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This appeared in the NYT this weekend.  They are talking about the phone company Gores owns that charges inmates $15 a call.

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1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

This appeared in the NYT this weekend.  They are talking about the phone company Gores owns that charges inmates $15 a call.

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what does owning a company that takes advantage of prisoners have to do with "black lives matter"?  are only black people in prison?

owning a piece of a company that takes advantage of people is not a reason to take the ownership of a basketball team away.  i mean, i would love to get rid of tom gores as an owner, but i dont want it to be done this way.

what's next?  owner x's company doesnt have enough black managers so we take away his basketball team?  owner y owns a company that had to pay a large sexual harassment settlement, can we take his team away (paging mark cuban)?

speaking of cuban, during the whole donald sterling fiasco he was the only one publicly questioning why the nba would open this pandora's box, but the mob won and forced sterling to sell his personal property because he is an *** hole.  we'll see if the mob wins again.  

i doubt it.  gores will come out and make a statement about change and respect and blah blah blah.

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$15 certainly seems like an excessive price.  But I have no clue what is all involved in providing telephone service to inmates.  Maybe that price is justifiable.  

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34 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

$15 certainly seems like an excessive price.  But I have no clue what is all involved in providing telephone service to inmates.  Maybe that price is justifiable.  

well judging from the corporate response in which they are claiming that they are  (paraphrasing)  "moving toward providing calls at as low as $0.15/min" they are not making any attempt to defend $15. Not that 1.50 is really even reasonable for a 10 minute call.

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7 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Buddha brought up some good head scratching moments from Weaver.  A few more that confused me.

Why did they sign Deividas Sirvydis?  Everything I have read says he is not even close to being ready to step on an NBA court, and might never be.  Leave him in Europe and see if he improves.  If they had done that then they could have kept both Musa and McGruder.  By the way, his agent is Michael Tellem.  Was this a deal to appease dad?

The pick they traded to Houston with all of the protections?  It means Detroit can no longer trade its first round pick for something like the next 8 years.  Not a huge deal since they shouldn't be trading picks to begin with.  But a deal might come along that made sense to do so and now they can't.  I hate boxing yourself in like that.

 

There were a lot more confusing moves than those. The Plumlee contract (could have just kept Dedmon, $20M for Grant to put him a primary scoring role (a guy who is a #3 or #4 option on most teams), all the stretched contracts just to fit in the Grant overpay, adding four 2nds to the Kennard trade and I'm sure few others that I'm missing.

I just don't know what the plan is. This isn't a rebuild (yet), I'm not sure what it is exactly. I expected Weaver to add draft picks (started off decently with the Kennard and Ariza trades even though the Kennard trade was an overpay), sign some young talented guys who struggled elsewhere to short term deals like they did with Wood last season so the Jackson and Okafor signings made sense then sign some vets to cheap short term deals but leave cap flexibility to take on bad contracts with draft picks attached.

What we have now is a team with little cap flexbility and lots of vets taking up a lot of minutes. It was a confusing offseason to say the least.

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9 minutes ago, NYLion said:

There were a lot more confusing moves than those. The Plumlee contract (could have just kept Dedmon, $20M for Grant to put him a primary scoring role (a guy who is a #3 or #4 option on most teams), all the stretched contracts just to fit in the Grant overpay, adding four 2nds to the Kennard trade and I'm sure few others that I'm missing.

I just don't know what the plan is. This isn't a rebuild (yet), I'm not sure what it is exactly. I expected Weaver to add draft picks (started off decently with the Kennard and Ariza trades even though the Kennard trade was an overpay), sign some young talented guys who struggled elsewhere to short term deals like they did with Wood last season so the Jackson and Okafor signings made sense then sign some vets to cheap short term deals but leave cap flexibility to take on bad contracts with draft picks attached.

What we have now is a team with little cap flexbility and lots of vets taking up a lot of minutes. It was a confusing offseason to say the least.

i was fine with the draft day moves...and then the details came out and they made less and less sense.  and free agency was puzzling.

