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January 2021 Game Threads

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5 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Does it make much difference if they play out of control and lose 5-2? One game doesn't mean anything but the even strength D did look sounder - they just couldn't convert it into any effective transition offense.

I didn’t realize that was the only other option. Here I was hoping for a team that could at least figure out how to exit their zone or get more than three shots on goal in the third period of a game that they’ve been losing since four minutes in. 

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5 hours ago, drownwithyou said:

I didn’t realize that was the only other option.

that's the question isn't it? If it's the talent, yes. If it's the coaching, maybe not. If Yzerman looks at his talent level and says - my coach has no chance, that's a high bar to argue against. OTOH, look at the Tigers. Avila gave Ausmus another year on the basis not having good players then fired him anyway. Neither the record nor the players got any better under Gardenhire. Well the players probably got worse. Still I believe that at this point Ausmus' lack of success with better players in LA argues Gardenhire was still the better manager and not by a small margin. Didn't matter. 

Or look at Babcock - he came into a very strong organization and won, but looking back now do we think Babcock was really a great coach or just had a boatload of talent to work with in LA and Det? 

I guess the TL/DR version is that I think in the NHL coaches are 'scapegoated at least as much or more than in other sports. 

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We obviously disagree on this but I did want to touch on your reference to a hockey coach.  Babcock took over an Anaheim team that finished 29-42-8-3, then finished 40–27–9–6 in his first season as coach and went to the team's first Stanley Cup final.  They didn't really have that stacked of a roster though they were riding an unreal JS Giguere with ridiculous equipment.  There was a reason he was such a hot hire after just two seasons in the NHL and it wasn't because a 40 year old Adam Oates was dragging him to the finals as the Ducks' leading playoff point producer.

Is replacing Blashill going to make a big difference right now?  Probably not.  But at least for me the small sliver of hope that their play could improve a little under a new voice is enough for me to want it because Blashill shows me absolutely nothing at this point.  So the worst that could happen is that the status quo stays the same.  At least I wouldn't have to hear Blashill talk about how they just have to work harder on staying on the right side of the puck after every loss over and over again.  So probably part of it is just catharsis for me.

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It's reasonable to want another coach to yell about even if it's not going to make a difference.

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Blashill needs to go. Keeping him is just giving up. He is the personification of "losing culture"

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2 hours ago, drownwithyou said:

We obviously disagree on this but I did want to touch on your reference to a hockey coach.  Babcock took over an Anaheim team that finished 29-42-8-3, then finished 40–27–9–6 in his first season as coach and went to the team's first Stanley Cup final.  They didn't really have that stacked of a roster though they were riding an unreal JS Giguere with ridiculous equipment.  There was a reason he was such a hot hire after just two seasons in the NHL and it wasn't because a 40 year old Adam Oates was dragging him to the finals as the Ducks' leading playoff point producer.

Is replacing Blashill going to make a big difference right now?  Probably not.  But at least for me the small sliver of hope that their play could improve a little under a new voice is enough for me to want it because Blashill shows me absolutely nothing at this point.  So the worst that could happen is that the status quo stays the same.  At least I wouldn't have to hear Blashill talk about how they just have to work harder on staying on the right side of the puck after every loss over and over again.  So probably part of it is just catharsis for me.

Yeah - I don't mean to be defending Blashill in particular. I just don't see a new coach as making much difference yet. I guess it goes back the same arguments that have been hashed out for baseball which for me get summarized as: A bad HC coach can mess up/hold back a good team but at the pro level they are not in general going to be able make bad players into good ones. Now for sure a coach can take a player like a young Yzerman and teach/drive him to be an all around and more valuable player, but the talent had to be there. I guess if I were seeing guys on the Wings who struck me as having potential to be much better than they are, I'd be more on board that a coaching change was due. There was a time I might have put Athanasiou in that mold, but the org decided not so much.

Also I think in Hockey there is a theory that since it's an energy sport you can make players mad enough to play better, which was maybe part of Babcock's mystique, and maybe some of Bowman's too FTM. But I don't know if that is very sustainable - maybe one season? A coach has to have more than that to work with long term.

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why is franz neilsen playing?

how long until coach larianov comes on board?

