Jump to content
Hongbit

Lions and Stafford Agree To Part Ways

Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Look, it's one game of course but Eric Bienimey and Andy Reid are getting completely out coached. Not exactly helping Bienimey's coaching stock. Unreal though how bad Kansas City looks.

i'm pretty sure eric bienemy's sordid past has done more to torpedo his head coaching chances than anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BetMGM Michigan $600 Risk-Free bet

BetMGM Michigan Sports Betting
Michigan online sports betting is now available! Start betting at BetMGM Michigan now and get a $600 risk-free bet bonus at their online sportsbook & casino.

Claim $600 risk-free bet at BetMGM Michigan Now

5 hours ago, sagnam said:

Unless the Panthers or Broncos get REALLY desperate.

If teams get WAY too desperate and offer a HUGE package for Goff, Lions brass has to consider it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

If teams get WAY too desperate and offer a HUGE package for Goff, Lions brass has to consider it...

spoiler alert: they wont.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Goff is worth a first round pick. 

The Lions should not trade him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Buddha said:

spoiler alert: they wont.

Yeah I'm not counting on that...

Just sayin'...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

I think Goff's best is better then Wentz's best. That's why I call him slightly better.

Wentz has some better mobility, but less arm; add in the injuries as you've noted, and two less prime years... 

If I had a choice, I choose Goff over Wentz 9 times out of 10.

But the REAL key won't really have anything to do with one, or the other... It will be the ability to put a high level team around either of these QB's. Both need a strong supporting cast; both are NOT carry-the-team type of QB's... So this will end up being the determining factor for whether Goff is a success with the Lions, and/or if Wentz is a success with the Bears.

Disagree. Wentz was arguably the MVP of the league when he got injured in 2017, his very short peak was better than Goff's peak even though Goff's team went farther in the playoffs with him. I'd say that Goff is slightly better than him today but Wentz at peak form was better.

 That's probably why Wentz has a market, because teams see his high end potential. Personally, I think the injuries robbed him of what he once was but I guess it's worth a shot for a team like the Bears that haven't had a good QB since before the Superbowl era and no, McMahon wasn't good.

Also, the Lions aren't trading Goff. I truly believe that Holmes sees him as the franchise QB going forward. He'll have two years to prove that he is (he likely won't).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does everyone seem to think Jared Goff is terrible?      He's not.   He had a bad year with the Rams.    Stafford had a couple of those with the Lions.     From what I have read Goff constantly had McVeigh over his shoulder,  maybe that gets old.    If he's bad he helps the Lions get a better draft pick, but 33 year old often-injured Stafford vs. 26 year old Jared Goff with something to prove - is that really a major drop off?  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Why does everyone seem to think Jared Goff is terrible?      He's not.   He had a bad year with the Rams.    Stafford had a couple of those with the Lions.     From what I have read Goff constantly had McVeigh over his shoulder,  maybe that gets old.    If he's bad he helps the Lions get a better draft pick, but 33 year old often-injured Stafford vs. 26 year old Jared Goff with something to prove - is that really a major drop off?  

This has been my thought process through this whole thing.  Look he MAY very well turn out to be awful...for whatever reason, we have seen this before, young QB has a couple good years then just falls off a cliff.  I do not think that is the case here, but I guess it could happen..and if anything like that is GOING to happen, it is to the Lions.  So I feel the trepidation from the hardcores, but having distanced myself enough to just look at what should be and not worry about it blowing up....there is a better than average chance Goff is actually good for us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Why does everyone seem to think Jared Goff is terrible?      He's not.   He had a bad year with the Rams.    Stafford had a couple of those with the Lions.     From what I have read Goff constantly had McVeigh over his shoulder,  maybe that gets old.    If he's bad he helps the Lions get a better draft pick, but 33 year old often-injured Stafford vs. 26 year old Jared Goff with something to prove - is that really a major drop off?  