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4 hours ago, Deleterious said:

$15 certainly seems like an excessive price.  But I have no clue what is all involved in providing telephone service to inmates.  Maybe that price is justifiable.  

it's "justifiable" in the sense that this is what the market will bear because their customers have no other choice.

do we want to have society determine who can own a sports franchise based on society's momentary views on "morality"?  

that's a dangerous game to play.  

of course, joe tsai can own the nets and then tell everyone that hong kong lives dont matter, but thats ok.  nba cant tell the chinese what to do, just donald sterling.

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7 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i was fine with the draft day moves...and then the details came out and they made less and less sense.  and free agency was puzzling.

I thought this guy would come in, blow it up and go full rebuild. Not exactly a Hinkie type rebuild but focus on youth and adding draft picks. Instead he used up all the cap space on middling players, added dead cap for the next 5 years just when they got out from under the idiotic Smith stretch and gave away just as many draft picks as he acquired.

To top it off, they have an old coach in Casey who you just know will go vet heavy this season. Expect A LOT of Griffin, Rose, Grant, Plumlee and Wright. I'm concerned that Sekou will get phased out and lose all confidence. Oh and watch Christian Wood blow up this season into a premier scorer while Grant fumbles his way trying to something more than he is.  I guess we'll see...

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11 minutes ago, Buddha said:

do we want to have society determine who can own a sports franchise based on society's momentary views on "morality"?  

that's a dangerous game to play.  

I disagree. If the players and other owner have some legal mechanism by which they decide enforce a conduct standard on a private enterprise, so be it. How is it different than MLB telling Detroit that Marion Ilitch can't own the Tigers. Maybe Marge Schott  is a better parallel. (OK for starters MLB has anti-trust exemption - but speaking ethically/practically if not legally). And of course assuming the 'facts' are as they have been depicted, which may or not be true or as simple as purported.

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5 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I disagree. If the players and other owner have some legal mechanism by which they decide enforce a conduct standard on a private enterprise, so be it. How is it different than MLB telling Detroit that Marion Ilitch can't own the Tigers. (OK for starters MLB has anti-trust exemption - but speaking ethically/practically if not legally). And of course assuming the 'facts' are as they have been depicted, which may or not be true or as simple as purported.

mlb has a prohibition on gambling and owners associated with gambling (like owning a casino).  that makes logical sense even if i think it is a bit silly.  that said, i would get rid of it too.

 

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

mlb has a prohibition on gambling and owners associated with gambling (like owning a casino).  that makes logical sense even if i think it is a bit silly.  that said, i would get rid of it too.

 

I had revised the post while you were responding to note that Marge Schott would be the better parallel. She was forced out pretty much on an ad hoc basis. I suppose one can say the league hadn't  forced her to sell in any formal way when she did, but it was certainly moving to find a way to do so.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I had revised the post while you were responding to note that Marge Schott would be the better parallel. She was forced out pretty much on an ad hoc basis. I suppose one can say the league hadn't  forced her to sell in any formal way when she did, but it was certainly moving to find a way to do so.

marge schott said nice things about hitler.  tom gores owns a company that provides phone service to prisoners for a price.

its a little bit different.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

marge schott said nice things about hitler.  tom gores owns a company that provides phone service to prisoners for a price.

its a little bit different.

Well sure. What Gores is doing (may) actually hurt people in the here and now and what Marge Schott did just insulted them. Schott commits a thought crime (though granted Schott was probably also running a FO that was practicing discriminatory hiring practices-I'll give you that though you didn't raise it), Gores  (may) be profiteering on the poor and disadvantaged, a 'crime' with flesh and blood victims suffering monetary loss. What Marge did in saying nice things about Hitler is ultimately protected legally by the 1st amendment (ignoring the possible employment part), what Gores is doing (may) be legally fraudulent if a representation was made the the service would be provided at 'fair and reasonable' rates.

Again, purely hypothetical. Securus could end up looking like PR victim by the time it all comes out for all I know.

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15 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Buddha brought up some good head scratching moments from Weaver.  A few more that confused me.

Yes, some of the flurry of activity just seemed like transacting just to transact.

