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Nook, and other crannies...

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http://www.mlive.com/tigers/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1096625433133850.xml

Logan gives Tigers something to remember for next year

Friday, October 01, 2004

By Danny Knobler

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. -- For the trouble of their one-day trip to Florida, the Detroit Tigers got another taste of what young pitcher Jeremy Bonderman can do.

And a quick look at what Nook Logan can do, too.

After Bonderman won the first game of Thursday's makeup doubleheader at Tampa Bay with an impressive 8-0 shutout, the speedy Logan nearly set up a second-game win by scoring from first base on a single. His dash home tied the game in the eighth inning and the Tigers later went ahead, before the bullpen allowed three runs in the bottom of the eighth to lose it, 6-4.

Thursday's bullpen meltdown will fade in with all the others this month. Logan's run might be remembered, as the Tigers try to figure out who plays center field next year and into the future.

``I hate to say he has world-class speed,'' manager Alan Trammell said. ``But it's world-class-for-baseball speed. When you see it, it's so exciting.''

Trammell still wonders if the switch-hitting Logan can hit well enough left-handed to play every day. But Logan was batting left-handed when he started the eighth inning with a walk. That set up the next play, the hit-and-run single on which Logan scored from first.

``It gives you a taste of what he can do,'' Trammell said. ``If he can develop, he could be something special. If not, he'll be one of many. He's raw, very raw.''

But he's potentially very good, as he showed on the run and also on a fine running catch in left-center field to end the first inning. It had some Tigers thinking of Carl Crawford, the Tampa Bay center fielder who has emerged this year as perhaps the American League's fastest player.

``Carl Crawford has got a run for his money,'' Dmitri Young said.

Pudge Rodriguez's first-game home run was the 250th of his career. His next RBI will be his 1,000th.

So which milestone means more to him?

``Wins,'' Rodriguez said. ``Just wins.

After watching outfielder Curtis Granderson and second baseman Ryan Raburn play for the last three weeks, Trammell said Thursday that he doesn't expect either one to compete for a major-league job next spring.

``You know what, they need to go to Triple-A,'' Trammell said. ``There's nothing wrong with that. Looking back, I probably could have used (some time in Triple-A) myself. I'm glad I didn't, but I probably could have used it.''

The Tigers had just two players ranked among the top 10 prospects in their leagues by Baseball America. Managers in the Double-A Eastern League called Granderson the league's seventh-best prospect, while Lakeland shortstop Tony Giarratano was called the ninth-best prospect in the Class A Florida State League. No players from Triple-A Toledo, Class A West Michigan or either of the two short-season leagues were picked. . . . The Tigers weren't sure until Thursday morning that Rodriguez would be able to play, because of the tight right hamstring that forced him out of Tuesday's game. Trammell said if Rodriguez hadn't been available, Chris Shelton would have caught one of the two games.

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Most creative title for a thread this year?

Good article. I've suprisingly been impressed with Nook since he was called up. I didn't expect that at all.

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Originally posted by tiger337

That article scares me. Trammell is drooling over Logan too much.

Why does everyone seem to hate Logan? He's done a pretty fine job in my opinion or have I completely missed something horrendous about Nook?:confused: :confused: :confused:

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Originally posted by tim48035

Why does everyone seem to hate Logan? He's done a pretty fine job in my opinion or have I completely missed something horrendous about Nook?

He's done ok in limited playing time but I don't expect much of him. I don't mind if they give him a shot but I hope they are more excited about Granderson than Logan.

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Originally posted by tiger337

He's done ok in limited playing time but I don't expect much of him. I don't mind if they give him a shot but I hope they are more excited about Granderson than Logan.

I think they should be excited about both, actually. I did like Sanchez as well (one of the few) but we all know he's not coming back. The whole Granderson/Logan thing could be a battle for backup CF, if the Tigers sign Beltran in the offseason (in my mind, not likely, but possible).

I really do like what I've seen from Logan. Not a bad defensive CF, with alot of speed, but the only thing he lacks in, from what I've seen, is a lack of power. If I had my druthers, I'd like to see Granderson spend the beginning of the year at Toledo, even if they don't sign Beltran, have Logan start the season as the #1 CF, and have Monroe spell him every once in a while, while keeping an eye on Granderson's progress at Toledo, and if he does well, promote him.

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Originally posted by tim48035

I think they should be excited about both, actually. I did like Sanchez as well (one of the few) but we all know he's not coming back. The whole Granderson/Logan thing could be a battle for backup CF, if the Tigers sign Beltran in the offseason (in my mind, not likely, but possible).

