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Things falling apart for the Tigers

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The Tigers really seem to have a rough spot here. Just a week ago they won the night cap of the double header and Bob Cluck said it "was the biggest win of the year". but the tigers just havent played well lately. every ab seems like an attempt to hit the ball into the waterfountain at kaufaman stadium. the only people getting hits right now are pudge and brandon inge. tram needs to give thames a day off to let him settle down. he looks like he is trying to hit one over the fence every time he steps up. if the tigers dont turn this around and win tonight and win the d-backs series its gonna be the end of some guys time in detroit

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You're overreacting a little, IMO. Did you not expect them to go into a few 5-game slides this season? I think they'll snap out of it. The pitching hasn't been terrible, they just haven't been able to get good pitching and hitting in the same game. It'll come around eventually. There's still a lot of talent on this team.

And remember, the more they lose, the better draft pick they get :classic:

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I agree that some veterans are going to go at the deadline but I think this is just a down in what will be an up and down season.

Also for whatever reason the Tigers are 8-20 versus Left handers this season and have a terrible record over their last 37 games at Kauffman something like 8-29.

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The Royals have our number. It's not as bad as you think for the reasons stated above. Hang in there man, our time will come.

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Is this the time the Tigers should look at trading say Dmitri Young. The only reason I mention his name is because earlier in the year when the Tigers had to go over 45 games or so without Dmitri they found a way to stay afloat and play pretty good baseball. When this happened people thought even myself included that the lineup could get more consistent with Dmitri. Well Dmitri has now played 17 games and is doing ok. With the team now it seems everybody is expecting someone else to step up and have a big hit. I just believe if Dmitri could get them a good package the Tigers would be in a pretty good position. The Tigers found a way to play over a quarter of the season and this could help the Tigers in the long run if DD can get what he wants.

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Hopefully this means that come trade deadline...Dombrowski is selling all the way.

I always thought we'd flirt with .500, which is basically what they're doing.

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Originally posted by TigersMeow

Is this the time the Tigers should look at trading say Dmitri Young. The only reason I mention his name is because earlier in the year when the Tigers had to go over 45 games or so without Dmitri they found a way to stay afloat and play pretty good baseball. When this happened people thought even myself included that the lineup could get more consistent with Dmitri. Well Dmitri has now played 17 games and is doing ok. With the team now it seems everybody is expecting someone else to step up and have a big hit. I just believe if Dmitri could get them a good package the Tigers would be in a pretty good position. The Tigers found a way to play over a quarter of the season and this could help the Tigers in the long run if DD can get what he wants.

Young's value wouldn't be as high right now as it could be so it's probably not a good time to trade him. Plus, he brings alot to this team in the clubhouse and so on. He is very important so they'd be reluctant to trade him for the sake of trading him. Wait a while and then maybe consider it.

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I think we probably are better off waiting until next year to trade Young. With his current contract, I think he's more valuable to us than he would be to anyone else, unless he gets really hot in July.

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Originally posted by JonBenke

Hopefully this means that come trade deadline...Dombrowski is selling all the way.

I always thought we'd flirt with .500, which is basically what they're doing.

31-39 isn't "flirting" with .500. That's 8 games under in a terrible division. The Tigers started 4-0. They are 12 games under since then. They have yet to play the Yankees and Red Sox. Or the White Sox. They have a ton of games against these teams coming up. Minnesota too. This team is "flirting" with 100 losses.

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31-39 isn't "flirting" with .500.

What's our current losing streak?

We were...and still might be -- flirting with .500.

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Originally posted by JonBenke

What's our current losing streak?

We were...and still might be -- flirting with .500.

You see it your way, I see it mine. This isn't even close to a .500 team on paper. Now, at the beginning of the season or at the end. More losing streaks on the way.

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This isn't even close to a .500 team on paper.

I know this.

But, on paper...we have trade value in some of our players.

This is why I would tweak any trade I could...trying to bolster our farm system which is currently ranked in the mid 20's.

Urbina, Inge, Maroth, White, Johnson, Sanchez, etc...

If you want them...you can have 'em!

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Originally posted by JonBenke

I know this.

But, on paper...we have trade value in some of our players.

This is why I would tweak any trade I could...trying to bolster our farm system which is currently ranked in the mid 20's.

Urbina, Inge, Maroth, White, Johnson, Sanchez, etc...

If you want them...you can have 'em!

I like reading what you write. I really do. So I hope you never think I'm being rude or nasty when I'm responding. My style is a bit direct, and sometimes people don't listen to the message. That being said, I agree with nothing I just quoted you on. Nothing. I am going to start a thread when I get time because I'm so completely opposite to your point of view. 180 degrees.

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Yeah, the Tigers have a 4-game loosing streak but I'm still thrilled about the Guillen contract.

