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Illitch Gambling Ties Garner Attention

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The absolute topper is when Illitch was asked for a comment after the horrendous 2003 season. Illitch took this time to blame the Detroit Lions for the Tigers woes. :cheeky:

My hatred of Illitch is probably more than TFFL and Woodpecker combined but since the nature of the board is predominately pro-Illitch, I'll let others fight the battle. :wink:

:alien:

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Originally posted by The Ronz

The absolute topper is when Illitch was asked for a comment after the horrendous 2003 season. Illitch took this time to blame the Detroit Lions for the Tigers woes. :cheeky:

Quote? Link?

Originally posted by The Ronz

My hatred of Illitch is probably more than TFFL and Woodpecker combined but since the nature of the board is predominately pro-Illitch, I'll let others fight the battle. :wink:

:alien:

Let me interpret this:

"TTFL and others are getting their butts handed to them because they're failing miserably in the logic department and it is safer for me to not get involved lest I look as foolish as they are".

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Originally posted by The Ronz

The absolute topper is when Illitch was asked for a comment after the horrendous 2003 season. Illitch took this time to blame the Detroit Lions for the Tigers woes. :cheeky:

My hatred of Illitch is probably more than TFFL and Woodpecker combined but since the nature of the board is predominately pro-Illitch, I'll let others fight the battle. :wink:

:alien:

I didnt know anyone could hate mike ilitch more than me, but I'm happy just to be a ilitch hater.:classic:

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I wouldn't say this board is so pro-Ilitch. It seems that to some of the people here, if you don't wish Ilitch dead on a daily basis you're suddenly an "Ilitch lover."

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Biff your interpreting skills are A+. Perhaps if you learned a few more languages you could help win the war on terror.

Seriously the Tram Bashers take a lot of heat, but the Illitch bashers are worse, and I like TFFL other than the Illitch rants.

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Originally posted by keglerv

Biff your interpreting skills are A+. Perhaps if you learned a few more languages you could help win the war on terror.

Seriously the Tram Bashers take a lot of heat, but the Illitch bashers are worse, and I like TFFL other than the Illitch rants.

I really like coming to this board. It's a good place to get insightful and decent info on my favorite team.

And I dislike it when we have these debates.

Since everyone already knows my extreme hatred for mike ilitch, I think I will continue on---quietly praying for the Grim Reaper to pay him a visit.:alien:

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Originally posted by tiger_fan_for_life

Since everyone already knows my extreme hatred for mike ilitch, I think I will continue on---quietly praying for the Grim Reaper to pay him a visit.:alien:

Wow thats harsh... You simply can't hate him that much.

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Originally posted by zachcadillac

I think this board is predominantly pro-logic.

Unfortunately, that presents problems for some people.

Logic Wins Again!

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Originally posted by tiger_fan_for_life

Since everyone already knows my extreme hatred for mike ilitch, I think I will continue on---quietly praying for the Grim Reaper to pay him a visit.:alien:

I seriously just lost every once of respect I ever had for you.

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Originally posted by tiger_fan_for_life

Since everyone already knows my extreme hatred for mike ilitch, I think I will continue on---quietly praying for the Grim Reaper to pay him a visit.:alien:

Pathetic.

What a sad little man you are.

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Originally posted by tiger_fan_for_life

I really like coming to this board. It's a good place to get insightful and decent info on my favorite team.

And I dislike it when we have these debates.

Since everyone already knows my extreme hatred for mike ilitch, I think I will continue on---quietly praying for the Grim Reaper to pay him a visit.:alien:

all because you don't like the way he runs his baseball team and you feel that lessens your entertainment options?

That's not only harsh and pathetic, it's downright disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. I hope you never have kids. The world would be better off.

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Originally posted by tiger_fan_for_life

Since everyone already knows my extreme hatred for mike ilitch, I think I will continue on---quietly praying for the Grim Reaper to pay him a visit.:alien:

Man, get a grip. You're actually wishing someone dead over a baseball team??? :confused:

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Originally posted by pvtpylot

Man, get a grip. You're actually wishing someone dead over a baseball team??? :confused:

Alright. I may have been a bit harsh. Seriously I wouldnt wish that on anyone:tired:

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I cannot, for the life of me, understand how people can defend Mike Ilitch's ownership with a straight face.

