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Lions vs. Coach from New England they should have hired

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20 minutes ago, Buddha said:

exactly.  al davis drafted a kicker in the first round.  he was crazy.

and carson palmer was 31 when that trade was made.  when he was 33 he was traded for a sixth round pick and a seventh round pick.  guess how old matt stafford is?

markets are markets.  stafford is really good (imo) and should be worth multiple picks.  will they get it?  i doubt it.

id rather keep stafford and rebuild the defense.

Old QBs can win in the NFL but you have to be able to protect them.

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I think trying to replace Stafford is a recipe for disaster. I hope they are not considering it, I hope they are in conversations with him about the possibility of an extension, and I hope they have that in mind as they are interviewing GM/coach candidates. 

That said, if there’s a team that is ready but needs a QB, and they come looking, a combination of two top picks/players would have to be the starting point. Don’t think there are many teams like this... SF, NE, maybe Carolina. 

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1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

I think trying to replace Stafford is a recipe for disaster. I hope they are not considering it, I hope they are in conversations with him about the possibility of an extension, and I hope they have that in mind as they are interviewing GM/coach candidates. 

That said, if there’s a team that is ready but needs a QB, and they come looking, a combination of two top picks/players would have to be the starting point. Don’t think there are many teams like this... SF, NE, maybe Carolina. 

agree!

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Stafford isn’t that problem.  He probably is the best thing this team has going for them. The problem is this defense has so many areas of need.  If they were to have an opportunity to draft a young QB and pay him $5M a season for the next 5 years instead of paying Stafford $30M/yr, you can’t tell me that wouldn’t be intriguing for a new GM.  That savings would allow a rebuild to go much quicker and address many areas of the team.  
 

 

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But they won't be saving $30 million. If they trade Stafford, they save $20 million for the next two seasons and that doesn't include the $5 million for the rookie QB. $15 million in cap space the next two seasons isn't compelling enough for me to trade Stafford. 

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They could get at least 3 quality starters for that money if they spread it out correctly.   They would also get additional draft capital in any trade as well.

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They are going to sign three quality veterans on defense for what amounts to the average salary of a rookie? Not buying it. Then we have the fact that the QB replacing Stafford will likely be worse. The draft pick you use to draft the QB could be used for a defensive player so really you are netting two quality starters. I'm curious to know these pass rushers, linebackers, defensive backs that can be had for $5 million that will be the foundation of a defensive rebuild. 

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29 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

They are going to sign three quality veterans on defense for what amounts to the average salary of a rookie? Not buying it. Then we have the fact that the QB replacing Stafford will likely be worse. The draft pick you use to draft the QB could be used for a defensive player so really you are netting two quality starters. I'm curious to know these pass rushers, linebackers, defensive backs that can be had for $5 million that will be the foundation of a defensive rebuild. 

Buy it. Their FA defense signings of Nick Williams, Collins, and Harmon counted $15M total against the cap this year.    

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8 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Buy it. Their FA defense signings of Nick Williams, Collins, and Harmon counted $15M total against the cap this year.    

Those aren't really examples of a "foundation" of a future rebuild...

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They are 3 quality veterans or at least they were before they strapped on the blue and silver and forever damned their careers.  

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Cut salary somewhere else. Cut those three and sign a different three. Cut Trufant. Cut James. Cutting Vaiti alone would save $9 million in cap space. Funny, when I suggested Harmon was an adequate safety I was met with he is horrendous. Not trading Stafford for the likes of Nick Williams, Duron Harmon and Jamie Collins. 

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11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

Yes. This has been the issue all along. 

It is astonishing how bad of a coach Patricia was. Just willfully bad. 

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35 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Cut salary somewhere else. Cut those three and sign a different three. Cut Trufant. Cut James. Cutting Vaiti alone would save $9 million in cap space. Funny, when I suggested Harmon was an adequate safety I was met with he is horrendous. Not trading Stafford for the likes of Nick Williams, Duron Harmon and Jamie Collins. 