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12 hours ago, Deleterious said:

$15 certainly seems like an excessive price.  But I have no clue what is all involved in providing telephone service to inmates.  Maybe that price is justifiable.  

Is it out of line to suggest staying out of prison might be a way to avoid excessive prison phone call price gouging?

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8 hours ago, NYLion said:

I thought this guy would come in, blow it up and go full rebuild. Not exactly a Hinkie type rebuild but focus on youth and adding draft picks. Instead he used up all the cap space on middling players, added dead cap for the next 5 years just when they got out from under the idiotic Smith stretch and gave away just as many draft picks as he acquired.

To top it off, they have an old coach in Casey who you just know will go vet heavy this season. Expect A LOT of Griffin, Rose, Grant, Plumlee and Wright. I'm concerned that Sekou will get phased out and lose all confidence. Oh and watch Christian Wood blow up this season into a premier scorer while Grant fumbles his way trying to something more than he is.  I guess we'll see...

I feel a bit badly for Casey.  I would bet this isn't the direction of the organization that was discussed prior to his taking the job.  On the other hand, it was obvious this team needed overhauled rather than patched up when he took over.

I still don't have FSD and not sure I'll pony up for it anytime soon.  Maybe not having televised access to this pile is a good thing right now.

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

I feel a bit badly for Casey.  I would bet this isn't the direction of the organization that was discussed prior to his taking the job.  On the other hand, it was obvious this team needed overhauled rather than patched up when he took over.

I still don't have FSD and not sure I'll pony up for it anytime soon.  Maybe not having televised access to this pile is a good thing right now.

casey has a few million reasons to adapt to his new environment and do his job.

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3 hours ago, Casimir said:

Is it out of line to suggest staying out of prison might be a way to avoid excessive prison phone call price gouging?

That assumes everyone there has been convicted. Does Securus operate in country lockups and pre-trail detention facilities? I have no idea. But even if they are convicts, sentences are supposed to be determined by laws and judges. The state has no right to tack on what in a case like this might amount to incidental fines to a con's sentence.

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7 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Which owner is worse?  Gores for taking advantage of inmates or Jordan for taking advantage of sweatshop labor?

fair point.

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3 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Which owner is worse?  Gores for taking advantage of inmates or Jordan for taking advantage of sweatshop labor?

the sweatshop labor isnt done by black people and therefore is of no moment at this particular time.

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3 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

That assumes everyone there has been convicted. Does Securus operate in country lockups and pre-trail detention facilities? I have no idea. But even if they are convicts, sentences are supposed to be determined by laws and judges. The state has no right to tack on what in a case like this might amount to incidental fines to a con's sentence.

the state can also, you know, PAY for inmates to make a call?  is it that hard for the state to come up with money for the freakin phone bill and not have to farm it out to a private company that charges excessive rates?

nyah.  i wonder what costs tom gores more: the money it takes to clean up this public relations fiasco or the money in bribes he paid to state officials to pay the contract?

people dont care about prisoners or their living conditions.  if they charged them $100 a minute, the only thing most of america would object to was that it wasnt $101 a minute.   and god help them if they had to pay a big chunk of their tax dollars to feed them.

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Weaver's asset management was bad. I think he wants to assemble a team of high character guys who play defense and can establish some semblance of a culture while they lose.

And they are going to horrible with a great chance to finish in the bottom 3. I don't think they are delusional but bare bones tanking is tougher to do with the smoothed lottery odds and lesser value of back end first round picks.

Let me re-emphasize, the Pistons will be horrible. They just want to lose on their own terms.

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I agree there are some head scratching moves with regard to future picks and sign and waives. Still, Weavers off-season will be defined most by the biggest gamble and that’s the one I’ll be looking at the most. 

Jerami Grant No Matter What

This is a player that Weaver was around in OKC and then he watched him blossom in the bubble last year with Denver.   He needs to become in the discussion as a all-star caliber player this year and then elevate beyond that.    Weaver has gone out on a big limb that Grant is ready and able to be the man.   We shall see.    I’ll also be keeping eyes on Luke and Wood in their new homes to see how they perform since neither really had a chance to stay.   

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