Okay, so maybe it's splitting hairs to debate whether Ilitch was worse than Monaghan -- that's like debating whether Britney Spears is a better songwriter than Jessica Simpson. They both suck.

But baseball, my good buddies, is a bottom-line business. Don't talk to me about what Ilitch's intentions were -- what is his record?

The answer, unfortunately, is: 12 straight losing seasons, by far the worst in Tigers history.

Defending that is akin to saying, "well, Joe Schmoe may have batted .202 lifetime, but he always came to the plate with a good hitting approach. He really did care about hitting; it just didn't manifest itself on the field."

I don't care whether Ilitch cares about the Tigers or not, or whether Monaghan was a bigger idiot -- Ilitch's record so far sucks. Period. How can anyone possibly argue otherwise?

And as far as Marian Ilitch and her gambling connections are concerned....well, I just happen to have in my possession a 1993 Detroit Tigers Media Guide. If I may quote from aforementioned publication:

"Marian Ilitch: Owner, Secretary/Treasurer

Marian Ilitch, owner and secetary/treasurer of the Detroit Tigers and all other Ilitch companies ... has combined her love of sports and keen financial expertise to help create several of the most successful and exciting sports/entertainment entities in the country.

"When she and her husband, Mike, purchased the Tigers in 1992, they added to the ballclub to their impressive sports holdings of the Detroit Red Wings and the Detroit Drive.

"Working with her husband has produced a uniquely-suited management team whose skills and strengths complement each other."

There it is, in black and white. In 1993, Marian Ilitch owns the Tigers. Then, suddenly, she doesn't. Neat trick.

As Pete Waldmeir used to say, "maybe she can petition the Pope to get her virginity restored, too."

The rules of baseball say players and owners cannot be involved with gambling. There is no gray area.

Don't pee on my boots and tell me it's raining. Marian Ilitch doesn't own the Tigers?

My arse.

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The rules of baseball say players and owners cannot be involved with gambling.

And don't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining. Marian Ilitch doesn't own the Tigers?

hmmmm.... I wonder if Bud Selig knows about this rule.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand how people can defend Mike Ilitch's ownership with a straight face.

Okay, so maybe it's splitting hairs to debate whether Ilitch was worse than Monaghan -- that's like debating whether Britney Spears is a better songwriter than Jessica Simpson. They both suck.

But baseball, my good buddies, is a bottom-line business. Don't talk to me about what Ilitch's intentions were -- what is his record?

The answer, unfortunately, is: 12 straight losing seasons, by far the worst in Tigers history.

Defending that is akin to saying, "well, Joe Schmoe may have batted .202 lifetime, but he always came to the plate with a good hitting approach. He really did care about hitting; it just didn't manifest itself on the field."

I don't care whether Ilitch cares about the Tigers or not, or whether Monaghan was a bigger idiot -- Ilitch's record so far sucks. Period. How can anyone possibly argue otherwise?

What's your point? Nobody is saying he won or that his record has been good. The point is the reasons the Tigers were losing and if those reasons have been taken care of. If you think they have been then bitching about 1994 or 1996 or even 2003 is entirely moot. It's in the past. You can't change it. You can't make Ilitch sell the team. Your only option is to either follow the Tigers or not follow the Tigers. You guys act like if we don't whine incessently about what an evil man Ilitch is then we are somehow being complacent or accepting failure. What we accept or don't accept doesn't matter. It's his team. We can't change it and neither can you.

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Originally posted by zachcadillac

Your only evidence is from a media-guide blurb a decade old?

You are kidding, right? This is a publication put out by the Ilitches, proclaiming Marian as owner of the team. A few years later, the same people say Marian is not involved with the team.

What other evidence do you need?

You've got to be trying to bait me; nobody could really be that thick.

