drews, Drumwright, and Roberts? What was the end of the line for those guys?

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