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2 hours ago, drownwithyou said:

At least I wouldn't have to hear Blashill talk about how they just have to work harder on staying on the right side of the puck after every loss over and over again.  So probably part of it is just catharsis for me.

yeah - the requirement for coaches in sports with long seasons to do post game press availabilities after every game really doesn't do anybody concerned any good. I mean didn't you just watch the game?

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5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

why is franz neilsen playing?

how long until coach larianov comes on board?

If Igor Larianov could teach this team to pass even 10% of the way he did I'll take back everything I just posted. 🏒:shocked:

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the red wings arent very talented.  i dont see blashill doing anything to help with that or make them a better team.  

he's probably still here just because theyre ok with losing right now and will make the change after this season.

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Why did no one rally for Patricia to stay because of the team's lack of talent?  I don't get why Blashill gets a pass from so many.  You can lack talent, but still work hard, finish checks, play with intensity, win faceoffs, clear the zone, not have endless too many men on the ice penalties...the list goes on.  To me, it's not so much about winning this year, but laying the foundation for the future. How will this affect Larkin, Bert and Mantha if this continues? I wonder if the failure of all the draft picks is their lack of talent or the inability to develop them? 

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18 minutes ago, Kacie said:

Why did no one rally for Patricia to stay because of the team's lack of talent?  I don't get why Blashill gets a pass from so many.  You can lack talent, but still work hard, finish checks, play with intensity, win faceoffs, clear the zone, not have endless too many men on the ice penalties...the list goes on.  To me, it's not so much about winning this year, but laying the foundation for the future. How will this affect Larkin, Bert and Mantha if this continues? I wonder if the failure of all the draft picks is their lack of talent or the inability to develop them? 

I guess I don't see what you are seeing. Yes they lose a ton of face-offs but you can't coach a guy to be quicker than the other guy if he's not. The biggest thing I see with the Wings is that they are not talented enough to play fast enough. The opposition is always closing on them before they can get the good outlet pass off. And they are too slow or not strong enough to close on the opposition themselves when they don't have the puck. To me that is pure talent deficit. But we'll see. If they do play better this year Blashill will get more rope, if not, no question he's likely gone.

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14 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I guess I don't see what you are seeing. Yes they lose a ton of face-offs but you can't coach a guy to be quicker than the other guy if he's not. The biggest thing I see with the Wings is that they are not talented enough to play fast enough. The opposition is always closing on them before they can get the good outlet pass off. And they are too slow or not strong enough to close on the opposition themselves when they don't have the puck. To me that is pure talent deficit. But we'll see. If they do play better this year Blashill will get more rope, if not, no question he's likely gone.

I think there's more to winning faceoffs than just being "quick".  Some of the best faceoff guys like Rod Brind'Amour aren't exactly "quick" players.  Of course good hand eye coordination helps, but body position, the grip of the stick, ability to keep your eye on the puck, knowing your opponent's tendencies, having your team mates in the right position all play into it as well.  That's where coaching comes in.  Not saying they can win every faceoff, but if you're losing 75-80% like the Wings are, nothing else is really achievable if you don't have the puck.  They may not have the talent for quick break out passes, but just simply clearing the zone and not spending 45 -90 seconds in the defensive zone would be a place to start.  

Not saying a new coach would turn this current crop into Stanley Cup contenders, but it's been 5 years and Blashill hasn't shown any ability to motivate, teach or develop players.  I trust Yzerman in most cases, but this one has me bewildered.

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Hosting Carolina again tonight. 0-0 after 1. So the Wings still haven’t scored a goal this season but Ken Daniels assures us that the Wings have had a few chances. 

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Back in front! Answered after just 18 seconds. Own goal by Trochek trying to swat a pass by Larkin. 

 

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Mantha spends too much time looking like he's stuck in molasses. He's one player whose fire Blashill needs to find a way to light.

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I like that before face-offs the broadcast has graphics with names of all the players on the ice. 

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I was just about to say that the final minute of the Wings pp had zip and then ... the Wings score just after it expires. Wings less than 3 minutes away from a win. 

 

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2nd PP unit with good pressure and a goal. Works a lot better when all 5 guys are actually playing. Mantha might as well have had on a Hurricanes uni in his last shift.

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