Often injured Stafford? He missed 8 games in 10 seasons and had one of the longest active start streaks in the NFL. Jared Goff is coming off a broken thumb in his throwing hand. 

Stafford was worse than Goff at age 26. Prior to Patricia getting fired, Stafford and Goff were probably the same. Those last 5 games really boosted Stafford's value. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, John_Brian_K said:

This has been my thought process through this whole thing.  Look he MAY very well turn out to be awful...for whatever reason, we have seen this before, young QB has a couple good years then just falls off a cliff.  I do not think that is the case here, but I guess it could happen..and if anything like that is GOING to happen, it is to the Lions.  So I feel the trepidation from the hardcores, but having distanced myself enough to just look at what should be and not worry about it blowing up....there is a better than average chance Goff is actually good for us.

Also,  I have heard this and you have heard this............OCs came in here and simplified everything for Stafford and I remember a game where the color guy (It wasn't Romo) was predicting every single play the Lions were running and pointing out that the defense knew it too and that the Lions used no deception and very rarely even used motion.   I think Stafford was more of a backyard football guy (2 completions is a first down) and as great as he was, I think it hurt consistency.   Goff seems to be the opposite of that - he methodically goes down the field and probably bores us to death, but it works (when he's on his game).     Plus Stafford vs. teams with winning records.....inexcusable record.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

Often injured Stafford? He missed 8 games in 10 seasons and had one of the longest active start streaks in the NFL. Jared Goff is coming off a broken thumb in his throwing hand. 

Stafford was worse than Goff at age 26. Prior to Patricia getting fired, Stafford and Goff were probably the same. Those last 5 games really boosted Stafford's value. 

Just because he played it doesn't mean he wasn't often injured.  Hey, he's as tough as they come, but played most of a season with a broken back.......tough as that is, it will catch up and probably suddenly.    He's been banged up a lot the last few years.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Just because he played it doesn't mean he wasn't often injured.  Hey, he's as tough as they come, but played most of a season with a broken back.......tough as that is, it will catch up and probably suddenly.    He's been banged up a lot the last few years.  

It's football. Players get injured. How many times has Aaron Rodgers broken his collarbone? Mahomes was playing with an injured foot. Goff had a broken thumb. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Also,  I have heard this and you have heard this............OCs came in here and simplified everything for Stafford and I remember a game where the color guy (It wasn't Romo) was predicting every single play the Lions were running and pointing out that the defense knew it too and that the Lions used no deception and very rarely even used motion.   I think Stafford was more of a backyard football guy (2 completions is a first down) and as great as he was, I think it hurt consistency.   Goff seems to be the opposite of that - he methodically goes down the field and probably bores us to death, but it works (when he's on his game).     Plus Stafford vs. teams with winning records.....inexcusable record.    

I have a hard time believing they would simplify things for Stafford's sake.   I think Stafford is more than capable of running a more complex offense, I too thought that often times the Lions offense was too vanilla compared to other teams but I don't think it was due to trying to simplify things for Stafford.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

OCs came in here and simplified everything for Stafford and I remember a game where the color guy (It wasn't Romo) was predicting every single play the Lions were running and pointing out that the defense knew it too and that the Lions used no deception and very rarely even used motion

no denying that has been a narrative. Hard to ever know who on the coaching staff is just doing CYA vs "where there is smoke there is fire."

