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2017: jarad davis, teez tabor, kenny golladay, jalen reeves-maybin, michael roberts, jamal agnew, jeremiah ledbetter, brad kaaya, pat o'connor.

hmmm....not so hot.  two terrible misses in the first two rounds.  golladay was obviously a great pick.  agnew has been a quality return man for what that's worth in today's nfl (not much, imo). reeves-maybin has been a decent special teams player but nothing else.  not a good draft.

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2018: frank ragnow, kerryon johnson, tracy walker, da'shawn hand, tyrell crosby, nick bawden.

ragnow has become one of the best centers in football.  getting crosby in round 5 was a steal as he's been a decent swing tackle.  walker showed promise and then turned into a dud.  hand has been injured.  johnson has been a bust. 

overall it wasnt a bad draft because they got ragnow and crosby....but little else.

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2019: tj hockenson, jahlani tavai, will harris, austin bryant, armani oruwariye, teavis fulgham, ty johnson, isaac nuata, pj johnson.

for all the grief over hockenson, he appears to be a really good pass catching tight end who can move the sticks.  not a superstar game changing gronkowski/kittle player you would hope to get when you take a tight end in the top 10 of the draft, but someone very dependable.  that was a good pick.

the rest?  oruwariye has been getting better and while it doesnt look like he'll ever be elite, he is solid.  thats a good get for a 5th rounder.  everyone else in this draft is bad.  tavai may be the worst linebacker in the league and that's only because davis has been benched.  harris is terrible.  bryant never plays.  fulgham and johnson play for other teams.

unless harris, tavai, and bryant suddenly develop this will have not been a good draft.

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2020:

too early to tell.  but swift and jackson certainly look like good picks.  penisini looks like a steal.  cephus is round 5 has been fine.  the rest have been hurt (okwara), bad (okudah), or cut (hundley).

still a lot of promise there.

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33 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

It's just amazing to me that people think that inserting a different QB into this dysfunction will change the end result. It's like inserting a brand new engine into a Ford Escort with no wheels. You aren't going anywhere. 

We have been conditioned by 60 years of Ford management. That was the root of WCFs failure from the get go - the one thing he never understood about football was that you win with the breadth and depth of your roster, not by having a star or two in your stable. And building that takes leadership with long term vision and drafting smarts, none of which the Lions have ever had. Drop Stafford into a team that could block and tackle and survive the normal injury toll that afflicts every NFL team, he might not turn in Tom Brady but he'd be more than fine.

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RE: Quin drafts

There are fifty three guys on a roster, the average career is less than 5 years. You do that math and you need to find a lot of players every year, one or two additions or even 3 adds per year is not enough to move forward.

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1 minute ago, Gehringer_2 said:

We have been conditioned by 60 years of Ford management. That was the root of WCFs failure from the get go - the one thing he never understood about football was that you win with the breadth and depth of your roster, not by having a star or two in your stable. And building that takes leadership with long term vision and drafting smarts, none of which the Lions have ever had. Drop Stafford into a team that could block and tackle and survive the normal injury toll that afflicts every NFL team, he might not turn in Tom Brady but he'd be more than fine.

the fords never had any say in who the players were or roster construction.

the fords' problem was that they put bad people in charge of making those decisions.  and when they had good people in charge with talent, they let then leave (jerry vianisi, ron hughes, kevin colbert) and replace them with matt millen or chuck schmidt or - for god's sake - russ freakin thomas.

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8 minutes ago, Buddha said:

the fords never had any say in who the players were or roster construction.

the fords' problem was that they put bad people in charge of making those decisions.  and when they had good people in charge with talent, they let then leave (jerry vianisi, ron hughes, kevin colbert) and replace them with matt millen or chuck schmidt or - for god's sake - russ freakin thomas.

I think you are being too kind! WCF was not an absentee owner. He was around the team all the time. The Lions front office put the kind of team that WCF wanted on the field, that that was a team of Barry Sanders type solo players. Players to put "Fannies in the seats'. That was not a Russ Thomas quote, it was a WCF quote. His managers always valued flash over substance because that is what the boss wanted.

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16 hours ago, Jason_R said:

I think trying to replace Stafford is a recipe for disaster. I hope they are not considering it, I hope they are in conversations with him about the possibility of an extension, and I hope they have that in mind as they are interviewing GM/coach candidates. 

