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Betrayer

2020-21 Preseason Talk

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Figured I'd get this thread going with some quotes about the PG position:

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2020/12/7/22157950/detroit-pistons-killian-hayes-derrick-rose-delon-wright

Quote

Casey on Killian:

"We'll start him there and see how it goes. Again, he's not your typical rookie. He knows how to play."

"He's got the keys, but I can pull them back at any time."

 

Quote

Rose on Killian:

"I told him he's the future of the team. There's no competing. We're here. My job here is to push him and groom him into a great player."

 

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Well, they definitely looked like a team that hasn't played in 9 months with players that have never played together.

Saw some flashes here and there, but mostly they looked really rusty (22 Turnovers).  I'm not sure I like Wright as a starter. Svi looked like the more capable player at the SG spot. Bey looked pretty good and really got clicking at the end. Doumbouya...I just don't know...honestly, Bey already looks like a more NBA ready player and I'm beginning to wonder what Doumbouya's calling card will be. I guess time will tell.

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I know he was young for his draft class but Sekou has to play so we can find out what we have.  He played 11 minutes last night.  We already know we are going to be one of the worst teams in the league...play the guys you think might be a part of your future. 

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32 minutes ago, Hart said:

I know he was young for his draft class but Sekou has to play so we can find out what we have.  I know it's preseason but he played 11 minutes last night.  We already know we are going to be one of the worst teams in the league...play the guys you think might be a part of your future.  

Interesting article by Edwards behind the paywall on The Athletic.  He’s already throwing it out there that Bey may have made Sekou expendable.

Here’s a small snippet: 

Bey outshined Sekou Doumbouya, who was the No. 15 pick last season, and I wonder if Bey’s presence and praise from the front office and coaching staff mean trouble for Doumbouya’s future with the organization. Bey, with a year less of NBA experience, appeared a bit more polished and reliable. Doumbouya, who has only played basketball for seven years, still hasn’t appeared to find anything he does well or something that makes him deserving of minutes outside of the fact the organization is pivoting toward youth. 
 

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12 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Well, they definitely looked like a team that hasn't played in 9 months with players that have never played together.

Saw some flashes here and there, but mostly they looked really rusty (22 Turnovers).  I'm not sure I like Wright as a starter. Svi looked like the more capable player at the SG spot. Bey looked pretty good and really got clicking at the end. Doumbouya...I just don't know...honestly, Bey already looks like a more NBA ready player and I'm beginning to wonder what Doumbouya's calling card will be. I guess time will tell.

bey is older than sekou.

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21 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Interesting article by Edwards behind the paywall on The Athletic.  He’s already throwing it out there that Bey may have made Sekou expendable.

Here’s a small snippet: 

Bey outshined Sekou Doumbouya, who was the No. 15 pick last season, and I wonder if Bey’s presence and praise from the front office and coaching staff mean trouble for Doumbouya’s future with the organization. Bey, with a year less of NBA experience, appeared a bit more polished and reliable. Doumbouya, who has only played basketball for seven years, still hasn’t appeared to find anything he does well or something that makes him deserving of minutes outside of the fact the organization is pivoting toward youth. 
 

I would think you would want to give Sekou the backup power forward minutes.  Not sure Bey would be the one blocking him.  

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On 12/11/2020 at 10:37 PM, Betrayer said:

Well, they definitely looked like a team that hasn't played in 9 months with players that have never played together.

Saw some flashes here and there, but mostly they looked really rusty (22 Turnovers).  I'm not sure I like Wright as a starter. Svi looked like the more capable player at the SG spot. Bey looked pretty good and really got clicking at the end. Doumbouya...I just don't know...honestly, Bey already looks like a more NBA ready player and I'm beginning to wonder what Doumbouya's calling card will be. I guess time will tell.

Sekou with 23 points in 18 minutes tonight.  +15.

Bey had 2 points.

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Some preseason observations:

1) It's preseason so it doesn't matter.

2) That said, Blake looks really old.  He just can't jump anymore.  If we think someone is taking Blake off our hands for any type of asset, we're nuts.  They are either going to have to take a big huge mistake contract back or stick an asset on him if they want to trade him.

3) The rookies:

Hayes: comes as advertised.  Great court vision and passing.  He found guys open all over the place.  Great length too.  But that shot...oy vey.  That's going to take some work.  Get ready for people to sag way off him once the games start to count.

Bey: Didn't see much of him in game 2.  Kind of invisible.

