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eastside billee

Which 3 position players would you least like back next year? 3 pitchers?

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Originally posted by keglerv

1) German- I do not like relievers with severe control issues

You are misevauating him, IMO. He has shown to not have control issues at other levels. What he has is head issues. The control is there its just that he wiggs out when he gets up here, for some reason, but I think its something that with a little more experience, will go away. I hope anyhow.

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Originally posted by Yoda

You are misevauating him, IMO. He has shown to not have control issues at other levels. What he has is head issues. The control is there its just that he wiggs out when he gets up here, for some reason, but I think its something that with a little more experience, will go away. I hope anyhow.

Correctly said, Yoda...and I hope they go away too, if he can get over the mental block, he has the makings of a dominant closer. In his last few appearances of the season, we got a flash of what could be. Confidence breeds confidence, and hopefully this is the start of his breeding period and the mind block is slowly but surely going away.

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Fielding: Sanchez, White, J. Smith

Pitching: Levine, Ennis, Yan, Dingman, Knotts

Why White? He puts up average numbers with extremely poor defense. He also costs $3 million and Monroe can do the same with a savings of $2 million.

As for Thames... why again? At his price, getting rid of him when he seems ready to put up a 30 hr, 100 rbi season in 2005, along with avg defense is not a prudent decision. Can't get rid of Vina.... we need a 2B to replace Guillen when he gets injured (and Infante moves over).

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Originally posted by eastside billee

2. ESTBAN YAWN - most messed up saves? I understand that he wasn't supposed to be the closer - but the problem is - he was. His fastball is fast, but straight. He's so very inconsistent - and too old to rejuvenate.

I think you're being much to hard on Yan. He certainly isn't a closer, so it isn't really fair to use him in that roll, and then be upset that he failed. It would be like telling Young: Well, Carlos Guillen got hurt, and we know you're not a SS by trade, but we really need to you to do it okay? Obviously he's gonna be horrible defensively... it's not his strength. Do you think say: Let's cut Youg because his defense at SS is just horrible?

Yan was starting to get very good at late relief... sort of the setup roll. He obviously doesn't have the makeup for a closer, so let's move him back to the area where his strength is. We have enough problems we need to solve in the pen without creating more by cutting someone who can't do a job that he was never intended for.

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Position Players:

1. White: because that would mean we got something good in trade for him before his contract runs out

2. Shelton: because that would mean that he is developing in the minors as he should be

3. Higginson: because that would mean someone actually took his contract off of our hands!

Pitchers:

1. & 2. Dingman & Ennis: because that would mean we found some major league arms for the pen

3. Urdaneta: because that would mean we have a good enought team with a chance of winning that we don't have room to carry a Rule 5 player on the roster.

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Originally posted by CaliforniaDreaming

3. Urdaneta: because that would mean we have a good enought team with a chance of winning that we don't have room to carry a Rule 5 player on the roster.

Urdaneta doens't need to be on our roster next year as a Rule V player....

We optioned him to Toledo...he cleared waivers...and the Indians didn't want him back. He's ours without any restrictions now....

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Chris Shelton -- needs time to develop in the minors

Fernando Vina -- injured himself out of a job

Eric Munson -- bats .220, can't play third, maybe the change would help him

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Originally posted by Microline133

Urdaneta doens't need to be on our roster next year as a Rule V player....

We optioned him to Toledo...he cleared waivers...and the Indians didn't want him back. He's ours without any restrictions now....

Cleveland didn't think the guy was worth $25,000 - that doesn't bode well for his prospects...

As for my list - Eric Munson(E-5), Alex Sanchex(who looks completely disinterested at the plate and is a one trick pony) and the whole friggin bullpen. The pen needs to be fumigated and exorcised - we need zero remaining reminants of the putrid stink that eminated from there this whole season.

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Originally posted by Shaggy Ry

Cleveland didn't think the guy was worth $25,000 - that doesn't bode well for his prospects...

I think it had a lot to do with the injuries he sustained this year, and the lack of effectiveness he demonstrated when "healthy". I'd love to see him get extensive work in Extended Spring Training and then head to Erie to start next year. It might even behoove the organization to allow him to fill one of their two open pitcher slots in the AFL....

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I wonder if it would be better to give hs arm as much rest as possible and give him the winter off and have him at 100% come the spring.

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Originally posted by Microline133

I think it had a lot to do with the injuries he sustained this year, and the lack of effectiveness he demonstrated when "healthy". I'd love to see him get extensive work in Extended Spring Training and then head to Erie to start next year. It might even behoove the organization to allow him to fill one of their two open pitcher slots in the AFL....

Well...so much for Urdaneta heading to the AFL...after posing this question on here, I inquired with the Front Office, at which point they indicated that Lee Rodney and Rick Kirsten would be filling the final two roster spots with the Rafters....

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Originally posted by Microline133

Well...so much for Urdaneta heading to the AFL...after posing this question on here, I inquired with the Front Office, at which point they indicated that Lee Rodney and Rick Kirsten would be filling the final two roster spots with the Rafters....

With Woodyard, kind of an uninspiring group...Any idea who got the other infield spot?

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Originally posted by TonyJM

With Woodyard, kind of an uninspiring group...Any idea who got the other infield spot?

The final list from the Tigers is as follows.....

Mark Woodyard

Lee Rodney

Rick Kirsten

Chris Shelton

Ryan Raburn

Curtis Granderson

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Originally posted by Shaggy Ry

What position is Shelton pegged for in the AFL?

They have him listed as a catcher, but I doubt he'll get much time there...

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Originally posted by Microline133

They have him listed as a catcher, but I doubt he'll get much time there...

