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TigersMeow79

Rumored Milicic deal

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From someone that has never seen Vasquez play? They're not alike at all.

Vasquez is a poor man's Nenad Krstic, and his value has dropped since he wimped out on the NBA. He was drafted too high as it was. Darko has a lot more value than he does, and that's why NBA GMs seemingly line up to contact Dumars about him.

First, how do you know I've never seen him play?

Positives: He's an athletic, bouncy big man with great hands. Vazquez has excellent moves around the basket, a knack for crashing the offensive boards and a nice 15-foot jump shot. He is an excellent rebounder and a good shot blocker. His aggressivness and quickness leads to a lot of dunks.

Negatives: Strength and experience are both issues. He's going to have to bulk up to play the 4 in the pros. He's deceptively strong, but still needs to get stronger. Right now he still relies on his physical gifts more than basketball skills, but scouts say he's improving.

Second, just from reading this, it sounded like a lot of the things they said about Darko when he was drafted.

But apparently you've seen Vasquez play a lot, so why don't you tell me? After all, you know talent, right?:wink:

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I can't remember all of the players involved, but on a WDFN update at Noon they said the Magic/Piston deal was on hold pending discussions between Orlando, NY, and Denver with players moving all over the place, including Francis winding up in NY.

According to the NY Post this is the deal:

Denver gets S. Francis

Knicks get K. Martin, Earl Watson and V. Lenard

Orlando gets Crawford, Ariza, and Nene

Then apparently, IF this deal get's done, Orlando makes the deal with the Pistons.

All rumor and conjecture at this point though.

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I understand completely why the Pistons would do this to set up following years but it would hurt them quite a bit this year.

All my opinion though.

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Arroyo and Darko for a first round pick(assuming we waive Cato as it mentions in the link I posted) is a travesty....this would destroy my "In Joe We Trust" feelings until we win the title again.

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According to the NY Post this is the deal:

Denver gets S. Francis

Knicks get K. Martin, Earl Watson and V. Lenard

Orlando gets Crawford, Ariza, and Nene

Then apparently, IF this deal get's done, Orlando makes the deal with the Pistons.

All rumor and conjecture at this point though.

Thanks, hard to remember all the names when driving down the road.

I am not sure I like what I read about the pick being protected.

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Arroyo and Darko for a first round pick(assuming we waive Cato as it mentions in the link I posted) is a travesty....this would destroy my "In Joe We Trust" feelings until we win the title again.

On the surface and for this year, yes, it would be a travesty. But with no 1st round pick this year and Big Ben needing a contract, it makes sense. Not saying I like it, but it makes sense.

If Lindsey can come back and give us 10-12 minutes a night with his typical defense and minimal turnovers, it might not be that bad. Of course, an injury to Hunter or Billups would be devastating. And I think this is a sure sign that the Detroit Pistons have officially given up on Darko.

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I am not sure I like what I read about the pick being protected.

Meaning that the Pistons get the pick ONLY if it is not in the top 5 or top 7?

If thats so I dont like that either.

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Arroyo and Darko for a first round pick(assuming we waive Cato as it mentions in the link I posted) is a travesty....this would destroy my "In Joe We Trust" feelings until we win the title again.

I don't think it's a travesty:

Darko = 1st round pick

Arroyo = Cap relief to re-sign Ben, Billups down the road...

But... I don't think it's enough of a return. I would really hope that someone like Vazquez is included. Less-than-a-top 5/7 1st rounder, with Darko's potential (if he ever realizes it), should be worth just slightly more. So... while I don't think it's a total travesty... I was hoping for just a bit more... I'm still holding out for a Tyson Chandler/Chris Duhon for Darko/Arroyo/1st rounder deal, although I don't think that helps us cap-wise, if that's what Joe is currently worried about...

From Orlando's perspective, ya gotta REALLY like their future - potential - if they swing both deals: Dwight Howard, Darko, Nene, Crawford, Ariza, Arroyo, plus remaining team...!!!

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PS: I still think Joe is giving up on Darko too soon.... if he really needs the cap space, there's just gotta be another way... isn't there?!?!

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PPS: If we lose Arroyo somehow in a deal, would Tony Delk out of Atlanta be a decent/cheap pickup? Atlanta's going youth, they'll be looking to deal TD.

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I don't think it's a travesty:

Darko = 1st round pick

Arroyo = Cap relief to re-sign Ben, Billups down the road...

But... I don't think it's enough of a return. I would really hope that someone like Vazquez is included. Less-than-a-top 5/7 1st rounder, with Darko's potential (if he ever realizes it), should be worth just slightly more. So... while I don't think it's a total travesty... I was hoping for just a bit more... I'm still holding out for a Tyson Chandler/Chris Duhon for Darko/Arroyo/1st rounder deal, although I don't think that helps us cap-wise, if that's what Joe is currently worried about...