That said, if there’s a team that is ready but needs a QB, and they come looking, a combination of two top picks/players would have to be the starting point. Don’t think there are many teams like this... SF, NE, maybe Carolina. 

He'll be 35 when the contract expires, the injuries are starting to pile up and he has a lot more miles on the body than most other QBs his age due to starting in the league young and having almost exclusively an average to below average offensive line playing in front of him leading to him taking a ton of hits. Is it really wise to give an extension?

Look, I'm a Stafford fan but I'm trying to be realistic here. He's aging, his body is getting beat up and the team is a long way from competing even in a league where turnarounds can happen quickly. I'm actually thinking on behalf of Stafford moreso than the team, he'd be much better off if they moved on from him sometime in the next 2 years. Please give this man a chance to win, I'd hate to see his career rot here and it's quickly headed in that direction.

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22 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

RE: Quin drafts

There are fifty three guys on a roster, the average career is less than 5 years. You do that math and you need to find a lot of players every year, one or two additions or even 3 adds per year is not enough to move forward.

How many teams add more than 3 players per draft per year? I think there are unrealistic expectation for the later rounds in drafts but I would like to see how those drafts stacked up with the rest of the league. 

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16 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I think you are being too kind! WCF was not an absentee owner. He was around the team all the time. The Lions front office put the kind of team that WCF wanted on the field, that that was a team of Barry Sanders type solo players. Players to put "Fannies in the seats'. That was not a Russ Thomas quote, it was a WCF quote. His managers always valued flash over substance because that is what the boss wanted.

oh come on.  you think wcf was in the draft room banging the drum for the lions to take a fullback in james jones instead of dan marino?  nothing sells tickets like fullbacks!  or taking a tight end david lewis in 84?  terry fair over randy moss?

get outta here.  no way.

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12 minutes ago, NYLion said:

He'll be 35 when the contract expires, the injuries are starting to pile up and he has a lot more miles on the body than most other QBs his age due to starting in the league young and having almost exclusively an average to below average offensive line playing in front of him leading to him taking a ton of hits. Is it really wise to give an extension?

Look, I'm a Stafford fan but I'm trying to be realistic here. He's aging, his body is getting beat up and the team is a long way from competing even in a league where turnarounds can happen quickly. I'm actually thinking on behalf of Stafford moreso than the team, he'd be much better off if they moved on from him sometime in the next 2 years. Please give this man a chance to win, I'd hate to see his career rot here and it's quickly headed in that direction.

There's QBs in every draft. Wait until you have to replace him. Then when the time comes, you have talent to surround the new QB with. The guy had one of the longest start streaks in the NFL and finally misses time and suddenly he is broken down. All QBs have missed time. Look how much time Aaron Rodgers and Ben Rothelisberger have missed. 

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6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

oh come on.  you think wcf was in the draft room banging the drum for the lions to take a fullback in james jones instead of dan marino?  nothing sells tickets like fullbacks!  or taking a tight end david lewis in 84?  terry fair over randy moss?

get outta here.  no way.

You don't think a boss sets the tone? You don't think he had to approve trades like Swilling? What do you think he and his BFF Russ would talk about over their martini's all the time? He may not have been in the draft room but I don't for a second believe he wasn't involved in a lot of pre-draft discussion. I don't think you are giving the dynamics of 'leadership' (or it's lack!) enough credit.

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14 minutes ago, NYLion said:

He'll be 35 when the contract expires, the injuries are starting to pile up and he has a lot more miles on the body than most other QBs his age due to starting in the league young and having almost exclusively an average to below average offensive line playing in front of him leading to him taking a ton of hits. Is it really wise to give an extension?

Look, I'm a Stafford fan but I'm trying to be realistic here. He's aging, his body is getting beat up and the team is a long way from competing even in a league where turnarounds can happen quickly. I'm actually thinking on behalf of Stafford moreso than the team, he'd be much better off if they moved on from him sometime in the next 2 years. Please give this man a chance to win, I'd hate to see his career rot here and it's quickly headed in that direction.

if they think Lance has the ability to develop into a solid nfl qb (or even better) i can see them drafting him and stashing him for a year or two for the reasons youve said.  stafford is getting older.

in my uneducated opinion, i think this is a 1 qb draft: trevor lawrence.  everyone else is suspect and not likely to be a star player.  Lance is intriguing because he's raw and unknown (to me at least) and i'm sure he'll be compared to Josh Allen many many times between now and next april.