I really do like what I've seen from Logan. Not a bad defensive CF, with alot of speed, but the only thing he lacks in, from what I've seen, is a lack of power. If I had my druthers, I'd like to see Granderson spend the beginning of the year at Toledo, even if they don't sign Beltran, have Logan start the season as the #1 CF, and have Monroe spell him every once in a while, while keeping an eye on Granderson's progress at Toledo, and if he does well, promote him.

Trammell said that Granderson will start the year in Toledo and I think that's the right thing to do. I expect him to get some good playing time with the Tigers later in the season even in the unlikely even that they sign Beltran. If they don't sign anyone in the off season, then Logan will probably be their CF to start the season.

Logan has not shown any ability to hit RHP and that's a big problem. Granderson's minor league track record is far superior to Logan and I consider him a much better prospect either as a center fielder or a corner outfielder.

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Originally posted by tim48035

Why does everyone seem to hate Logan? He's done a pretty fine job in my opinion or have I completely missed something horrendous about Nook?:confused: :confused: :confused:

the only thing(s) I see is that maybe he plays too far back in centerfield defensively and he has a Sanchez-like arm, but with that "world-class for baseball speed" the positioning is not a big deal, and how many centerfielders really have a canon/hose? (insert euphemism for stong arm here)....I'm down to have Nook in the 9 hole next year to start the season if a move isn't made somewhere to get a Beltran ( a boy can dream)

BTW----TOUCHDOWN NORTHWESTERN BABY!!!! 27-17

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Originally posted by tiger337

If they don't sign anyone in the off season, then Logan will probably be their CF to start the season.

Which is exactly why Tram is gloating about him. It's called sugar-coating a potentially bad situation.

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Originally posted by cruzer1

After watching outfielder Curtis Granderson and second baseman Ryan Raburn play for the last three weeks, Trammell said Thursday that he doesn't expect either one to compete for a major-league job next spring.

This quote was actually fairly encouraging...With those two and Shelton at AAA, we'll actually have a reason to follow the box score there.

In terms of the Logan gloating, even if it is sugar-coating, it's still kind of scary. Logan has been better than I anticipated (which isn't saying all that much), but he certainly doesn't have a track record that earns him a long leash. His baserunning, defense and pricetag are upgrades over Sanchez, but his offense seems to be slightly worse. Just not a guy I'm comfortable seeing start the season in centerfield.

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I don't see what's wrong with having a guy who can flat out go get the ball playing centerfield in Comerica Park?

We had a good offense out there and we lost 90 games. Centerfield was our biggest defensive problem (with Sanchez) until Logan came around.

Having Nook Logan in centerfield batting 9th is a pretty darn good option.

If he goes 0-3 but makes a catch nobody else out there can to stop a rally that's a pretty decent trade off to me. I don't think our pitching staff would mind either. His hitting hasn't been nearly as bad as everybody said either. And he will only get better as he gets more ab's lefthanded.

I'm sad people don't understand how valuable a guy like Logan is defensively. And the reason why people won't acknowledge it is because it's impossible to quantify. Trammell understands it. And he also understands why you can't have Munson playing 3rd base. But you can't really quantify that either.

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Originally posted by jake

I'm sad people don't understand how valuable a guy like Logan is defensively. And the reason why people won't acknowledge it is because it's impossible to quantify. Trammell understands it. And he also understands why you can't have Munson playing 3rd base. But you can't really quantify that either.

Nook Logan is clearly a better defensive centerfielder than Sanchez, but I don't think that's saying much. I saw pretty close to every game he played this year with the Tigers, and while he seemed solid there (his arm isn't great), it wasn't like he was an elite centerfield defender. In my opinion, in order to make up for his lack of offense, he needs to be "elite" there. I'm not opposed to having Logan around, that's for sure, but I just don't feel comfortable with him starting. I think when you talk about his value, you look at guys like Dave Roberts who provide the same kind of thing and can be acquired for Henri Stanley types.

-Tony

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Originally posted by TonyJM

In terms of the Logan gloating, even if it is sugar-coating, it's still kind of scary.

Why diss tram for trying to sound positive? He has no control over the situation. Right now nick is our best centerfielder. I hope like hell that we get someone new but if we don't, you have to try and be positive about it and encourage nook, which is exactly what Tram is doing. I don't see what the big deal is.

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I am totally shocked jake thinks the all-defense/no-offense guy is good for the team.

You actually can quantify both munson and logan's contributions defensively. How accurately you can quantify it is a question, but regardless Logan doesn't have to do much to be worth more than Sanchez (who jake loved earlier in the year because of his bunting). He's an ok stop gap if we don't find someone better (also not that difficult) for a reasonable price (that might be tougher to do). His defensive abilites don't help him when he is exposed against RHP. Giving up an inning a game to potentially make a play that no one else could have made if a pretty poor idea IMO.

