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Mike Ilitch sucks

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I hate Illitch too, but I'm too depressed about the state of the Lions and Tigers to even look up one of the other 400 threads to post a link...

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I look forward to the day he sells.

God speed Alan Trammell.

I pray, for the sake of this franchise, that it's soon.

The Tigers will never be a winner as long as Mr. I (or his kids) owns them. :mad:

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Sorry I can't put Monaghan and Illitch in the same breath. I know the argument. He stripped our organization to nothing. And, obviously, his success had something to do with what he inherited but to blame what is happening to the Tigers now as still a part of what Monaghan did as owner is baffling to me. There has been plenty of time to reinvest in the areas this team didn't when he was here. And during Illitch's regieme he has done nothing to improve the overall product with that large time frame - at least with our results. In fact we had a 119-loss season with Illitch under guard and that season was a decade after the Monaghan regime ended. Trying to blame what has happened to the Tigers today for what Monaghan did in 1992 makes zero sense. Especially when you consider the best season under Illitch's guard was in 1993 - with the team that had the most influence from the Monaghan era.

Oblong,

I know you didn't say you are blaming Ilitch for today's problems. Maybe you are or maybe your not. But I assumed you were because the only way I can think anyone can hint Monaghan was a worse owner is if you are considering the long-term damage he did to the team - and if you are considering his era as Tiger owner is still directly killing this team. To me there's a time when you got to break ties and say "this is entirely Illitch's doing" and I'd say from 1997 and on may be a good point of reference for such talk. And since then we've been, well, pretty bad.

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Mike Illitch has put more money into the Tigers than any previous owner. Period. Granted, they have not seen success on the major league level. He made some mistakes. I'd agree with all of you if Randy Smith were still the GM .. but he's not. That shows me that Illitch held him accountable for his bad decisons, & brought somebody else in to take over.

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Mike Illitch has put more money into the Tigers than any previous owner. Period. Granted, they have not seen success on the major league level. He made some mistakes. I'd agree with all of you if Randy Smith were still the GM .. but he's not. That shows me that Illitch held him accountable for his bad decisons, & brought somebody else in to take over.

Didn't the Tigers have the highest payroll in baseball from 1991-1993? So Monaghan spent a boatload of cash on the Tigers too.

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I am working on a salary database from 1988-present. I will present the information later.

Just to note...The only year the Tigers have ever been in the top 5 salaries was in 1988......when the were #2.

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Just to note...The only year the Tigers have ever been in the top 5 salaries was in 1988......when the were #2.

They also had a team comprised of mostly veterans with a ton of service time so you would expect them to have high salaries. I don't remember exactly when he bought the team but didn't most of those guys come with team?

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Hey, my favorite subject! :happy:

I understand where people are coming from by saying Monaghan is the worst owner in Tiger history. They both obviously suck, so the argument is academic.

But here's the difference to me: Monaghan may be the worst owner as far as his intentions go, but when you talk results, there is no argument -- Ilitch is the worst, by far.

In fact, when you look at the on-field results, Mike Ilitch is not only the worst owner in Tiger history; he's right up there with Harry Frazee as one of the all-time worst owners in baseball history.

Monaghan was a seedy character, to be sure. He ran the Tigers into the ground almost intentionally, to make the books better for the impending sale of the club.

You cannot say that about Mike Ilitch. Ilitch does try to make the Tigers a better team. The problem is, as I've said a million times, he just can't bring himself to admit that he sucks in the area of player procurement. He can't get out of the way and let his baseball people run the team. He wants to be hands-on, but his decisions (Higgy's contract, wanting to sign Juan Gonzalez to a huge contract, etc.) have totally sucked.

Basically, here's the difference between Monaghan and Ilitch, the way I see it:

Let's say you have a baseball player who doesn't try at all. This player screws around during practice, doesn't stay in shape, etc. He ends up hitting .220 because of his lack of interest and screwing around.

Now, let's judge this player against another player. This second player does work hard to get better. He practices hard, etc. But this guy won't listen to his coaches. He does things his way, despite constant failures in doing it that way. And this second player ends up hitting .117.

Which player is worse?

Baseball is a results-oriented business. And Ilitch's record speaks for itself.

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Sorry I can't put Monaghan and Illitch in the same breath. I know the argument. He stripped our organization to nothing. And, obviously, his success had something to do with what he inherited but to blame what is happening to the Tigers now as still a part of what Monaghan did as owner is baffling to me. There has been plenty of time to reinvest in the areas this team didn't when he was here. And during Illitch's regieme he has done nothing to improve the overall product with that large time frame - at least with our results. In fact we had a 119-loss season with Illitch under guard and that season was a decade after the Monaghan regime ended. Trying to blame what has happened to the Tigers today for what Monaghan did in 1992 makes zero sense. Especially when you consider the best season under Illitch's guard was in 1993 - with the team that had the most influence from the Monaghan era.

Oblong,

I know you didn't say you are blaming Ilitch for today's problems. Maybe you are or maybe your not. But I assumed you were because the only way I can think anyone can hint Monaghan was a worse owner is if you are considering the long-term damage he did to the team - and if you are considering his era as Tiger owner is still directly killing this team. To me there's a time when you got to break ties and say "this is entirely Illitch's doing" and I'd say from 1997 and on may be a good point of reference for such talk. And since then we've been, well, pretty bad.

Ilitch's failures have been mistakes. Monoghan's failures have been neglect. Huge difference. Monoghan didn't even attempt to improve this team. He literally took money away from the Tigers to buy personal toys. Ilitch invested in this team (not wisely obviously but he still tried). Monoghan took investment away from the team.

