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laverty

Trade Bondo

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I wouldn't quite call Bonderman a head case, but his problems do mostly seem to be mental.

As Jim Price was pointing out on the radio today, Bonderman fluxuates from breaking off a sharp, unhittable pitch to throwing a lollypop the very next pitch. I know Price is goofy, but I agree with him that Bonderman's issues seem to be mental, since his stuff is as nuclear as ever.

Remember last year, when he was always giving up runs in the first inning? That's a mental thing. We witnessed two complete mental breakdowns this year: The game in Minnesota, and the 6-0 lead he blew against the Rangers.

The good news is, I think Jeremy can defeat these mental demons, because he still is very young and immature. From what I can see, he lets things bother him too much, and he flies apart out there. Eventually, he should be able to get control of his emotions, and, when that happens, look out.

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bonderman is the classic example of a young kid that was rushed to the big leagues way too early, before he had a chance to mentally develop into an adult. by being thrust to the pinacle his growth in that area was stunted, this is where his "mental toughness" problems come from.

we can thank trammell for that, he should have been at AA in 2003.

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How is this proof that Bonderman is a "headcase"? Even allowing that there is a marked difference between Verlander's performance after an error or with runners on base and Bonderman's, how can you conclusively attribute this to Jeremy Bonderman's mental state? How do you know that Bonderman did not face a tougher class of hitters in these circumstances than Verlander, or that it's not random chance?

The law of averages.

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What proof do you have that Bonderman is a "headcase"?

I have been watching Bonderman since he was 20 with the Tigers 4 years ago and would say I watch about 15-20 of his starts a season. I have def. noticed that when things are going right he is like a piece of iron, he is unhittable. But once he has that error or 2 run homer off the 9th hitter you will see him give up 4-5 runs faster than you can say the word "bondo-mania." I like bondo, he is a tough mofo, but if you havent noticed that when something goes wrong he looks like he is about to cry and throw a temper tantrum you arent watching the same player as I am.

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didn't we trade away Smoltz for Wells years ago? look how that turned out.. yes we won a WS with Wells, but how many other teams have also won with him?

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NEWT, Bonderman was one of the Tigers best choices at the time. That year made him grow up some. While I agree he was rushed, not much else they could do.

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didn't we trade away Smoltz for Wells years ago? look how that turned out.. yes we won a WS with Wells, but how many other teams have also won with him?

what? I think you mean Doyle Alexander and they didnt win the world series with him.

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didn't we trade away Smoltz for Wells years ago? look how that turned out.. yes we won a WS with Wells, but how many other teams have also won with him?

No, they traded Smoltz for Doyle Alexander, he went 9-0 in 1987 and carried the Tigers on his back to the Pennant. The Tigers lost in the AL playoffs to the Twins though.

This is a slightly different situation though, they wouldn't be making a deadline deal, and they wouldn't be getting a 38 year old pitcher at the end of his career. This would be for a 26 year old, gold glove winning, power hitting left handed bat, who shows patience at the plate to play a position of need for the Tigers, and trading from a position of apparent surplus.

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Man, where would this team be without Kenny Rogers? About .500 if they got lucky?

Well, I've had the thought lately, that they should run Kenny Rogers out there every 4th day to get into the playoffs, the guy has been tremendous lately, and I don't think he would have a problem with fatique with his pitching style.

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The law of averages.

The law of averages is not an unbreakable law of physics. If you flip a coin 162 times in 50,000 separate sessions, you will get from as many as 109 heads to as few as 54, whereas the law of averages would suggest that you would get 81 heads every time. So this answer is not conclusive.

I have been watching Bonderman since he was 20 with the Tigers 4 years ago and would say I watch about 15-20 of his starts a season. I have def. noticed that when things are going right he is like a piece of iron, he is unhittable. But once he has that error or 2 run homer off the 9th hitter you will see him give up 4-5 runs faster than you can say the word "bondo-mania." I like bondo, he is a tough mofo, but if you havent noticed that when something goes wrong he looks like he is about to cry and throw a temper tantrum you arent watching the same player as I am.

Your observation of his facial expressions on television isn't enough to make conclusive statements about his mental state. You can speculate that there might be something there -- and I might be inclined to agree with you -- but I think you're taking a mighty leap to conclude that he is a "headcase". We have absolutely no idea what his mental state is, because none of us interface with him on a regular basis. That's my point.

