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Mike Ilitch sucks

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The only way you can be worse than Monoghan is to pay your players to lose games so you can win bets.

I've yet to see anyone suggest Ilitch is a good owner. Don't try and twist the argument that way. He's probably only better than one, and that's Monoghan.

That's fair, Oblong. As I said, they both suck, so it's pretty much an academic argument.

Your arguments are valid, and so are mine. We both have proven our cases: Monaghan and Ilitch are terrible owners.

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"actual Detroiters."

Can you help me out here, please? What, and who, are "actual Detroiters"?

Do they wear Identifing bracelets? Spiked heels? Do they comb thier hair different? And would an "actual Detroiter" be a person who lives there now, or would it be also a person who was born and rasied there, but no longer lives there?

Please, I am lost. Help me to understand. :smoker:

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Do you really think that? How could someone in 2110 make an assumption about the owner today (sucking) just from looking at the teams record during that period? There is so much that contributes to a bad team that is often beyond the fault of the owner (luck). Can you honestly say you know good or bad, how all of the Tigers past owners were, going back to the 1900s?

Personally if I were alive in 2110 and looked at the Tigers record from the Illitch area, my first thought would be "those were some crappy teams," not "That Illitch guy really sucked as an owner."

Exactly. I know when I look up past teams and see strings of futility, my thoughts are how bad the teams suck. I don't usually look up or care who owned them.

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Well, for starters, how about staying the hell out of the way and letting his baseball people make the baseball decisions?

Most of the bad decisions that have plagued this team over the years -- from the Juan Gonzalez trade, to the Higgy contract -- have been Ilitch's decisions.

This passage from a 1999 Freep article about how Larry Parrish failed as manager, which I posted in another thread, sums it all up:

"To make matters worse, sources said Parrish started receiving "suggestions" from higher-ups on which pitchers to use. He also reportedly was told to play centerfielder Kimera Bartee -- something he strongly opposed -- because Bartee was one of owner Mike Ilitch's favorite players."

And you wonder why we have sucked for so long? Ilitch fancies himself a baseball mastermind. He is not.

I'm not sure if it stood out, but I made the right now bold for a reason. At this point I don't care about 1999. What has he done the past 2-3 seasons. I think Mike Illitch is learning from his mistakes in the past. DD (in my opinion) was a GREAT move. Pudge was a GREAT move. Ordonez will remain to be seen. Trading Weaver for the guys we got seems to have been a good move. Should Mike Illitch get all the credit for that? No. Should he get ALL the blame for past mistakes? of course not. He hired the wrong guys and probably made some other bad choices.

I also want to see some evidence that Mike Illitch was the only factor going into signing Higgison, the trade for Juan Gone (which by the way really didn't hurt us in the least) and the "suggestions" on whom to play. C'mon now, how many cities can complain about similiar situations to the ones you listed above? I can't tell you the times I have heard this stuff from friends who live in other major cities. For some reason we think that Mike Illitch is the worst owner of all time yet he built us a brand new park, hired the best available GM, opened up his pocketbook to overpay for a superstar and now has hired a GREAT coach (IMO). I can tell you my friends would like 1 or 2 of the above things from their owners. Again, Mike Illitch hired some poor guys. He might have even got too close for being an owner, but I believe the vast majority of the bad things over the past 7-8 years have come from people Illitch has hired. Illitch holds some of the blame, but I don't think it makes him a bad enough owner to demand him to sell the team. Just my two cents.

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Illitch is 77. We will one day soon get to see the three Illitch kids set unpreviously reached levels of suckiness.

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Illitch is 77. We will one day soon get to see the three Illitch kids set unpreviously reached levels of suckiness.

And that, my freinds, is one scary thought. :smoker:

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Illitch has a long way to go to right the wrongs of the past, primarily keeping Randy Smith around way too long. The signs that he was inadequate were there for a long time before he was finally dumped. This is something that has hampered the team the most throughout the years, and something that Illitch should not escape blame from.

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MWG,

If a guy owns a team as long as Illitch and the record is as poor as it is sure you can make assumptions about his ability to be a solid owner.

And you took my comment a bit out of context. I was talking if people were looking at the owners, as we are here. Of course my first thought would be "The team sucked." I think I said at the start of that post if we were talking about owners.

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If a guy owns a team as long as Illitch and the record is as poor as it is sure you can make assumptions about his ability to be a solid owner.

I've never understood how anyone could possibly even defend Mike Ilitch as a baseball owner. He is by far the worst owner in the history of The Detroit Tigers (and yes that does include Tom Monaghan).

