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Hongbit

Lions and Stafford Agree To Part Ways

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34 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Yes

Nope, Stafford is worth more than 6 spots, but that is coming from someone who has seen too many #1's flame out.  The best guy on the board is VERY rarely the best player of that draft.  Hard pass from me.  In fact the more I think of it the more I would despise a trade like this.  The top 10-15 guys on the draft board are all good, I do not fall for all the hype for the "#1 guy".

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3 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Nope, Stafford is worth more than 6 spots, but that is coming from someone who has seen too many #1's flame out.  The best guy on the board is VERY rarely the best player of that draft.  Hard pass from me.  In fact the more I think of it the more I would despise a trade like this.  The top 10-15 guys on the draft board are all good, I do not fall for all the hype for the "#1 guy".

More often than not I would agree with you. The only two exceptions of recent memory that I would say are different are Andrew Luck and Trevor Lawrence. Now, will he be the best player in the draft? Maybe. Even if not, he will almost assuredly be in the top 5-10 barring a career altering injury. That much assurance is almost unheard of in today's NFL.

The only QB of the top four that I think have the chance to turn out better is Lance, but he also comes with the (I think pretty low, but debatable) possibility to be much worse. 

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41 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

SF is getting multiple 3rd round comp picks for losing Saleh and Mayhew. They could trade one of those. 

You're right, I didn't account for the comp picks.

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36 minutes ago, NYLion said:

They aren't trading Lawrence. You can downplay him all you want but generational QB prospects who will be on a cheap contract for the next 5 years is the Gold Standard of assets.

Maybe Jacksonville does something stupid because it's Jacksonville but it's extremely unlikely.

Stafford+#7 for #2+ something smaller is more realistic.

is there a number less than 0?  if so, that would be the chances that jacksonville would trade a great qb prospect on a rookie deal for a 33 year old injured good nfl starting qb.

thats insane.  jacksonville would never do that.  ever.

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30 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

More often than not I would agree with you. The only two exceptions of recent memory that I would say are different are Andrew Luck and Trevor Lawrence. Now, will he be the best player in the draft? Maybe. Even if not, he will almost assuredly be in the top 5-10 barring a career altering injury. That much assurance is almost unheard of in today's NFL.

The only QB of the top four that I think have the chance to turn out better is Lance, but he also comes with the (I think pretty low, but debatable) possibility to be much worse. 

Speaking of Andrew Luck, he was basically Stafford 2.0. If Trevor Lawrence is Andrew Luck, they just trade for an older version and get a top 10 pick. 

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8 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

The thing is, Stafford was good enough to win with and the Lions couldn't put the pieces around him. Think of all the QBs who have been drafted in the 1st round the past 12 seasons. Look at how many failed and are not in the league anymore. You don't just go out and get a QB like Stafford. It's why teams are willing to give multiple picks. The Lions have the league worst defense. Remember those years the Saints were 7-9 with Drew Brees? Look at the NFC Championship game. Everyone is heaping praise on Tom Brady and he threw 3 INTs. Stafford doesn't have that luxury. The Lions defense wouldn't have bailed out Brady the way the Bucs defense did. Then you have the fact he has had 11 100 rushers in his 12 year career. That's literally less than one per season. Drafting a new QB doesn't change that. 

Exactly. Draft a QB hoping someday he'll be as good as Stafford doesn’t make sense. If we couldn't field a team around Matthew, what makes anyone believe we can do it with a new QB? Is it having a new GM and coach? Because, to be honest, I've seen this movie several times and it always ends the same. But yeah, trade him because we care about giving him the opportunity to win. Something he'll never do here. 

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6 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I agree, which makes me feel better about bringing in a QB this year. Andrew Luck was the best QB in a generation to hit the draft, and he was never able to thrive because his offensive line was a sieve. A QB coming in will have decent protection right now on the left side between Decker/Jackson/Ragnow. If Stenburg can show something, or Dahl can be a consistent starter, you have RG set. Then you just need a RT when you dump Vaitai's awful contract.

-edit to add- I still would prefer a rookie QB coming in have a veteran starter they can sit and learn behind for most, if not all, of his rookie season.

I agree. Maybe that was why they signed a back up QB to a 3 year deal last season? Is Chase Daniels going to be our starting QB?

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2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Peter King thinks Jimmy Garoppolo and a 2nd is enough for Stafford. 

Sounds right. Lion fans may be expecting too much.

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2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Sounds right. Lion fans may be expecting too much.

A safety went for two first, A DE went for pick 12. 

Why the **** would the lions take a 2nd and a crappier QB on the same contract for Stafford?

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5 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

A safety went for two first, A DE went for pick 12. 

Why the **** would the lions take a 2nd and a crappier QB on the same contract for Stafford?

Age difference, injury difference and contract difference. Stafford has a lot of miles on him. I see fans talking about Brady playing into his 40's. But sorry, Matthew is not Brady. He'll play 3 or 4 more years, tops. I sure wish he wanted to stay, we could use that #7 on some defense. I see Diggs is an All-Pro this year. Is Slay also an All-Pro? Those guys weren't good enough to play on the worst defense in the league? 

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2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Do you trade Stafford and the 7th to Jacksonville for the #1 pick? Maybe Jacksonville throws in a middle round pick? 

