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Trade Munson, not Inge

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I'm sure you all know Munson hit a 460-480 foot HR to win the game last night. The Tigers should have already won the game if not for Munson throwing away the ball into the Tigers dugout on a relatively easy double play that cost the Tigers 3 or 4 runs early on. He is a bum at 3rd base but has Jim Thome strength at the plate (9 homers in 150 at bats after hitting 18 last year even after missing 2 months with an injury)

I like him as a DH you can't teach Cecil Fielder type power and I suddenly see the light. Munson would hit 30-40 homers a year if he played every day but he shouldn't be a 3rd baseman at the moment.

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Originally posted by Microline133

165 at-bats compared to over 800 prior major league at-bats....hmmm....which one carries more weight?

I'm thrilled that he is performing well, and I truly hope it is an indicator of his turning a corner, but please....165 at-bats is hardly enough to qualify him as an effective major league player....

Since the all-star game in 2003 Inge is 92 for 328 an average of .280 with 11 homers and 49 RBI over a span of 105 games. He hit .258 after the all-star game last year after his trip to Toledo.

Before that he was 124 for 677 for an average of .183 with 11 HR and 47 RBI.

I don't think he is a .300 hitter but not a .200 hitter either. Inge will probably settle in around .250 with 15 homers a year....Maybe not good enough for an every day good defensive player but as a utility player very good. One reason Inge is hitting .300 is that there are more LH starters in the AL central than RH starters and KC just started 3 in arow vs Detroit and Inge teed off on them. THats probably why Pudge is hitting .372 as well its good to hit Lefty pitching all the time.

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Originally posted by LansingLugnut

I'm sure you all know Munson hit a 460-480 foot HR to win the game last night. The Tigers should have already won the game if not for Munson throwing away the ball into the Tigers dugout on a relatively easy double play that cost the Tigers 3 or 4 runs early on. He is a bum at 3rd base but has Jim Thome strength at the plate (9 homers in 150 at bats after hitting 18 last year even after missing 2 months with an injury)

I like him as a DH you can't teach Cecil Fielder type power and I suddenly see the light. Munson would hit 30-40 homers a year if he played every day but he shouldn't be a 3rd baseman at the moment.

Exactly. Move Eric Munson to DH and see what he hits without having the pressure on him of playing 3B. Move Dmitri Young to 1B and either bench or trade Carlos Pena. Young will surprise you how well he plays 1B and since he is one of the team leaders it would be good team chemistry having him playing in the field also. Rondell White could DH against tough lefties.

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Originally posted by Woodpecke®

This team can already contend offensively. What did the farm provide us with? They need 2 starters and some relief help. This team acquired almost all of its offense through my route- free agent signings and salary dumps. It's not really that drastic. Add more. Spend more. When I said immediately, it doesn't mean that you can just go get what you want in July. Buying players makes your farm system better. If it were up to most of you, you would have been perfectly content to wait until 2007 or 2008 for the farm to provide ML help. Not only do you want me to tell you HOW to do it, you also want ME to provide you a list of available players. If you want, I'll spend time looking for possible acquisitions when I have the time. Do some work on your own.

All I'm asking is for you to provide some support for your assertions. I have done work on my own, and my work is showing that no team is contending without impact players coming out of their farm clubs. And for the record, with the exception of Vina, I liked all of our free agent signings (even Levine and Mike Defilice). It gives the team more to work with, and makes them more exciting to watch. But they're not a contending team, and they can't contend purely out of free agency. Look...With most of our free agent acquisitions performing at the highest level, we're the sixth best offensive team in the American league. The offense is likely to taper off a bit in the second half have of the year. That's why it just makes sense to look to deal some of these guys for potential impact players that could come up through the farm. And if it's so easy to acquire players via the free agency route, then it won't be difficult to fill, say Rondell White's shoes, if we let him go for a couple strong pitching prospects.

-Tony

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You can see the problem with trying to fix all the problems through free agency in that list. Most of the players are 30+ and past their primes. Some of them will still cost a lot of money. There are a couple that the team could look at like Glaus, Lowell, Beltre, Perez, Beltran, etc.. But the cost of those guys will be too risky more than likely due to previous years of ineffectiveness (Beltre), injury concerns (Glaus), age (Lowell), and just all around cost (Beltran, Perez).

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I dont know the exact ages but this has to be close

Bonderman 21

Maroth 26 or 27

KNotts 26 or 27

Robertson 26 or 27

Cornejo 24

Johnson 30

starting staff is young and in the minors Sleeth, Zumayla, Baugh, Ledezma and others I may be forgetting.