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Originally posted by qsilvr2531

I am totally shocked jake thinks the all-defense/no-offense guy is good for the team.

Of course this is what was being said about a couple of guys at this time last year.....Brandon Inge and Omar Infante. Could Nook Logan actually be the player who finds himself offensively in 2005?

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Originally posted by qsilvr2531

Giving up an inning a game

Would we really be giving up an inning a game? If he sucks it up, his OBP might be at most 50 points lower than some other stop-gap CFer that we might sign. An inning a game might be a little misleading when he's likely to only get on base one-eighth less than what might replace him. If that holds, we'd only be giving up 1/8 of an inning per game, because his replacement would be getting out nearly as much. It sounds like a lot in comparison, but .05 of an OBP really isn't going to make that much of a difference.

I don't know if this makes sense, I'm not wording it well. But I hope you get what I'm saying.

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Would we really be giving up an inning a game?

I was refering to jake's 0-3 but makes a big play comment, which would be sacraficing an inning a game for a good defensive play. I would expect if he played full time against righties and lefties that his OBP would be 50-80 points below league average, which is anywhere from 1/8 to 1/3 of an out per game.

.05 of a difference in OBP (assuming Logan posts a .280 OBP for the year) over the course of a full season is the difference between the worst team and the best team in baseball. Over the course of a season, that is worth about 25 runs for an average offensive team about 2.5 games per year. That doesn't take into account for Logan's lack of power either. .05 is an extremely large difference.

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I think a .280 OBP would be worst case scenario. You can bet if he did that for an extended period, someone else would be made the centerfielder. I'd expect somewhere between that and what he's done this year.

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I think a .280 OBP would be worst case scenario. You can bet if he did that for an extended period, someone else would be made the centerfielder. I'd expect somewhere between that and what he's done this year.

I'd be ver surprised if he posts an OBP above .300 for a full season, unless he was platooned (and I think he could actually be a very usefull platoon player). Maybe he learns to hit righties next year, but his OBP was .330 this year and he hit .390 against lefties. He's much better against lefties than righties, but he's not THAT much better. If he hits .350 against leftiess and .200 against righties, he'll have to walk alot (which he did against lefties this year, to his credit) to maintain a .280 OBP.

It's tough to draw any conclusions from his 129 AB sample this year, but based on that and his minor league career, he needs to make a drastic improvement against righties to be usefull as a full time starter. I agree that if he doesn't hit he'll be replaced, but if we go into the season without someone to replace him, we won't be able to replace him very easily.

Of course this is what was being said about a couple of guys at this time last year.....Brandon Inge and Omar Infante. Could Nook Logan actually be the player who finds himself offensively in 2005?

He might. Inge surprised me this year (Infante less so, though I didn't think he'd have the kind of power he had). Logan could do the same. A better question might be, how likely is it to happen?

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Originally posted by qsilvr2531

Logan could do the same. A better question might be, how likely is it to happen?

About as likely as Inge and Infante improving as much as they did... and to a lesser degree, Guillen and (gulp) Sanchez.

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If Nook isn't in Detroit come next opening day - he better be with another organization, because Granderson needs to be playing centerfield in AAA Toledo.

Could Monroe play centerfield? I mean could he put in a hard winter worth of work and come out competent on the other end?? Or how about Higginson in centerfield? - he sure hits like on now. He's solid, if unspectacular, defensively and still has a cannon for an arm - he won't get to any balls that he shouldn't get to but he'll make expected outs.

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Originally posted by Yoda

About as likely as Inge and Infante improving as much as they did... and to a lesser degree, Guillen and (gulp) Sanchez.

Infante's improvement should not have been unexpected. His talent was masked by the fact he was rushed to the majors too fast. He was not a can't mis type but I don't think his progrsss was that unusual.

I don't think Sanchez really improved much. He has developed an uncanny ability to bunt for base hits. No other aspects of his game have improved at all.

Guillen did have a substantial improvement but he was already pretty good to start. Comparing him to Logan doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The Inge/Logan comparison makes the most sense because both are loved by scouts and both have had very poor results as hitters (until Inge this year). One could use the excuse that Inge was rushed to the majors. Logan has been brought along at a good pace with very limited results. I hope Logan comes along as well as Inge but I would not project success for a player based on one unexpected improvement. I'd say more than likely he's the next Milt Cuyler.

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Originally posted by tiger337

Infante's improvement should not have been unexpected. His talent was masked by the fact he was rushed to the majors too fast. He was not a can't mis type but I don't think his progrsss was that unusual.

Actually his improvement did surprise me, because he was so immature last year, i.e. looking in the stands instead of paying attention to the game. With a great influence as Guillen, he's grown by leaps and bounds, and has been, in my opinion, a very pleasant surprise.

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