What makes it interesting is the narrative out of TB that good as Brady is, Reid still had to be willing to change his offensive approach to  take best advantage of Brady's best talents and so TB came back a different team after their bye week. Every QB is going to be better or worse at some things. What we have always argued about with Stafford is whether the things he may not be good at - which tend to be on the mental side of his game and thus hard to quantify, outweigh the things he is cleary exceptional at, which are on the physical side and thus easy to see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stafford is at his best when he is allowed to go down the field.  Unfortunately he hasn't had the line for him to consistently do that so the Lions would run faster developing pattern.  I just don't think the quick slants or dink and dunk passes suits Stafford's gamee, to excel there you need to be really accurate(not just accurate in a sense of completing the pass but you have to position the ball perfectly so you can maximize the YAC) and while Stafford isn't inaccurate I wouldn't say he is a prime Brees or Rodgers either.  Bevell opening things up more downfield compared to his successors is a big reason why Stafford looked so much better the past couple years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Why does everyone seem to think Jared Goff is terrible?      He's not.   He had a bad year with the Rams.    Stafford had a couple of those with the Lions.     From what I have read Goff constantly had McVeigh over his shoulder,  maybe that gets old.    If he's bad he helps the Lions get a better draft pick, but 33 year old often-injured Stafford vs. 26 year old Jared Goff with something to prove - is that really a major drop off?  

"something to prove" is just sports talk radio jargon.  it means nothing.

goff was bad the last two seasons.  last year he was really bad.  there was an interesting POD podcast yesterday with a rams reporter who basically said the league adjusted to mcveigh's offense, so mcveigh adjusted but goff couldnt adjust with him.  so mcveigh got rid of him.

that doesnt mean goff is bad, it just sounds like he couldnt do the things mcveigh needed him to do to run the offense.  so he was benched and then traded.

goff is a solid transition plan after moving on from stafford.  the bigger question for this franchise at qb is why the **** are they paying $5.3 million to chase flipping daniels?

oh yeah, because bob quinn is bad at his job.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Buddha said:

it just sounds like he couldnt do the things mcveigh needed him to do to run the offense.  s

very funny thing - I just read the exact same line to the effect that when Brady got to TB he couldn't make all the throws in that offense. Arians adjusted to his QB rather than ***** about what he wasn't good at because there were enough other things he was great at to still win. We can judge the results of that difference of approach for ourselves!

It always comes down to the particular package of skills a QB has (or any other player presents but clearly a bigger deal for a QB). If he can't do enough things well to win, sure you cut bait, but if he can, and it's just that you want to do something else, then either you need to adjust your thinking or you better at least get a fair return to trade him other wise you are giving up good value for pique. It would seem LA gave up an awful lot to dump a QB that got a team to a SB. From the outside that seems like an odd way to build your team's roster value, but we are going to find out soon enough which it really was.

I guess the counter arg is that Eli Manning won a couple of SB and I don't think too many teams would have traded a lot to get Eli...xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Why does everyone seem to think Jared Goff is terrible?      He's not.   He had a bad year with the Rams.    Stafford had a couple of those with the Lions.     From what I have read Goff constantly had McVeigh over his shoulder,  maybe that gets old.    If he's bad he helps the Lions get a better draft pick, but 33 year old often-injured Stafford vs. 26 year old Jared Goff with something to prove - is that really a major drop off?  

Goff isn't terrible but he needs a very strong supporting cast to succeed. That right there is the big difference between him and Stafford. Stafford can succeed in just about any offense because he has a world class arm and enough mobility to navigate the pocket.

With Goff, you need to build an offense with a strong running game and offensive line so he can thrive in playaction. I can't see him succeeding in an offense where he's the focal point. I think this is why they brought Anthony Lynn in, to emphasize the running game and cater to the strengths of Goff. He can be really good if placed in the right situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

very funny thing - I just read the exact same line to the effect that when Brady got to TB he couldn't make all the throws in that offense. Reid adjusted to his QB rather than ***** about what he wasn't good at because there were enough other things he was great at to still win. We can judge the results of that difference of approach for ourselves!

It always comes down to the particular package of skills a QB has (or any other player presents but clearly a bigger deal for a QB). If he can't do enough things well to win, sure you cut bait, but if he can, and it's just that you want to do something else, then either you need to adjust your thinking or you better at least get a fair return to trade him other wise you are giving up good value for pique. It would seem LA gave up an awful lot to dump a QB that got a team to a SB. From the outside that seems like an odd way to build your team's roster value, but we are going to find out soon enough which it really was.