BUt I agree if Tigers are 8 games under in late July lets trade Rondell/Pena/Inge etc for some more pitching prospects...you can never have enough. We have Guillen and Pudge through 2007 so thats a great start for offense locked up.

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Originally posted by estrepe1

But the cost of those guys will be too risky more than likely due to previous years of ineffectiveness (Beltre), injury concerns (Glaus), age (Lowell), and just all around cost (Beltran, Perez).

When you use the word "risky", I truly don't understand what you're talking about. I'm not advocating that the Tigers go out and spend wildly on past their prime, injury-prone players. When it comes to evaluating the Detroit Tigers franchise, "risky" means finishing below .500 for years and years while hoping that fans continue to support the team, which they aren't. They took plenty of "risks". Losing 119 games without trying to stop it was a "risk". You and I will never agree, mainly because you feel developing a strong farm system first is important to stability later. I've argued this point over and over and over again. I would trade prospects to get established pitchers. Prospects come and go. I would overpay if necessary to correct the mistakes of the past. You wouldn't. It's that simple. As far as Ilitch not being able to afford a larger payroll, I know for a fact he can. He needs to sell either the Red Wings or the Tigers. If he was the owner of the Boston Bruins and they won the Stanley Cup while the Tigers lost 119 games, people would be screaming to have him pulled through the Foxtown district by the hair. This franchise passed "risky" long ago.

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Originally posted by Woodpecke®

As far as Ilitch not being able to afford a larger payroll, I know for a fact he can. He needs to sell either the Red Wings or the Tigers. If he was the owner of the Boston Bruins and they won the Stanley Cup while the Tigers lost 119 games, people would be screaming to have him pulled through the Foxtown district by the hair.

WP, interestingly enough the personal finances of Mike Ilitich are somewhat of a mystery. Little Caesar's is a private company and thus doesn't have to disclose its finanical information. Mike was clinging on the Forbes list in 2002 at 550M but has been absent the past few years. Little Caesar's has also dropped quite a bit in the ratings of largest private companies. Papa John's has cut into their market share in a big way. He's never going to the poorhouse but I don't know if he's in a position to take 20-30M a year in additional losses with the Tigs.

He wont sell the Wings (and in the current labor climate I don't think it would even be possible, even for the Wings franchise). That won't be an option for him. He could sell the Tigs but then there is no guarantee that the person coming in would be any better. Baseball has approved a few questionable deals the most recent being Frank McCourt (or Frank McBankrupt as he is called by a local sports talk host) who pretty much bought the Dodgers through financing as he couldn't afford it with his own cash.

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I agree with you Hong, it is questionable whether the buyer would be any better than Illitch. Of course you can't get much worse than what his track record has been as far as the clubs W-L record. I remember there was a rumor about them being sold to a company a couple years ago (comcast?) other than that there haven't been any rumors of Illitch selling.

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Originally posted by Woodpecke®

This team can already contend offensively. What did the farm provide us with? They need 2 starters and some relief help. This team acquired almost all of its offense through my route- free agent signings and salary dumps. It's not really that drastic. Add more. Spend more. When I said immediately, it doesn't mean that you can just go get what you want in July. Buying players makes your farm system better. If it were up to most of you, you would have been perfectly content to wait until 2007 or 2008 for the farm to provide ML help. Not only do you want me to tell you HOW to do it, you also want ME to provide you a list of available players. If you want, I'll spend time looking for possible acquisitions when I have the time. Do some work on your own.

You are only looking at this year. What I want is for the Tigers to become a perennial contender, a team that we know will compete almost every year. Right now the division is weak. What if one team steps up and becomes strong. Then it's going to take more than a patchwork team to contend. To do that, they need to strengthen their player development system significantly.

Some of the players from your "all ready to contend offense" will not be factors in a couple of years. At that point, they'll need to be replaced. I know you don't care about prospects but all these big money guys you crave were once prospects. Once they get to an 80 million dollar payroll and the big money guys are old and injury prone and they still have no farm. Then what do they do ? Jack up the payroll to 100 million ?

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Detroit is the best baseball city in the Central Division so I think they could be the Yankees of the division.

KC and Minnesota are small market teams. The White Sox cant draw a crowd of 20,000 very often. Cleveland was great when they 1st built Jacobs Field but now they are struggling to fill the seats.