I asked this question in another thread. What would it take to get the Jags to budge from the 1st pick. 

For precisely the reason Rapoport cited: It seemed clear that Bevell and Stafford clicked. 

If keeping Bevell was Stafford’s ultimatum, and they refused, I’m not sure I can ever forgive them. 

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8 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Age difference, injury difference and contract difference. Stafford has a lot of miles on him. I see fans talking about Brady playing into his 40's. But sorry, Matthew is not Brady. He'll play 3 or 4 more years, tops. I sure wish he wanted to stay, we could use that #7 on some defense. I see Diggs is an All-Pro this year. Is Slay also an All-Pro? Those guys weren't good enough to play on the worst defense in the league? 

Philip Rivers played until he was 39. That's 7 seasons. Stafford has missed 8 games in 10 years. He's been one of the most durable players in the league. 

Slay is not an all pro. He wasn't that good this year. Ironically, the Eagles may be in a worse situation than the Lions. 

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3 minutes ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

This sounds more accurate than the other version...

Yes. Bevell or his agent taking a parting shot at Detroit?

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12 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

This sounds more accurate than the other version...

Honestly it wouldn't have surprised me if Stafford had said he'd be more interested in staying if Bevell stays.  If a QB forms a relationship with a coordinator and is happy with him, why wouldn't that influence his decision to stay or go?

Now that doesn't mean if he had requested or mentioned this that the Lions should have kept Bevell just because of that.  It's just one part of the discussion.  I would have not ill will towards Stafford if he did say that keeping Bevell would make him stay and I have no ill will towards the Lions and Campbell et al if that was a condition to keep Stafford and they weighed the options and decided to get rid of Bevell anyway.

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21 hours ago, Buddha said:

dont follow that guy.  he's an ***.

Well he certainly has a family name that almost predestines himself to dickish behavior. Honestly that's a name that I would give to someone who acts dickish.

Like my former boss who was nicknamed "Petty McPettyson".

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17 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

More often than not I would agree with you. The only two exceptions of recent memory that I would say are different are Andrew Luck and Trevor Lawrence. Now, will he be the best player in the draft? Maybe. Even if not, he will almost assuredly be in the top 5-10 barring a career altering injury. That much assurance is almost unheard of in today's NFL.

The only QB of the top four that I think have the chance to turn out better is Lance, but he also comes with the (I think pretty low, but debatable) possibility to be much worse. 

I like Stafford I have always been a fan of his.  I am looking for someone at LEAST as good as him.  I hate the projection game, I hate it.  It is almost never correct so I stopped wasting my time on it.  I am not moving Stafford to move 6 spots to hopefully get a guy that is at least as good as him and maybe not for a year or 2.  Keep your pick @ 7 and move Stafford with out having to throw something else in.  7 + whatever #1 pick Stafford will get and maybe the thiird or 4th is better than moving 6 spots hoping like **** the guy you are picking at one actually pans out.  He flames out, we handed Stafford over for nothing and set the franchise back another decade.  Pick the best QB at 7 or even wait for that later first rounder and make a good pick at QB there and sign some washed up QB to mange next season and bring the rookie along for the year after.  Build the O line around him, keep adding to the defense.

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59 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Stafford to JAX for the top pick sounds really nice.

lol.  so does me winning the lottery.  neither will happen.

  • Haha 1

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17 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Age difference, injury difference and contract difference. Stafford has a lot of miles on him. I see fans talking about Brady playing into his 40's. But sorry, Matthew is not Brady. He'll play 3 or 4 more years, tops. I sure wish he wanted to stay, we could use that #7 on some defense. I see Diggs is an All-Pro this year. Is Slay also an All-Pro? Those guys weren't good enough to play on the worst defense in the league? 

Jimmy G isn't THAT much younger than Stafford (Stafford will turn 33 this offseason, Jimmy 30 during the season) and has had more injuries in significantly less playing time. He also has a worse contract.  I see no way the lions would take that deal. 

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18 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Age difference, injury difference and contract difference. Stafford has a lot of miles on him. I see fans talking about Brady playing into his 40's. But sorry, Matthew is not Brady. He'll play 3 or 4 more years, tops. I sure wish he wanted to stay, we could use that #7 on some defense. I see Diggs is an All-Pro this year. Is Slay also an All-Pro? Those guys weren't good enough to play on the worst defense in the league? 

A) 3 to 4 years is an eternity in teh NFL. 

B) Jimmy is over 30

C) Jimmy has missed way more games than Stafford. 

But more important something you completely ignored. Why the **** would the lions take back a crappier QB on the exact same contract, both are owed $20 million? Why not just keep the better QB? 

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8 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

A) 3 to 4 years is an eternity in teh NFL. 

B) Jimmy is over 30

C) Jimmy has missed way more games than Stafford. 

But more important something you completely ignored. Why the **** would the lions take back a crappier QB on the exact same contract, both are owed $20 million? Why not just keep the better QB? 

if garrapolo is attached then the lions ask for more draft capital.  i think sf would need to move garrapolo's salary to make it work under the cap.

but if youre the lions, you hopefully have better offers.

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garrapolo to the bears for their #2 and #3 picks.  stafford to the niners for their #1 and #3 picks plus the bears' #2 and #3 picks.

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