I hope he splits his time between catcher and first base and hope that these leagues don't have designated hitters, and if they do, the spot is given to kids working on their swings. This is an instructional league afterall and Shelton needs defensive work.

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Originally posted by Microline133

Well...so much for Urdaneta heading to the AFL.

So due to this, what do you think Urdaneta's future with this club is going to be? Just keep him tucked away at Erie or Toledo until he's ready?

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Bobby "last out" Higginson, Eric "injured while watching play" Munson, and Alex "7 walks" Sanchez.

Estaban "blown save" Yan, Steven "coveted left handed middle relief" Coyler, Al "left off a post-season roster for a reason" Levine

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Why does everyone not want Levine? I know he had some ups and downs but he is good enough to play for us next year since we can't buy an entire bullpen for next year. He was really good for us at the end, and I'm not talking about only in one game good like some of the other bullpen pitchers did the last time they pitched.

As for the 3 to say bye to:

Sanchez (although I like him he will command too much money), Smith (He can't be on a playoff team, he's a good enough fill in though), Shelton (obviously AAA).

Colyer (stick to carsalesman), German (he has too hard of a time throwing 2 consecutive strikes), Dingman (the best he looked throwing is when Nate was wearing his jersey that one time).

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Originally posted by FickBERG

Why does everyone not want Levine? I know he had some ups and downs but he is good enough to play for us next year since we can't buy an entire bullpen for next year. He was really good for us at the end, and I'm not talking about only in one game good like some of the other bullpen pitchers did the last time they pitched.

I thought I was the only one who noticed his positive points, thanks FickBERG.:classic:

Because alot of people on this board only paid attention to his downs. I don't need to mention any names, but they're the same ones who gripe about Higgy, gripe about Tram's management skills, gripe, gripe, gripe is all they do.

I, for one, have noticed Levine to be inconsistent, but he did fare pretty well in July (0.68 ERA), and in August (3.86 ERA). The whole bullpen went down the tubes when Urbina left, so I'm not going to put much stock in his September/October numbers. But those who gripe about him, didn't pay attention to when he is pitching well...just when he stinks up the joint. Extremely sad, but true....Same holds true with Yan as well.

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Originally posted by tim48035

I don't need to mention any names, but they're the same ones who gripe about Higgy, gripe about Tram's management skills, gripe, gripe, gripe is all they do.

Do you really need to point this out everytime? I mean seriously...you express your dislike for those who complain and gripe about players and coaches....you really don't sound any better when you sit there and continually complain about those people...

I personally don't see these people as continually griping or looking for something to complain about...it sounds a lot more to me like they refuse to take players and ideas a face value, and like to completely evaluate them....whcih often times ends up in opinions that aren't largely popular....

Now to the real question...

Why does everyone not want Levine?

Levine is a pitcher with an abysmal strikeout rate, he gives up a ton of hits, and gives up a homerun about every 7 innings....not exactly what you want to rely on in your bullpen...

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Originally posted by Microline133

Do you really need to point this out everytime? I mean seriously...you express your dislike for those who complain and gripe about players and coaches....you really don't sound any better when you sit there and continually complain about those people...

I personally don't see these people as continually griping or looking for something to complain about...it sounds a lot more to me like they refuse to take players and ideas a face value, and like to completely evaluate them....whcih often times ends up in opinions that aren't largely popular....

I will stop pointing this stuff out. I get nowhere doing it, obviously.

And yes, there are posters on this board, that gripe for the sake of griping and it has gotten so annoying to me (and I'm not the only one) that I've had to place some of them on ignore.

I promise, I will not mention this again, since I'm annoying people too. That is not my intention. My apologies for being so annoying myself.

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Certainly more than 3 position players.

Jason Smith-provides no use for this team

Chris Shelton-needs AB's somewhere else because he won't get them in Detroit.

Alex Sanchez-No durability.

Carlos Pena-It doesn't send a good message to the rest of the team when you can struggle for a couple years and have two good months at the end of the year and everything is rosy.

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Originally posted by Microline133

Do you really need to point this out everytime? I mean seriously...you express your dislike for those who complain and gripe about players and coaches....you really don't sound any better when you sit there and continually complain about those people...

I personally don't see these people as continually griping or looking for something to complain about...it sounds a lot more to me like they refuse to take players and ideas a face value, and like to completely evaluate them....whcih often times ends up in opinions that aren't largely popular....

I don't understand what's so bad about Tim's comments. It's no secret that a lot of people on this board have challenged the relentless negativity of a handful of posters. I'm disappointed and surprised that you could consider their criticisms to be based on anything other than a need to strike a pose. Dignifying their tiresome "critiques" as "evaluative" is ludicrous. Tim is one of the few people who have actually bothered to even talk about this issue and trying to silence him is a cheap shot unworthy of your otherwise thoughtful commentary.

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Originally posted by IdahoBert

I don't understand what's so bad about Tim's comments. It's no secret that a lot of people on this board have challenged the relentless negativity of a handful of posters. I'm disappointed and surprised that you could consider their criticisms to be based on anything other than a need to strike a pose. Dignifying their tiresome "critiques" as "evaluative" is ludicrous. Tim is one of the few people who have actually bothered to even talk about this issue and trying to silence him is a cheap shot unworthy of your otherwise thoughtful commentary.

Ya I can't understand people being negative regarding the Tigers. Who cares about the fact that this team has not had a .500 season since 93? This 72-90 record is the best one since 2000. Finally the organization might be showing signs of knowing what they're doing but they still make a lot of mistakes. Since the last time the Tigers made the playoffs the only other ones that can say that is Kansas City, Milwaukee, Tampa Bay and Montreal (would have made it in 94). Calling some out because they're negative does that make them right in their views or does that make them a better person?

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