From Orlando's perspective, ya gotta REALLY like their future - potential - if they swing both deals: Dwight Howard, Darko, Nene, Crawford, Ariza, Arroyo, plus remaining team...!!!

Duhon and Chandler? For God's sake, why? Chandler on offense makes Ben Wallace look like Carmelo Anthony. Seriously. The ONLY shot he can make is a dunk and he's too skinny and injury prone to bang with NBA bigs consistently. Duhon simply cannot shoot. He can't. And he's too small to play good defense. He's a decent back-up point guard who can manage a game, but he's a liability on offense. I like him better than Arroyo because he gets the team into the offense instead of dribbling around for 20 seconds, but he doesn't have Arroyo's skill level.

No way I give the Bulls a first round pick plus Darko plus Arroyo for those two.

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First, how do you know I've never seen him play?

Second, just from reading this, it sounded like a lot of the things they said about Darko when he was drafted.

But apparently you've seen Vasquez play a lot, so why don't you tell me? After all, you know talent, right?:wink:

I have seen Vasquez play and I did tell you.

Is anyone worried that only having Hunter to run the point may be, uh, a huge risk? And any future first round pick is still going to hit the salary cap within the timeframe of all the current starter's contracts. :confused:

I'd rather deal McDyess.

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I have seen Vasquez play and I did tell you.

Vasquez is a poor man's Nenad Krstic,

Is that what that was? Oh. Ok. Thanks. whatever that means.

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Duhon and Chandler? For God's sake, why? Chandler on offense makes Ben Wallace look like Carmelo Anthony. Seriously. The ONLY shot he can make is a dunk and he's too skinny and injury prone to bang with NBA bigs consistently. Duhon simply cannot shoot. He can't. And he's too small to play good defense. He's a decent back-up point guard who can manage a game, but he's a liability on offense. I like him better than Arroyo because he gets the team into the offense instead of dribbling around for 20 seconds, but he doesn't have Arroyo's skill level.

No way I give the Bulls a first round pick plus Darko plus Arroyo for those two.

My bad.

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Is that what that was? Oh. Ok. Thanks. whatever that means.

Oh, you haven't seen Nenad Krstic play either? Maybe someone can get an ESPN Insider report for you

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Oh, you haven't seen Nenad Krstic play either? Maybe someone can get an ESPN Insider report for you

Which would provide a little more insight than the worn out cliches of an internet message board poster who claims to have "seen him play."

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Is anyone worried that only having Hunter to run the point may be, uh, a huge risk?

Many people have stated that is quite scary, including myself.

trading away the backup PG, even though it is Arroyo, scares me.
Losing Arroyo is dangerous, unless we have another PG we can pickup... anyone available, at least for this year's playoff run?
I'm sure Dumars wants to see Lindsay Hunter play before he trades Arroyo.
I'd only do this if we Orlando throws in a back-up for Billups.

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Any trade of Darko isn't likely to benefit the Pistons. It's hard to get value for a guy who nobody has ever seen play.

See, I think the absolute opposite. Almost any trade for Darko WILL benefit the pistons because he isn't playing. He is a waste of money and bench space. He is not even a first-bench player. If someone is willing to offer a first rounder for him, take it! If Darko hasn't proven himself to Larry Brown OR Flip Saunders, how good do you think he really is? If we could unload him for another first rounder, we could use our first 2 first round picks for a top 5 pick, if necessary. Darko is the biggest joke of an "player" to ever wear a Pistons uniform. I think Joey Harrington could start at C before Darko.

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HE'S ONLY 20!!! it's very rare a 7 footer under the age of 21 makes any iimpact and Darko is stuck behind 2 all-stars and 6th man of the year.

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But you would think that if he is showing promise in practice, through work-ethic, attitude, etc .. Flip Saunders OR Larry Brown would have played him in SOME situational ... situations? you know what I mean. If a 21 year old can't get more than 5 minutes per game, playing less than HALF the games in a season ... how is that worth a 2nd round pick?

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DaBishop,

You are right about his age. This guy can develop anytime within the next six years and he'd still only be 26. Look at Kaman. He's developing this year and how much older is he than Darko?

The only issue here is I don't see the Pistons' chances of keeping Darko for the long term (at this time) as being very high. He wants out of here. He's not playing. Hey, he's 20 and who doesn't want to play at that age? And he's been sitting for three years. And yet he doesn't seem to be willing to do what it takes to get that PT. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon here as well. He very well could have a very good career but I don't think it will be here. I don't think he'd ever think of resigning here.

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