And it's entirely fair to still blame Monoghan because the failures in the 90s were attributable to his stripping of the system in the 80s. Ilitch had nothing to work with in 1992 so he tried to spend money at the major league level and that caused problems later on when money dried up.

Neither was successful. One tried, one didn't. That's why Monoghan is worse than Ilitch.

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Year Tigers $ Rank % chng MLB High MLB Low
1988 15,597,071 2/26 nil $18,909,152 $5,906,952
1989 15,099,596 10/26 -3.19% $21,584,161 $7,595,561
1990 18,092,238 14/26 19.82% $23,873,745 $9,496,238
1991 23,736,334 13/26 31.20% $33,632,500 $11,546,000
1992 28,773,834 16/26 21.22% $44,352,002 $8,236,166
1993 36,548,166 10/28 27.02% $45,747,666 $8,829,000
1994 40,042,501 6/28 9.56% $44,785,334 $13,529,333
1995 35,862,501 8/28 -10.44% $49,791,500 $12,031,000
1996 21,941,000 23/28 -38.82% $52,189,370 $15,410,500
1997 16,304,500 27/28 -25.69% $59,148,877 $9,071,666
1998 22,625,000 26/30 38.77% $70,408,134 $9,202,000
1999 34,959,666 22/30 54.52% $88,130,709 $15,150,000
2000 61,740,167 13/30 76.60% $92,938,260 $15,654,500
2001 49,356,167 20/30 -20.06% $112,287,143 $24,130,000
2002 55,048,000 20/30 11.53% $125,928,583 $34,380,000
2003 49,168,000 24/30 -10.68% $152,749,814 $19,630,000
2004 46,832,000 23/30 -4.75% $184,193,950 $27,528,500
2005 69,092,000 15/30 47.53% $208,306,817 $29,679,067

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and I will modify my statement to say "One tried, one deliberately didn't want to".

What Monoghan did bordered on sabatoge. The only reason it wasn't was because it was his to ruin. To give him credit is to give him credit for dumb luck.

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not named Tom Monoghan.

Ilitch has done a far worse job for a far longer period of time. I don't know how people still blame Monaghan. Compared to Fetzer he was a spend thrift, the Tigers did have quite a bit of success during his ownership period. If you check out the Tigers payrolls from his time, they were quite high relatively. It's been 13 years since he was the owner anyway, how long is the guy going to be on the hook for the Tigers lack of success in player development.

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Mike's biggest mistake was not building the new stadium in a middle class neighborhood with a large working population surrounding it. Lots of folks still will not cross 8 Mile going south & Telegraph going east. If they did a poll once a month at Comerica Park turnstiles, the percentages of actual Detroiters attending individual games would be shocking.

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Ilitch has done a far worse job for a far longer period of time. I don't know how people still blame Monaghan. Compared to Fetzer he was a spend thrift, the Tigers did have quite a bit of success during his ownership period. If you check out the Tigers payrolls from his time, they were quite high relatively. It's been 13 years since he was the owner anyway, how long is the guy going to be on the hook for the Tigers lack of success in player development.

I'm not putting him on the hook for the current lack of player development. The question is who was a worse owner, not who was more responsible for the current team.

For pete's sake, Monoghan almost moved the team into a dome in Dearborn. That alone tops it.

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I just don't agree that Mike Illitch is what is keeping the Tigers from succeeding. He has had a lot to do with it in the past, but is there anything different that he could do right now?? He has screwed up in the past, but IMO he has the money and desire to make this team into a champion. I would rather have that, than someone who is just trying to make a buck or two. Mike has hired DD, whom at the time was probably among the hottest guys in baseball. He also has now hired Leyland, who is probably considered a top 5 (maybe that is too high) manager in baseball right now (at least from his accomplishments). He has shown a willingness to spend money on big free agents (Pudge and Ordonez). I also think he has some pretty good guys building up the minors right now along with some young rookies/2nd year pros.

No doubt Mike Illitch has been a disappointment, but I don't think he has given up on the Tigers. He seems to be desparately looking for the solution and that is what I want from an owner. He has money to burn and a lot still to learn, I say let him do it here in Detroit. We must admit things are getting better, aren't they?? (I'm talking in terms of player development and our future)

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Mike's biggest mistake was not building the new stadium in a middle class neighborhood with a large working population surrounding it. Lots of folks still will not cross 8 Mile going south & Telegraph going east. If they did a poll once a month at Comerica Park turnstiles, the percentages of actual Detroiters attending individual games would be shocking.

Mike Ilitch has wrongfully gotten a lot of credit over the years for keeping the Tigers in Detroit. But he deserves neither credit nor blame for the Tigers staying in the city.

When Ilitch bought the team, the sale came with a binding 30-year lease that compelled the Tigers to stay in Tiger Stadium. The Detroit City Council allowed Ilitch to get out of that deal, but only with the stipulation that he would build a new ballpark in the city.

So, basically, Ilitch had no choice. It was either stay in Tiger Stadium, or build a new park in Detroit. Moving to the 'burbs was not an option.

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Mike's biggest mistake was not building the new stadium in a middle class neighborhood with a large working population surrounding it. Lots of folks still will not cross 8 Mile going south & Telegraph going east. If they did a poll once a month at Comerica Park turnstiles, the percentages of actual Detroiters attending individual games would be shocking.

Yeah, those crappy attendance statistics really demonstrate your point.

I think it would be a travesty if they had moved the Tigers out of the city.

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Was that the same lease that kept the Lions in Pontiac until next year? William Clay Ford must not have gotten that memo either

If Ilitch wanted to go the burbs he could have. It may have cost him some money but he could have.

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