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Lions and Stafford Agree To Part Ways

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22 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

I have not seen Holmes make the media rounds to talk about the Stafford trade. You might expect a new GM to take a victory lap, so to speak, after making a massive trade like this... in his first month. 

OTOH, I guess they may not want to signal that they will or won’t still take a QB in the draft. 

Either way, as a fan I am hoping that we don’t have another GM like Quinn who would hide in the shadows and only talk to the press once a year. 

can't talk about it till its official. That's why the Lions haven't tweeted about it either

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19 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

can't talk about it till its official. That's why the Lions haven't tweeted about it either

Speaking of that,  what if God forbid Stafford gets hurt training in the next month or maybe even Donald/Ramsey etc. get a serious injury which would make the Rams reconsider going all in could they back out of the trade?  I'd imagine if its not official they could but I'm not sure. 

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2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Speaking of that,  what if God forbid Stafford gets hurt training in the next month or maybe even Donald/Ramsey etc. get a serious injury which would make the Rams reconsider going all in could they back out of the trade?  I'd imagine if its not official they could but I'm not sure. 

Either team can back out. Both QBs have to pass a physical and each are coming off injury. 

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

At the very least he's coming here with a pretty large chip on his shoulder. I think if he does have anything left, we'll find out.

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15 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

At the very least he's coming here with a pretty large chip on his shoulder. I think if he does have anything left, we'll find out.

If Goff regains his 17-18 form then this trade becomes a steal and McVay doesn't look so good. It isn't unprecedented. Tannehill and Brees come to mind. Stafford declined after peaking in 2011 and rebounded. Alex Smith had some good years in Kansas City after being given up on by SF. 

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13 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Speaking of that,  what if God forbid Stafford gets hurt training in the next month or maybe even Donald/Ramsey etc. get a serious injury which would make the Rams reconsider going all in could they back out of the trade?  I'd imagine if its not official they could but I'm not sure. 

I mean, sure... before it's official.  Once it's official it can't be backed out of.  You can't finalize the trade and then Stafford gets hurt and the Rams say: "Nope, we want Goff and the picks back."

There might even be some rules in place on what is a legit reason for backing after a deal has been reached in principle, I mean otherwise teams could do things to try and manipulate the market.  In a silly example, say the Rams offer the Lions 4 first round picks for Stafford, essentially setting the market price super high for QBs, then delaying the physical for whatever reason... waiting until other deals get done, then just backing out because they changed their mind before the physical is done.  I'd think the NFL would not want that to happen so there's probably limits on what would void the deal.

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4 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I mean, sure... before it's official.  Once it's official it can't be backed out of.  You can't finalize the trade and then Stafford gets hurt and the Rams say: "Nope, we want Goff and the picks back."

There might even be some rules in place on what is a legit reason for backing after a deal has been reached in principle, I mean otherwise teams could do things to try and manipulate the market.  In a silly example, say the Rams offer the Lions 4 first round picks for Stafford, essentially setting the market price super high for QBs, then delaying the physical for whatever reason... waiting until other deals get done, then just backing out because they changed their mind before the physical is done.  I'd think the NFL would not want that to happen so there's probably limits on what would void the deal.

Either team can back out for whatever reason they want. It's like when the Colts hired McDaniels and he just changed his mind. What you are describing though is collusion and would open up a whole other can of worms. This is the very first transaction of Holmes career. He would instantly lose credibility if he backs out. The Lions and Rams can do the physicals before the deal is official. Each team would need to give the other permission and I see no reason why either team wouldn't. 

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12 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Either team can back out for whatever reason they want. It's like when the Colts hired McDaniels and he just changed his mind. What you are describing though is collusion and would open up a whole other can of worms. This is the very first transaction of Holmes career. He would instantly lose credibility if he backs out. The Lions and Rams can do the physicals before the deal is official. Each team would need to give the other permission and I see no reason why either team wouldn't. 