.500 was a "wonderful season" benchmark before this year started and it remains that.

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Actually, it's a 5 game losing streak, and they play this afternoon hoping to stop the slide against a team breathing down their necks. I'm glad they signed Guillen, but the mental mistakes by this team are becoming legendary. .500 was a pipe dream.

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Originally posted by Woodpecke®

.500 was a pipe dream.

I think the only people who really thought this team would be .500 were the ones drinking some serious Detroit Kool Aid. Kinda like all those people picking the Lions to win 10 or 11 games. Vegas has the over under at 6 1/2.

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Originally posted by Buddha

I think the only people who really thought this team would be .500 were the ones drinking some serious Detroit Kool Aid. Kinda like all those people picking the Lions to win 10 or 11 games. Vegas has the over under at 6 1/2.

It might be a pipe dream now but with the way they were playing early on it wasn't. I think all these close losses has really taken its toll on the team. There is no doubt if their record was better in those games they could be .500. As for the Lions no way on 10-11. I take the over at 6.5 and think this team will contend for a playoff spot but just miss out.

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Originally posted by Woodpecke®

I like reading what you write. I really do. So I hope you never think I'm being rude or nasty when I'm responding. My style is a bit direct, and sometimes people don't listen to the message. That being said, I agree with nothing I just quoted you on. Nothing. I am going to start a thread when I get time because I'm so completely opposite to your point of view. 180 degrees.

Woody, I think people read what you write. Your theory is that the Tigers should spend 85 million (or whatever figure you want to plug in) per year and all your suggestions for team building are based on that. My theory (and a lot of others here) is that they aren't going to significantly raise payroll soon and our suggestions are based on that. You are playing owner while we are playing GM. We are coming from completely different directions to start so it's almost impossible to agree.

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I still think the Tigers will win between 70 and 75 games.

And I'll be very happy with that.

If the Lions win 8 games, I'll be happy.

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Originally posted by tiger337

Woody, I think people read what you write. Your theory is that the Tigers should spend 85 million (or whatever figure you want to plug in) per year and all your suggestions for team building are based on that. My theory (and a lot of others here) is that they aren't going to significantly raise payroll soon and our suggestions are based on that. You are playing owner while we are playing GM. We are coming from completely different directions to start so it's almost impossible to agree.

I understand what both of you are saying. I might side with Woody a bit more just because of the fact the Tigers don't have the top tier prospects other franchises in the AL Central like Cleveland, Minnesota have. That is why I believe the Tigers for now need a payroll of upwards 70 mil to really contend.

Just for example Cleveland and their AAA teams have Peralta, Phillips, Sizemore, Gutierrez. All of those are on the cusp of making Cleveland. I don't think the Tigers can talk about players on the cusp with the exception of Sleeth. Minnesota has Kubel, Morneau in AAA.

I do realize the only way the Tigers get back to being a good organization is getting the farm system up and running but we are talking the major league team and if Dombrowski has dreams of 2006 contending for a championship that team salary better increase because I am pretty confident in saying that currently this team does not have the farm system to be contending in 06.

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Originally posted by tiger337

Woody, I think people read what you write. Your theory is that the Tigers should spend 85 million (or whatever figure you want to plug in) per year and all your suggestions for team building are based on that. My theory (and a lot of others here) is that they aren't going to significantly raise payroll soon and our suggestions are based on that. You are playing owner while we are playing GM. We are coming from completely different directions to start so it's almost impossible to agree.

There's more to my thinking than this, but your summary is excellent. As the years slip away and the losses pile up, the lack of immediate improvement continues. 106, 119, 100 losses. No break. There is so much wrong with the Detroit Tigers franchise, I have to try extremely hard to find positive things to say. Ilitch has everyone believing in the farm system route, mainly because Dave Dombrowski is the GM. I think your theory sucks. Not you, your theory. 4 teams to beat in a lousy division, payroll less than a hockey team in a great sports town, and fans should think that building the farm system should be priority #1? I think it's insane. We'll never agree.

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Originally posted by Woodpecke®

I think your theory sucks. Not you, your theory. 4 teams to beat in a lousy division, payroll less than a hockey team in a great sports town, and fans should think that building the farm system should be priority #1? I think it's insane. We'll never agree.

My theory is not that they shouldn't raise payroll. It's that they likely won't in the near future. This neither pleases me nor angers me. It's just the way it is. Maybe, I'm too stoic..... So, I talk about what I think the GM should do under these parameters. If they decide to raise payroll in the future (which I suspect they will to an extent), then my suggestions for team building might change.

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What could they do by raising payroll to $80 million that isn't as much of a risk as doing things the way they are now? At least by not raising payroll you remove the money angle as an excuse down the road.

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The best teams are usually built through the farm system. My theory is to build a core of above average players through the farm sign them longterm and sign players around them as free agents.

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