I guess the counter arg is that Eli Manning won a couple of SB and I don't think too many teams would have traded a lot to get Eli...xD

reid?  you mean arians/leftwich.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Buddha said:

reid?  you mean arians/leftwich.

Ha - yes my bad. - fixed it above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Why does everyone seem to think Jared Goff is terrible?      He's not.   He had a bad year with the Rams.    Stafford had a couple of those with the Lions.     From what I have read Goff constantly had McVeigh over his shoulder,  maybe that gets old.    If he's bad he helps the Lions get a better draft pick, but 33 year old often-injured Stafford vs. 26 year old Jared Goff with something to prove - is that really a major drop off?  

Personally, I think the national narrative caught me. If you look back on my posts when we first acquired him, I didn't like the idea of it. I'm lukewarm to it now, though I still hope they at least consider the three QBs available in the top ten this year. I'm a-okay with Goff being the starter for at least two years though anyway.

Goff being in LA, entering the playoffs with McVay, put a spotlight on him in a way that wasn't the case for Stafford middling around 6-10 with Schwartz/Caldwell/Patricia. When Stafford would underperform in a year, it was seen as whatever because the team around him wasn't good anyway, and who cares what's happening in Detroit (to ESPN et al. at least)... For Goff, when he underperformed, the team was still entering the playoffs, the team around him was good to great, and he was seen as a fault, the problem with the Rams, by the national narrative, even if his stats and performance really wasn't that bad.

If the roles were reversed and Stafford's down years were occurring with an LA team that was still winning a playoff game, you have to wonder if the trade partners could also be reversed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Why does everyone seem to think Jared Goff is terrible?      He's not.   He had a bad year with the Rams.    Stafford had a couple of those with the Lions.     From what I have read Goff constantly had McVeigh over his shoulder,  maybe that gets old.    If he's bad he helps the Lions get a better draft pick, but 33 year old often-injured Stafford vs. 26 year old Jared Goff with something to prove - is that really a major drop off?  

he sucks that's why.

He has no arm strength, he can't run and makes stupid decisions. He also fumbles a lot.

They gave up a 1st round pick to dump him.  I hope he is Decent here but Im assuming he will be terrible.

 

When Wentz is good hes 100x better than Goff.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Personally, I think the national narrative caught me. If you look back on my posts when we first acquired him, I didn't like the idea of it. I'm lukewarm to it now, though I still hope they at least consider the three QBs available in the top ten this year. I'm a-okay with Goff being the starter for at least two years though anyway.

Goff being in LA, entering the playoffs with McVay, put a spotlight on him in a way that wasn't the case for Stafford middling around 6-10 with Schwartz/Caldwell/Patricia. When Stafford would underperform in a year, it was seen as whatever because the team around him wasn't good anyway, and who cares what's happening in Detroit (to ESPN et al. at least)... For Goff, when he underperformed, the team was still entering the playoffs, the team around him was good to great, and he was seen as a fault, the problem with the Rams, by the national narrative, even if his stats and performance really wasn't that bad.

If the roles were reversed and Stafford's down years were occurring with an LA team that was still winning a playoff game, you have to wonder if the trade partners could also be reversed.

Don't you 6-10 Jim Caldwell.....................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Michigan Sports Betting Offer

Michigan launched online sports betting and casino apps on Friday, January 22, 2021. We have selected the top Michigan sportsbooks and casinos that offer excellent bonus offers. Terms and conditions apply.

BetRivers Michigan - Get a 100% up to $250 deposit bonus at their online sportsbook & casino.

Click Here to claim $250 deposit bonus at BetRivers Michigan For Signing Up Now

FanDuel Michigan - Get a $1,000 risk-free bet at FanDuel Michigan on your first bet.

Click Here to claim $1,000 Risk-Free Bet at FanDuel Michigan

BetMGM Michigan - Get a $600 risk-free bet at the BetMGM online casino & sportsbook

Click Here to claim $600 risk-free bet at BetMGM Michigan

   


×
×
  • Create New...