To defend Mike Ilitch is like saying "I dont care if The Tigers ever win again" :smoker:

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I know that this is a long-dormant thread, but, as bad of an owner as Ilitch has been, I still firmly believe that Monaghan was the worst owner in Tigers history. Losing Bill Lajoie, hiring Bo Schembechler, firing Ernie Harwell, in addition to several other things mentioned by Oblong and others, make him the worst owner, in my opinion. Here's a few quotes from memory lane:

From Queen of Diamonds: The Tiger Stadium Story by Michael Betzold and Ethan Casey:

“As long as I own this team, we will not build a new stadium. I like the old stadium, and we’ll do all we can to keep it. We’ll keep fixing it up and making it look as good as possible.” Tom Monaghan, P. 114. This was said in 1987 as the Tigers began seeking public financing for a new stadium.
“People talk about the billions of dollars I have. Well, I’m scratching every day to get by.” – Tom Monaghan, P. 151, owner of Domino’s Pizza.
“The way I feel about it, I’d rather have the old stadium. But everybody that knows better wants a new one, and I’m going with that.” Tom Monaghan , P. 157

And here's my personal favorite:

“Detroit all of a sudden has become one of the worst baseball cities in the United States, when it used to be one of the best. I blame it on the location. We’re probably a million less fans than we would be if we were in a perceived-safe location. We’re probably a million less fans than we would be if we were in a perceived-safe location. I don’t think it is that bad. I think it’s the perception.” – Tom Monaghan, February 1991 (P. 198). It should be noted that the Tigers contributed to the negative perception of the Corktown neighborhood by stating that crime was a significant problem (even though statistics prove that Corktown was, in 1991, one of the safest areas in the city (P. 199, Queen of Diamonds

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Nonetheless, Ilitch is still not only a bad owner, but also a very greedy individual. I have no respect for the man.

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From Queen of Diamonds: The Tiger Stadium Story by Michael Betzold and Ethan Casey

Okay that's just awesome... Mike Betzold is a good friend of mine. Queen of Diamonds is an awesome book. I cherish my copy.

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Illitch makes me queazy. I just don't understand how a guy can own one of the best run franchises in one sport while also owning of the most worst run franchises in another sport. Randy Smith should have been out of a job several years before he was let go. He (Illitch) has a long way to go to make up for the past.

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I just don't understand how a guy can own one of the best run franchises in one sport while also owning of the most worst run franchises in another sport.

Jimmy Devellano. Jim Nill. Steve Yzerman. New York Islanders.

That's 4 reasons.

Devellano and Nill built the foundation of the Red Wings through the drafting and scouting of European players. The Islanders helped out by drafting Pat LaFontaine and Yzerman finished it off by being the second greatest Red Wing of all time.

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Yay! This thread is back!!! I love "Hate-Ilitch" threads!!!! :happy:

But, you know what? Forget about Ilitch and Monaghan! These are good times, and dwelling on the negative would be far too ... negative.

So, you're right, guys: "Queen of Diamonds" may very well be my favorite Tiger book, too -- although Richard Bak's "A Place for Summer" is right up there.

And, here's some more positive karma: maybe, Ilitch, by way of Dombrowski, is in the process of laying the foundation for a Detroit Tiger dynasty with this current crop of eye-popping prospects. If that's the case, then history will remember Blackie-locks as a great owner.

As much as I dislike the man personally, I would love nothing more than to have Mike Ilitch go down in history as the man who brought glory back to the Olde English D. Because my love for the Tigers far outweighs any animosity I have toward Mr. I.

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And, here's some more positive karma: maybe, Ilitch, by way of Dombrowski, is in the process of laying the foundation for a Detroit Tiger dynasty with this current crop of eye-popping prospects. If that's the case, then history will remember Blackie-locks as a great owner.

As much as I dislike the man personally, I would love nothing more than to have Mike Ilitch go down in history as the man who brought glory back to the Olde English D. Because my love for the Tigers far outweighs any animosity I have toward Mr. I.

There's a long way to go before Illitch is "honored" as a Tiger owner. Still a whole lot of past damage to overcome.

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My opinions of Ilitch as Tiger owner hasn't changed. But while times are going good I'd rather not dwell on him. Let's see if he can repair his resume here.

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I know that this is a long-dormant thread, but, as bad of an owner as Ilitch has been, I still firmly believe that Monaghan was the worst owner in Tigers history. Losing Bill Lajoie, hiring Bo Schembechler, firing Ernie Harwell, in addition to several other things mentioned by Oblong and others, make him the worst owner, in my opinion.

Absolutely, Monaghan was the worst. He bought a team filled with personality, tradition and brains and bled it dry, into a lifeless shell. It may have taken Ilitch too long and too many wrong moves to recover but it's looking to me like he's finally on the right track.

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Spot on there.

Monoghan didn't do anything for this franchise.

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You know. Who's worst or second worst - does it really matter? Either way both have been failures. The only difference here is that Ilitch still has a chance to do something about his resume.

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I think it absolutely matters because it's not just worst or second worst. there's a huge gap between them in my opinion. Ilitch tried. Did he wait too long to can smith? Absolutely. But he tried. That means everything. Monoghan just let it go. He took money from the team to pay for his other hobbies. It was pure neglect.

Ilitch poured money into this team from the beginning. He signed Fielder and Fryman, he signed Eric Davis. Tried to get guys like PUckett, Rickey, Jimmy Key, etc.

It's like one was a parent who chained the kid up in the basement and barely fed it. The other spoiled it so that they grew up thinking the world owed them.

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If the Tigers have a winning season, and are playing meaningful baseball in September, then I don't give a crap who owns the team.

The fact is, Ilitch has spent money. Wisely? Not always, but some moves made during his time as owner were great.

He has rebuilt the farm system, and we're now seeing the results of that. Also...he has let Dombrowski do his job for the most part.

The guy spends money, and doesn't interfere too much.

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