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OldTimey

Tigers Trade Ross to LA for Coyler

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Best looking teacher in my HS came back in the fall pregnant. That was a fantasy downer :dead:

Why? You knew she put out at least sometimes and you knew you couldn't get her pregnant.:cheeky:

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Why? You knew she put out at least sometimes and you knew you couldn't get her pregnant.:cheeky:

+1

Plus, pregger chicks are always in the mood.

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Unfortunately, I know of at least one that was virtually never in the mood when she was pregnant. :cry:

She avoided the thrust of your saber?

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We have a friend who is younger than us, late 20's. She's smoking hot. We call her "hot mama". Blond, tanned, in shape, etc. Looks like a supermodel. She's now a HS math teacher. When she was student teaching my wife would watch her young daughter. I'd always say "Man, wait until those HS boys find out they have a sub today and then they see her."

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GM of the Expos...

Here's the Tigers' rank in relief WPA since 1990:

2010: 19th

2009: 16th

2008: 27th

2007: 17th

2006: 8th

2005: 14th

2004: 28th

2003: 29th

2002: 26th

2001: 28th (Marlins: 27th)

2000: 8th (Marlins: 11th)

1999: 14th (Marlins: 26th)

1998: 17th (Marlins: 28th)

1997: 14th (Marlins: 11th)

1996: 24th (Marlins: 18th)

1995: 17th (Marlins: 23th)

1994: 13th (Marlins: 2nd)

1993: 18th (Marlins: 9th)

1992: 18th

1991: 8th (Expos: 24th)

1990: 3rd (Expos: 10th)

1989: 26th (Expos: 18th)

In 21 years as GM, DD has one year with a top 5 bullpen, four years with a top 10 bullpen, and nine years with a bottom 10 bullpen. I'd say building a bullpen is a weakness.

Interesting stat. DD has been with the Tigers for 10 seasons. He has placed a heavy emphasis in the draft on pitchers. He likes guys with big fastballs, presumably because they can miss bats. How has this translated in terms of performance at the MLB level?

In 10 seasons, the Tigers have ranked in the upper half of the AL in ERA (and runs allowed per game) only twice. And they have never finished in the top half of the AL in Ks.

At this point it's fair to say DD's ability to assemble a MLB pitching staff is below average. Trading Cody Ross for Coyler is just one more data point in favor of this conclusion.

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In eighth grade, I had a teacher who was a jerk. He used to give me a lot of crap for no good reason. He had to reduce his workload by one class for some reason and was replaced in mid-semester by the runner-up for Miss Massachusetts. She made history quite a bit more interesting.

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Interesting stat. DD has been with the Tigers for 10 seasons. He has placed a heavy emphasis in the draft on pitchers. He likes guys with big fastballs, presumably because they can miss bats. How has this translated in terms of performance at the MLB level?

In 10 seasons, the Tigers have ranked in the upper half of the AL in ERA (and runs allowed per game) only twice. And they have never finished in the top half of the AL in Ks.

At this point it's fair to say DD's ability to assemble a MLB pitching staff is below average. .

This is an interesting thought. Considering how much the Tigers have focused on pitching, their pitching staffs have been mediocre for the most part.

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This is an interesting thought. Considering how much the Tigers have focused on pitching, their pitching staffs have been mediocre for the most part.
OTOH, haven't they traded a lot of that pitching for bats, such as Cabrera, Sheffield, Renteria (whups), etc? That must be factored in as well.

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I don't criticize him for his trades and drafting. It's his roster construction. He makes good moves and has a big payroll, but his rosters come up short. He seems to be good a making big transactions, but is not so good at filling out the roster.

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I suppose that is the downside of "big transactions" - they can rob you of depth.

Once the injuries set in, there is nobody in the minors to take up that slack.

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This is an interesting thought. Considering how much the Tigers have focused on pitching, their pitching staffs have been mediocre for the most part.

This reinforces the theory that relying on pitching is far more uncertain than hitting/fielding.

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This reinforces the theory that relying on pitching is far more uncertain than hitting/fielding.