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The law of averages is not an unbreakable law of physics. If you flip a coin 162 times in 50,000 separate sessions, you will get from as many as 109 heads to as few as 54, whereas the law of averages would suggest that you would get 81 heads every time. So this answer is not conclusive.

It's conclusive, in that it is what I used to justify the logic in the comparison between Verlander and Bonderman and the differences between the two. I've also come to this conclusion based on observation between the two pitchers, . If you don't observe these trends while watching Bonderman and Verlander pitch, that's just fine, I do.

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Good thought, but if the boys don't start hitting, they will need more than an extra start or two from Rogers.

The Team hits better for Rogers too though.

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Soriano is not good for what he will cost. .282/.326/.515 is good but is it worth the 7 years 15 million a year?

Lugo was good for the Rays for this season. Is he going to continue to be good? .277/.341/.404 for his career is he going to cost what he is worth though?

Carlos Lee/Barry Bonds/Jim Edmonds/Garciaparra/Mike Piazza/Gary Sheffield are all guys that could help as well, until the farm system starts producing some decent position prospects.

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Can someone tell Jeremy to smile once in a while. This guy with his skinhead, kind-of-like a NEO...something.....just does not smile.... ever....and never seems to be happy. He's only 23 for cripes sake!

I watch him pitch and it seems like agony every time he goes out there....

Jeremy,..... camping, pickup trucks, fishing & hunting are all great...but please... give us something more when it comes to pitching.

Geezzzz...Relax...and smile once in a while.

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Carlos Lee/Barry Bonds/Jim Edmonds/Garciaparra/Mike Piazza/Gary Sheffield are all guys that could help as well, until the farm system starts producing some decent position prospects.

Frank Thomas too. Heck why not offer some of those guys like Bonds/Edmonds/Thomas etc a 1 or 2 year deal like we did with White/Sanders and see if we can't pull in one of those big aging bats?

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It's conclusive, in that it is what I used to justify the logic in the comparison between Verlander and Bonderman and the differences between the two. I've also come to this conclusion based on observation between the two pitchers, . If you don't observe these trends while watching Bonderman and Verlander pitch, that's just fine, I do.

And that's OK, you can conclude that if you wish -- as long as you acknowledge that it is a guess and an opinion, and not fact. Because facts are borne out by at minimum a significant preponderance of incontrovertible data, while guesses and opinions may be borne out by casual and occasional personal observation.

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Can someone tell Jeremy to smile once in a while. This guy with his skinhead, kind-of-like a NEO...something.....just does not smile.... ever....and never seems to be happy. He's only 23 for cripes sake!

I watch him pitch and it seems like agony every time he goes out there....

Jeremy,..... camping, pickup trucks, fishing & hunting are all great...but please... give us something more when it comes to pitching.

Geezzzz...Relax...and smile once in a while.

Randy Johnson and Steve Carlton never smile either.

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I have been watching Bonderman since he was 20 with the Tigers 4 years ago and would say I watch about 15-20 of his starts a season. I have def. noticed that when things are going right he is like a piece of iron, he is unhittable. But once he has that error or 2 run homer off the 9th hitter you will see him give up 4-5 runs faster than you can say the word "bondo-mania." I like bondo, he is a tough mofo, but if you havent noticed that when something goes wrong he looks like he is about to cry and throw a temper tantrum you arent watching the same player as I am.

You mean like Jack Morris?

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Love this thread...been saying the same thing about Bondo for weeks...seems mentally weak in the crucial situations that separate a winner form a loser on the mound. Verlander seems to have it, Bondo doesn't. With his contract status now a factor trading him is mandatory consideration. The best and most obtainable players would be Dunn and Crawford.

People have to be realistic on what's really available and what a pitcher 2 years from FA will bring. Dunn may be a slight underachievement but a good representation of what the Tigers need, notwithstanding his horrible BA/WRISP.

Crawford would take a package, so be prepared to include either Grandy, Inge or Sanchez with him and get back a talented yet, underachieving prospect from Tampa...Grandy and Bondo for Crawford and Upton is not impossible, Upton has been a majotr disappointment in his call up check his numbers... Dukes would also be someone who may be available...think outside the box...we need some hitting and we have an overabundance of qualified starters. Guys remember this, Nate or Maroth will not bring Dunn or Crawford, no way, no how!!! Blalock and Teixerra whould also be explored. Time for DD to get creative.

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I wouldn't touch Jim Edmonds and his post concussion syndrome/falling numbers combination with a ten foot pole, but some of those other veteran guys would definitely be worth a shot.

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