Is the statement that either team can back out for whatever reason based on actual knowledge or just your opinion?  I genuinely curious cause I'd think the NFL would want to limit that.  Another silly example, but what if the Lions traded Stafford to the Rams without getting Goff but the deal wasn't official yet.  The Lions assume it'll go through as they've done their own physical of Stafford and so start the process of talking with Texans to try and trade for Deshawn Watson and get the deal done, but then the Rams pull out and the Lions are "stuck" with Watson and Stafford.

Just my thought but if I was the NFL I'd want the teams to file and official trade agreement with the NFL which would outline under which situations a team could back out of the deal.  Obviously a failed physical would be one of those deal breakers, but I don't know if I'd include too many more.

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1 hour ago, RedRamage said:

Is the statement that either team can back out for whatever reason based on actual knowledge or just your opinion?  I genuinely curious cause I'd think the NFL would want to limit that.  Another silly example, but what if the Lions traded Stafford to the Rams without getting Goff but the deal wasn't official yet.  The Lions assume it'll go through as they've done their own physical of Stafford and so start the process of talking with Texans to try and trade for Deshawn Watson and get the deal done, but then the Rams pull out and the Lions are "stuck" with Watson and Stafford.

Just my thought but if I was the NFL I'd want the teams to file and official trade agreement with the NFL which would outline under which situations a team could back out of the deal.  Obviously a failed physical would be one of those deal breakers, but I don't know if I'd include too many more.

The two teams have agreed to a deal WAY before the deal can be completed officially.  This is just an handshake deal between the two parties right now.  There is nothing the league can do.  The only consequence either team faces is the loss of trust by teams, agents, and players. 

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For reference
http://www.espn.com/nfldraft/columnist?id=1545117

 

Quote

The Vikings insist they turned in their card to NFL officials, indicating the trade, with about 32 seconds remaining on their time limit. But the league apparently did not have verification from Baltimore on its side of the deal.


The Ravens, while acknowledging the trade was agreed upon, contended it was not made official because they didn't speak with league official Joel Bussert.

"The deal was not consummated,'' general manager Ozzie Newsome told the Associated Press at Baltimore's headquarters. "A deal is not a deal until I talk to Joel Bussert, and I never talked to Joel Bussert.''

 

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32 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

I like our deal better,  sure the top 10 pick would be nice but then you're putting all your eggs in one basket.   If this draft ends up sucking then you're screwed.

I like the idea of having it spread out over the next couple years plus also getting the extra 3rd which could come in handy if we want to trade up in the 2nd this year.    

Also I think that 9 pick is in a bad spot cause I think the top 3 WRs will be gone and perhaps Parsons.   We could perhaps trade out of it if a team is willing to move up but that isn't a guaranteee. 

Bottom line I just think our deal gives us more flexibility on top of the fact I have more faith in Goff than I do Lock.

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We are an instant gratification society.  People wanted the best picks NOW.  I do not agree with that.  I like more picks to make the team better.

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Yeah 5-10 years ago I'd probably want the instant gratification of the 9th pick but I've gotten so used to long term rebuilds in Detroit sports the thought of waiting an extra year or 2 doesn't seem like that big of deal.   

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i would only want that pick over two firsts and a third if the lions felt they needed a qb this year and had to get into the top 3 to get him.  then package 7 and 9 to move up.

and drew locke is terrible.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

i would only want that pick over two firsts and a third if the lions felt they needed a qb this year and had to get into the top 3 to get him.  then package 7 and 9 to move up.

and drew locke is terrible.

Moving up using two top 10 picks would have been a terrible move unless it was to target Lawrence. Then again, the Chiefs and Bills did ok with their trade ups so who knows.

In any event, I'd take the two 1sts (which might not necessarily be low 1sts), a 3rd and Goff over 9th overall and Lock. I'm not even a Goff fan but even I can see that Goff is probably Lock's high end upside and those low 1sts aren't guaranteed to be low 1sts. The Rams could end up with a 10-7 record and miss the playoffs then one of those 1sts would be in the mid teens with another 1st still to come. Assuming they are low 1sts is worst case scenario and it's not like Stafford is an elite QB that guarantees playoff success for the Rams.