I agree. Building around pitching is high risk/ high reward. If you never see the high reward though, then it's frustrating. Building around position players will give you a better chance for consistently good performance. You need both of course but I'd rather see the long-term foundation be position players.

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Seems like I asked this before, but it is easier to scout and project pitchers, or position players?

Also, in the first couple of rounds, aren't some drafts better for pitchers, and vice versa?

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Seems like I asked this before, but it is easier to scout and project pitchers, or position players?

Also, in the first couple of rounds, aren't some drafts better for pitchers, and vice versa?

.

I'm not sure what I think about this anymore. In the past, I would have said that I believed pitchers are easier to evaluate because they have more of what I would call "independent" measurables. The pitches he throws are batter independent. You can measure that a guy throws 95 regardless of whether the hitter in the box is good enough to hit it or not. And even determine to some degree what kind of control he has. Of course it's limited to the the extent that some good young pitchers basically get away without even having to throw their secondary pitches, but in theory, if they do throw them the pitch you see is same pitch he is going to throw no matter who the batter is.

On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any very reliable test of a young hitter's ability to handle major league pitching except facing it. All the batter's results would seem to be very pitcher dependent. There is no lower level simulation of the pitch variety and command a hitter will have face to consistently for the 1st time in the majors.

So I would have said that DD's strategy of going for pitchers first was the right one. But maybe the wildcard is that if the incidence of injury for young pitchers is that much higher than for position players, then that would re-introduce the same -- or possibly even greater -- total uncertainty that you have with hitters. So maybe DDs scheme isn't going to work unless he stays lucky with injuries???

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.

I'm not sure what I think about this anymore. In the past, I would have said that I believed pitchers are easier to evaluate because they have more of what I would call "independent" measurables. The pitches he throws are batter independent. You can measure that a guy throws 95 regardless of whether the hitter in the box is good enough to hit it or not. And even determine to some degree what kind of control he has. Of course it's limited to the the extent that some good young pitchers basically get away without even having to throw their secondary pitches, but in theory, if they do throw them the pitch you see is same pitch he is going to throw no matter who the batter is.

On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any very reliable test of a young hitter's ability to handle major league pitching except facing it. All the batter's results would seem to be very pitcher dependent. There is no lower level simulation of the pitch variety and command a hitter will have face to consistently for the 1st time in the majors.

So I would have said that DD's strategy of going for pitchers first was the right one. But maybe the wildcard is that if the incidence of injury for young pitchers is that much higher than for position players, then that would re-introduce the same -- or possibly even greater -- total uncertainty that you have with hitters. So maybe DDs scheme isn't going to work unless he stays lucky with injuries???

Another factor could be the six inches between the ears of each pitcher. We have seen loads of talented pitchers flop. Possibly mental makeup might be another reason for the trend of average to below average pitching.

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I agree. Building around pitching is high risk/ high reward. If you never see the high reward though, then it's frustrating. Building around position players will give you a better chance for consistently good performance. You need both of course but I'd rather see the long-term foundation be position players.

Could the 2010 draft be the start of DD and Company starting to build the position player depth? A lot of solid hitters were drafted this year.

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Could the 2010 draft be the start of DD and Company starting to build the position player depth? A lot of solid hitters were drafted this year.

Really?

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Yes, really.

That's incorrect and shows a lack of perspective in evaluating lower level offensive prospects. Castellanos is the only legit position player prospect drafted this year. Brantly has a shot to be a third tier catcher, Holaday a defense-first backup, and the others are largely roster filler. I'd be shocked if any position players drafted this year other than Castellanos were MLB regulars.

If any drafts showed a look toward building positional depth, it was 2006 where Bourquin, Boesch, Strieby, Sizemore, and Newton were taken rounds 2-6.

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It's hilarious that this thread still exists.

I gotta check to see what I had to say. I know I didn't like the deal but I'm not sure of the degree of the hissy fit I threw.

Edit: Boooooo. Looks like I wasn't around when it happened, and didn't post on it. Glad we still have these old threads though.

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