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Just now, Gehringer_2 said:

You don't think a boss sets the tone? You don't think he had to approve trades like Swilling? What do you think he and his BFF Russ would talk about over drinks all the time? I don't think you are giving the dynamics of 'leadership' (or it's lack!) enough credit.

i think you're projecting.  

im sure he does have to approve trades, but wcf never seemed like the type to take charge of anything.  he sat back and let others tell him what to do and then went and played golf.  he's a spoiled rich kid who never had to work a day in his life who never asserted himself in anything (how's that for pop psychology?), he wasnt making draft picks.

he certainly wasnt making fourth or fifth round picks.  come on.  he wasnt even in the draft rooms most of the times i remember.

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12 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think you're projecting.  

im sure he does have to approve trades, but wcf never seemed like the type to take charge of anything.  he sat back and let others tell him what to do and then went and played golf.  he's a spoiled rich kid who never had to work a day in his life who never asserted himself in anything (how's that for pop psychology?), he wasnt making draft picks.

he certainly wasnt making fourth or fifth round picks.  come on.  he wasnt even in the draft rooms most of the times i remember.

No matter how you want to cut it, the team had a particular character under Ford, which was big on marquee players and short on depth or breadth, and whether he created or not he had to acquiesce in it for it continue for decades, so I'm going to put it at his doorstep either way. In fact the tendency got worse as time went by so you have to argue he became less involved over time? That doesn't ring true - at least up until he became infirm and JR got involved more - which was also a disaster! 

Remember, it's not like WCF ever had any time-consuming outside interests like running a Berkshire Hathaway or something. Henry II put a system in place to keep WCF at arms length from FoMoCo management and  he left absolutely zero in the way of other legacies to show for his time on this planet. The Lions were basically all he had to do in life.

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7 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if they think Lance has the ability to develop into a solid nfl qb (or even better) i can see them drafting him and stashing him for a year or two for the reasons youve said.  stafford is getting older.

in my uneducated opinion, i think this is a 1 qb draft: trevor lawrence.  everyone else is suspect and not likely to be a star player.  Lance is intriguing because he's raw and unknown (to me at least) and i'm sure he'll be compared to Josh Allen many many times between now and next april.

With drafting QBs, even the #1 QB in the draft, it's always a risk and you're going to find flaws in every QB. Just look at the last 10 QB drafts which are very hit and miss, but at some point they're going to have to take one considering that their current QB is on the back side of his prime and only has 2 years left on his contract.

I was more replying to the poster who mentioned a possible extension for Stafford or in other words, committing to him long term. I just don't think that's feasible even if the Lions were contenders. With them not being contenders, it's even more of a stretch.

Ultimately, I agree with your position. Take the QB this season if they really believe in Lance or Wilson then redshirt him for a year and make a decision on Stafford next offseason. Either way, I just don't see this being a happy ending for Stafford and the Lions. It's pretty clear after 12 years that it's not going to all of a sudden start working now especially with such a patchwork roster that is littered with holes.

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16 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

There's QBs in every draft. Wait until you have to replace him. Then when the time comes, you have talent to surround the new QB with. The guy had one of the longest start streaks in the NFL and finally misses time and suddenly he is broken down. All QBs have missed time. Look how much time Aaron Rodgers and Ben Rothelisberger have missed. 

I'm not saying that they should deal him now, I'm just saying that they should start preparing for life after Stafford which is likely to be in the next few seasons.

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4 minutes ago, NYLion said:

With drafting QBs, even the #1 QB in the draft, it's always a risk and you're going to find flaws in every QB.

Seems like as long as many colleges don't run pro style offenses it will remain pretty easy to miss  on college QBs.

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40 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if they think Lance has the ability to develop into a solid nfl qb (or even better) i can see them drafting him and stashing him for a year or two for the reasons youve said.  stafford is getting older.

in my uneducated opinion, i think this is a 1 qb draft: trevor lawrence.  everyone else is suspect and not likely to be a star player.  Lance is intriguing because he's raw and unknown (to me at least) and i'm sure he'll be compared to Josh Allen many many times between now and next april.

If they draft a QB top 10 then they need to trade Stafford. You're inviting a QB controversy from day one. The first time Stafford throws and INT there will be calls for Lance. The first game the Lions lose there will be calls for Lance. If you're drafting a QB that high, just rip off the Band-Aid and move on from Stafford.  