If Stafford or Donald gets injured, the pick could be even higher like what happened with the Dolphins pick this season. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL outside of Brady making Super Bowl runs annually until he's 60.

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31 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Moving up using two top 10 picks would have been a terrible move unless it was to target Lawrence. Then again, the Chiefs and Bills did ok with their trade ups so who knows.

In any event, I'd take the two 1sts (which might not necessarily be low 1sts), a 3rd and Goff over 9th overall and Lock. I'm not even a Goff fan but even I can see that Goff is probably Lock's high end upside and those low 1sts aren't guaranteed to be low 1sts. The Rams could end up with a 10-7 record and miss the playoffs then one of those 1sts would be in the mid teens with another 1st still to come. Assuming they are low 1sts is worst case scenario and it's not like Stafford is an elite QB that guarantees playoff success for the Rams.

If Stafford or Donald gets injured, the pick could be even higher like what happened with the Dolphins pick this season. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL outside of Brady making Super Bowl runs annually until he's 60.

Yep, I think it's just as likely those picks end up in the mid to late teens as they are the mid to late 20s like many people just assume.

That division is really tough.  Assuming the 49ers get healthy this year they could easily be a 10+ win team,  the Seahawks look prime to decline but  they still could be a 10 win team and the Cardinals look to be poised for a breakout and could be another potential 10+ win team too.

On top of their division they also got games against the Bucs, Packers, Colts and Titans.   Not an easy schedule at all. 

Btw when I say the 49ers, Seahawks and Cardinals are  all potentially 10 win + teams i mean that's what their talent level would be in a vacuum.  I realize that it's unlikely you're going to get  4 teams in the same division win 9 or more games.   

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There's also a little bit of a gamble too. Stafford could get injured and miss the entire season and the Rams end up drafting in the top 10. 

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20 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

There's also a little bit of a gamble too. Stafford could get injured and miss the entire season and the Rams end up drafting in the top 10. 

Yep, I love Stafford so I don't want to make it seem like I'm talking bad about him just cause he is no longer here but he's far from a sure thing. 

 He is tough as nails which is why he hasn't actually missed a ton of games the past 10 years but he has been beaten up alot and played through injuries that effected his performance.  

Also there is the elephant in the room that he does have a lousy record against good competition,  while I think that's unfair and more a sign of the crap he had around him I don't know that for sure.   

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Rams deal was substantially better than Denver offer.

Good work, Holmes.

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On 2/3/2021 at 1:03 PM, sagnam said:

Not saying your wrong, but this reference isn't quite the same thing.  The reference transaction here is during the draft so there are hard time limits.  Obviously this doesn't mean you are wrong, I'm just saying this trade (a trade of pick during the draft) is different than a trade during the normal off season involving players (and picks).

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31 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Not saying your wrong, but this reference isn't quite the same thing.  The reference transaction here is during the draft so there are hard time limits.  Obviously this doesn't mean you are wrong, I'm just saying this trade (a trade of pick during the draft) is different than a trade during the normal off season involving players (and picks).

But a trade isn't official until it is recorded by the league, no matter if both teams ADMIT they had a deal.  Obviously it's not the same thing, but the rules are the same and we've seen what happens when teams agree to a trade but it hasn't been made official by the league.

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I saw yesterday or the day before on twitter that Goff posted his "goodbye" to the Rams and LA.  I haven't seen Stafford do that yet for Detroit, I wonder if he's waiting till it's official? 

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I saw yesterday or the day before on twitter that Goff posted his "goodbye" to the Rams and LA.  I haven't seen Stafford do that yet for Detroit, I wonder if he's waiting till it's official? 

Stafford doesn't do social media. Kelly posted something before news of the trade even broke. 

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