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Back to the Pena/Munson/Inge discussion...

C-Pudge/Inge

1B-Young/Munson

2B-Infante/Vina/Smith

3B-Inge/Young/Munson/Smith

SS-Guillen/Infante/Smith

LF-White/Monroe/Inge/Young

CF-Sanchez/Monroe/Inge

RF-Higginson/Monroe/Inge/Young

DH-Munson/Young/Monroe

That is the best type of lineup...trade Pena, he can only play 1B...we are a more versatile team with Munson and Inge. Although Inge will get us the most, he probably will produce more than Pena. I think people are ready to hand over the keys to the city to Pena after the grand slam, but he has been putrid with RISP. Tram gave Munson no chance with having him bunt in his 3rd at bat, he could have gone 3-4...Munson will get hot, next game could put him at .230. He has 30 HR power with a somewhat consistent bat with regular playing time. He was good in the field today actually, and I wouldn't mind seeing Pena AND Inge dealt if we can get a lot in return and have Young or Munson play 3rd, switching off on the corners every other game.

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Originally posted by ricucity

Back to the Pena/Munson/Inge discussion...

C-Pudge/Inge

1B-Young/Munson

2B-Infante/Vina/Smith

3B-Inge/Young/Munson/Smith

SS-Guillen/Infante/Smith

LF-White/Monroe/Inge/Young

CF-Sanchez/Monroe/Inge

RF-Higginson/Monroe/Inge/Young

DH-Munson/Young/Monroe

A lot can change in a week. Last week Thames was on everyone's list. He didn't make your's this week. Do you see place for him?

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Of those listed, I've deleted those I wouldn't be interested in signing & bolded those I think we may have a legitimate shot at.

Originally posted by tigermojo

Kerry Wood, ChC, RHP, 28*

Matt Clement, ChC, RHP, 31*

Odalis Perez, L.A., LHP, 27*

Javier Vazquez, Mon., RHP, 29*

Curt Schilling, Ari., RHP, 38*

Matt Morris, St. L., RHP, 31*

Kris Benson, Pit., RHP, 30*

Russ Ortiz, S.F., RHP, 31*

Freddy Garcia, Sea., RHP, 29*

Scott Williamson, Cin., RHP, 29*

Braden Looper, Fla., RHP, 30*

Richie Sexson, Mil., 1B, 30*

Jose Vidro, Mon., 2B, 31*

Troy Glaus, Ana., 3B, 28*

Trot Nixon, Bos., OF, 31*

Garret Anderson, Ana., OF, 33*

Geoff Jenkins, Mil., OF, 31*

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Matt Clement, ChC, RHP, 31*

I think he'd like the idea of being a clear cut...number one guy.

Troy Glaus, Ana., 3B, 28*

I think 3B is gonna have to be the off season mission...that is, to get a REAL ONE :devious:

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Of those listed, I've deleted those I wouldn't be interested in signing & bolded those I think we may have a legitimate shot at.

Jose Vidro

Vidro has signed an extension with Montreal/Washington/Norfolk/

Portland/?????

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Vidro signed a 4 year extension. Vazquez signed a contract with the Yankees I think. The rest I'm not sure about. That list was made before this season.

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Originally posted by IdahoBert

A lot can change in a week. Last week Thames was on everyone's list. He didn't make your's this week. Do you see place for him?

Yea, he can be the AAA MVP for all I care. He has more holes in his swing than swiss cheese.

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Originally posted by tiger337

You are only looking at this year. What I want is for the Tigers to become a perennial contender, a team that we know will compete almost every year. Right now the division is weak. What if one team steps up and becomes strong. Then it's going to take more than a patchwork team to contend. To do that, they need to strengthen their player development system significantly.

Some of the players from your "all ready to contend offense" will not be factors in a couple of years. At that point, they'll need to be replaced. I know you don't care about prospects but all these big money guys you crave were once prospects. Once they get to an 80 million dollar payroll and the big money guys are old and injury prone and they still have no farm. Then what do they do ? Jack up the payroll to 100 million ?

This is dead on, Lee...And if you look at a club like Cleveland that has an emerging young base, the importance of developing a system becomes even more apparent, whether it's by trading some of your veterans, or drafting and developing. This isn't to say we shouldn't be pursuing quality free agents, we should, but we shouldn't marry ourselves to them either. If the oppurtunity arrises to pick up a quality minor league prospects for a guy who won't be helping us in a year or so, the Tigers are in a situation where they should take it.

-Tony

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