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28 minutes ago, NYLion said:

With drafting QBs, even the #1 QB in the draft, it's always a risk and you're going to find flaws in every QB. Just look at the last 10 QB drafts which are very hit and miss, but at some point they're going to have to take one considering that their current QB is on the back side of his prime and only has 2 years left on his contract.

I was more replying to the poster who mentioned a possible extension for Stafford or in other words, committing to him long term. I just don't think that's feasible even if the Lions were contenders. With them not being contenders, it's even more of a stretch.

Ultimately, I agree with your position. Take the QB this season if they really believe in Lance or Wilson then redshirt him for a year and make a decision on Stafford next offseason. Either way, I just don't see this being a happy ending for Stafford and the Lions. It's pretty clear after 12 years that it's not going to all of a sudden start working now especially with such a patchwork roster that is littered with holes.

i actually think the lions offense is in decent shape, they just need receivers.  if golladay was playing i think they would have been more competitive.

the offensive line is pretty good with the exception of right guard, but no team's oline is perfect.  qb is good.  swift looks good at rb.  tj is a capable tight end who can move the chains.  they need speed at reveiver and then they should be pretty good.

but the defense is in shambles.  even worse, theyve been drafting and signing a specific type of player for a specific defense and theyre ALL BAD.  i mean, flowers is fine but overpaid.  they have dts for a specific 3-4 defense.  is the next coach going to run the same scheme?  if not, were back to square one.  even if they do, theyre so untalented and slow on defense that it will take multiple drafts and free agency to dig out of it.

that's why while i can see taking a developmental qb in round one, i would rather have them take chase if he's there at wr or parsons or rousseau on defense.  they need some defensive talent in the worst way.

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The Lions are a 5 win team right now. They were a Swift drop from being a 6 win team. With how competitive they have been for the most part under Bevell, maybe they would be a 7 win team. People act like this is a 2 win team. The defense is bad but the offense has enough pieces to carry the team when healthy. They have a top 10 pick likely to spend on a playmaker on defense. I don't think the turnaround is as drastic as some make it out to be. 

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Just now, Motown Bombers said:

The Lions are a 5 win team right now. They were a Swift drop from being a 6 win team. With how competitive they have been for the most part under Bevell, maybe they would be a 7 win team. People act like this is a 2 win team. The defense is bad but the offense has enough pieces to carry the team when healthy. They have a top 10 pick likely to spend on a playmaker on defense. I don't think the turnaround is as drastic as some make it out to be. 

i think they have a massive talent deficit on defense.

that said, turnarounds in the nfl happen very quickly, especially if you have a qb already in place like the lions do.  i'd like to see what a better head coach could do with an offseason of additional talent.

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9 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think they have a massive talent deficit on defense.

that said, turnarounds in the nfl happen very quickly, especially if you have a qb already in place like the lions do.  i'd like to see what a better head coach could do with an offseason of additional talent.

No doubt about it, but as it stands, this is about a 5-7 win team. The 0-16 team made it to 10 wins by their third season. This team has more talent. Hopefully Okudah can develop into a shutdown corner. I would try to trade the first round pick for more picks and spend them all on defense. Cut guys like Coleman and James and hopefully free up some space for a defensive player or two. 

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18 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Lions are a 5 win team right now. They were a Swift drop from being a 6 win team. With how competitive they have been for the most part under Bevell, maybe they would be a 7 win team. People act like this is a 2 win team. The defense is bad but the offense has enough pieces to carry the team when healthy. They have a top 10 pick likely to spend on a playmaker on defense. I don't think the turnaround is as drastic as some make it out to be. 

This team is no better than last years' team which was also pretty competitive in most games when you take a look at the numbers and just watch the games. The only difference is Stafford delivered a few more wins. Also, there were several wins that could have easily been losses so that cuts both ways. They are what their record says they are.

When you have a team that is among the worst in the league in essentially every defensive metric and still has a bad running game, it's a big fix. It's a team that gets beat up in the trenches routinely, that's a personnel and a culture issue. Not an easy fix.

In the NFL, turnarounds can happen fairly quickly but this just seems like a team that will be a few year fix. They don't have a ton of draft capital, not many trade assets and limited cap space. It's a tough ask to turn this team into a contender in the Stafford window. I'd love to think that this could be a playoff contender next season but I think that's a big stretch as things currently stand.

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