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I for one would like to hear more about how Atanis Ilitch's failed music career has manifested itself into Dmitri Young's horrible on-base percentage this season.

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Originally posted by Oblong

hmmmm.... I wonder if Bud Selig knows about this rule.

That's what I've been wondering myself.

What's your point? Nobody is saying he won or that his record has been good. The point is the reasons the Tigers were losing and if those reasons have been taken care of.

So far, the Detroit Tigers are a mediocre team. While that certainly represents a marked improvement from the past, it still does not pass muster.

So, in answer to the question: No, the reasons for losing have not yet been taken care of. Not yet, anyway.

Yes, there is certainly cause for optimism -- but there was that same optimism years back, when Higginson and Clark and Justin Thompson were entering the picture. Higgy hit .320-something his first year, then 27 dingers his second; Tony blasted 30 homers/100 ribbies his first few years; JT was incredible for awhile there. Things were looking up around 1997, and everyone was ready to proclaim the ship turned around.

Then, a few years ago, there was again cause for optimism: all those great players at AA Erie who were going to lead us to a pennant. I think Omar Infante is the only one who panned out, and even his skill level is questionable.

So, you laud Ilitch because he went out the last few years and spent a lot of money on free agents? Okay...but he did the exact same thing when he first bought the team -- but he spent his money foolishly. And who is to say he didn't do it again?

Whether or not Ilitch's signings of recent vintage pan out, you can't argue they were huge risks, particularly with Ordonez. Remember, we got Pudge and Magglio only after EVERY OTHER TEAM turned them down first.

Those may turn out to be good moves, and, God, I hope so. But you could certainly make the argument that many other well-respected baseball GMs would consider them foolish signings.

So, to again answer the question at hand: Have the reasons for losing been taken care of? Things are looking up, but, no, nothing has been determined yet. Right now, their record is just mediocre, so you can't say the problems have been addressed.

When the team has two or three years above .500, then we can safely say the tide has turned. Okay, even one or two seasons above .500...or, hell, I'll settle for one. But not before then.

It's in the past. You can't change it. You can't make Ilitch sell the team. Your only option is to either follow the Tigers or not follow the Tigers.

Or we can do the American Thing: Come onto an internet message board and do a little harmless bitching.

You guys act like if we don't whine incessently about what an evil man Ilitch is then we are somehow being complacent or accepting failure. What we accept or don't accept doesn't matter. It's his team. We can't change it and neither can you.

That doesn't mean I have to like it. And if it makes me feel a little better to come onto a board like this and kick a little with some like-minded people...what harm?

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Originally posted by Oblong

Media Guides are not legal documents.

Okay. It's this simple: Either Marian Ilitch did own the team, which makes the Ilitches liars.

Or, Marian never did own the team, and they just put that in their media guide -- which makes the Ilitches liars.

I'll abide by the ruling of the court.

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Originally posted by Tyrus

You are kidding, right? This is a publication put out by the Ilitches, proclaiming Marian as owner of the team. A few years later, the same people say Marian is not involved with the team.

What other evidence do you need?

You've got to be trying to bait me; nobody could really be that thick.

Perhaps she divested herself of her shares in the 10 years since your evidence was relevant?

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Originally posted by Tyrus

You are kidding, right? This is a publication put out by the Ilitches, proclaiming Marian as owner of the team. A few years later, the same people say Marian is not involved with the team.

What other evidence do you need?

You've got to be trying to bait me; nobody could really be that thick.

She was, and now she's not. And, she was probably removed from the Tigers specifically so she could act as owner of MCC. So what? It's allowed by the laws of the land and by the rules of MLB, and I'm sure the Ilitches aren't the first owners to take advantage of such loopholes. If MLB doesn't like it they can vote to close it. Good luck getting 30 owners to agree to that, though.

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Originally posted by zachcadillac

Perhaps she divested herself of her shares in the 10 years since your evidence was relevant?

Right. And those weren't gambling slips Pete Rose was filling out: they were his grocery lists.

Do you work for these people or something?

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