The thought was to trade Stafford and replace him with a drafted QB, at least 2 draft picks that you get in the trade and 3 veteran players that can come in and play immediately.   In this scenario, that is 6 players gained from moving on from Stafford.    

I’d love to cut Vaitai and expect they will after next year but it will cost them $4m against the cap to cut him this year.   

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39 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Yes. This has been the issue all along. 

It is astonishing how bad of a coach Patricia was. Just willfully bad. 

"you have to have a good qb to win in the nfl!  you have to have a good qb to win in the nfl!"

lions finally get a good qb

"we have to trade the qb to build the rest of the team!  we have to trade the qb to build the rest of the team!"

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7 minutes ago, Buddha said:

"you have to have a good qb to win in the nfl!  you have to have a good qb to win in the nfl!"

lions finally get a good qb

"we have to trade the qb to build the rest of the team!  we have to trade the qb to build the rest of the team!"

What do you mean finally?  The Lions have had a good QB for 12 years.  It hasn’t worked.  In fact, they are now regressing.   All options should be on the table in this situation so I’m not sure why people can’t talk about trying something different without ridicule. 

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1 minute ago, Hongbit said:

What do you mean finally?  The Lions have had a good QB for 12 years.  It hasn’t worked.  In fact, they are now regressing.   All options should be on the table in this situation so I’m not sure why people can’t talk about trying something different without ridicule. 

oh poor you, being ridiculed while also ridiculing everyone else.  lol.

the fact that it hasnt worked is because of bad drafting and bad luck.  if you correct the bad drafting, you will fix the problem without having to go find and develop another good qb.

the bad luck is just the franchise's cross to bear.

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35 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

The thought was to trade Stafford and replace him with a drafted QB, at least 2 draft picks that you get in the trade and 3 veteran players that can come in and play immediately.   In this scenario, that is 6 players gained from moving on from Stafford.    

I’d love to cut Vaitai and expect they will after next year but it will cost them $4m against the cap to cut him this year.   

If the Lions cut Vaitai after June 1st, they save $9 million. If you were expecting the Lions to trade Stafford prior to June 1st, they only save $10 million and half of that would then be eaten up by the new QB. 

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They have changed multiple GM’s, team presidents, coaches, and even owners over the past 12 years.  Nothing has worked.  Maybe it’s time to try changing the most important position on the field and highest salary against the cap.   

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8 minutes ago, Buddha said:

oh poor you, being ridiculed while also ridiculing everyone else.  lol.

the fact that it hasnt worked is because of bad drafting and bad luck.  if you correct the bad drafting, you will fix the problem without having to go find and develop another good qb.

the bad luck is just the franchise's cross to bear.

It's just amazing to me that people think that inserting a different QB into this dysfunction will change the end result. It's like inserting a brand new engine into a Ford Escort with no wheels. You aren't going anywhere. 

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10 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

If the Lions cut Vaitai after June 1st, they save $9 million. If you were expecting the Lions to trade Stafford prior to June 1st, they only save $10 million and half of that would then be eaten up by the new QB. 

You are reading the numbers wrong on Vaitai.   Any potential Stafford trade this year was always assumed to have a post June 1 designation.  

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2 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

You are reading the numbers wrong on Vaitai.   Any potential Stafford trade this year was always assumed to have a post June 1 designation.  

That's right. It looks like Vaitai is $9 million with a post June 1st trade. I highly doubt anyone will trade for Vaitai. Just release Coleman instead. He has a post June 1st cap savings of $9 million. I fully expect that to happen anyways. 

 

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will the final obituary on the bob quinn era read that he was actually ok at drafting - not the best but far from the worst - but just awful at free agent signings?

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2016:  taylor decker, a'shawn robinson, graham glasgow, miles killebrew, joe dahl, antwione williams, jake rudock, anthony zettel, JIMMY LANDES, dwayne washington.

that's a pretty good class.  we all make fun of him for Landes (and rightly so), but getting two really good offensive linemen, an ace special teams player in round 4, a quality backup lineman in round 5 is a darn good draft.  a'shawn was ultimately a miss but he did play well in spurts.

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