Stewart: You could see why they drafted him.  He's active.  He gets after the ball on rebounds and he's an active, willing defender.  But you can also see why people question the pick.  He is going to have problems scoring in the paint against length.  He couldn't get the ball over Mitchell Robinson.  He's not explosive enough.

Sekou: You can see the good and the bad with Sekou too.  He does some things well: eurostep, shoot the corner three, and he makes cuts aggressively on offense.  Everyone else is standing around and Sekou is cutting.  He's also a willing defender but still doesn't know what he's doing.  He gets lost a lot.

The bottom line is that they're all really young with room to grow, and that while they do it this team and this season are going to be bad.  

Real bad.

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Hayes needs to fix that shot, it's not even close to being acceptable at this point. The form isn't even that bad but the release is... yikes. Other than that, there's a lot to like about his game.

They need to give Sekou a bigger role this season. He's the most talented player on the team and he seems to play better when he gets the green light to play through his mistakes. I'm concerned that his minutes will be eaten up by Grant and Bey (mostly Grant) and he'll become an afterthought as the season wears on then be moved to another team and flourish. We'll see.

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Nice game by Sekou.  Good to see him come out and show what he's got.  Being smart and active will get you far and he seems to know where to be when he's needed on offense.  Big difference from Game 1.  He also made some solid defensive plays, though he did struggle with Randle's size.

The key to Sekou getting more minutes is trading Blake.  He's going to eat up 25-30 minutes a night at the PF spot.  Without him you could slide Grant over and start Sekou. My guess is that Blake will be showcased in the first half of the season and then traded before the deadline if he's still healthy - and if not, then you solved the lineup problem a different way.

Also good to see Jackson have a decent game.

I still don't see Wright as the starter, but maybe Casey wants Svi's shooting off the bench since there are enough guys willing to take a shot in the starting lineup.

Hayes looked way more comfortable in this game.

 

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I would say we look to be well on our way to Cade Cunningham but let's be real were never winning the lottery no matter where we end up finishing.   

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i just dont see what they can get for blake.  he's going to be making $33 million or so for a guy on his last legs.  maybe someone needs salary cap space in two years, but youre either getting junk back or youre giving up an asset to have someone take his deal.

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nba insider predictions has the pistons with the worst record in the east.  22 wins, tied with cleveland.

they also voted the pistons as having the worst offseason.  

i was happy with the draft and can kind of see what theyre trying to do, but after a strong start i felt they made a bunch of moves that didnt make a lot of sense.  trading for guys just to stretch them didnt make much sense to me when you opened up space for plumlee and grant.

if a team like the pistons has space, they should be using it to take on bad contracts from other teams in order to get assets, not to be signing your own bad contracts.

so i like hayes and bey and i dont mind getting rid of the dead weight around here, but part of me feels weve just added a bunch more dead weight.

here's looking forward to being disappointed when we have the worst record in the league and pick 5th!

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23 hours ago, Buddha said:

Some preseason observations:

1) It's preseason so it doesn't matter.

2) That said, Blake looks really old.  He just can't jump anymore.  If we think someone is taking Blake off our hands for any type of asset, we're nuts.  They are either going to have to take a big huge mistake contract back or stick an asset on him if they want to trade him.

3) The rookies:

Hayes: comes as advertised.  Great court vision and passing.  He found guys open all over the place.  Great length too.  But that shot...oy vey.  That's going to take some work.  Get ready for people to sag way off him once the games start to count.

Bey: Didn't see much of him in game 2.  Kind of invisible.

Stewart: You could see why they drafted him.  He's active.  He gets after the ball on rebounds and he's an active, willing defender.  But you can also see why people question the pick.  He is going to have problems scoring in the paint against length.  He couldn't get the ball over Mitchell Robinson.  He's not explosive enough.

Sekou: You can see the good and the bad with Sekou too.  He does some things well: eurostep, shoot the corner three, and he makes cuts aggressively on offense.  Everyone else is standing around and Sekou is cutting.  He's also a willing defender but still doesn't know what he's doing.  He gets lost a lot.

The bottom line is that they're all really young with room to grow, and that while they do it this team and this season are going to be bad.  

Real bad.

I agree with everything you said about Hayes.  The shot is worrisome.  The misses are not real close and are ugly looking bricks.  The scouting reports were mixed on his shooting but to me, it looks like a real weakness.  I'd be curious what knowledgable shooting coaches think about his form.  The rotation on the ball looks okay to me but it was hard to tell.  

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10 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Nice game by Sekou.  Good to see him come out and show what he's got.  Being smart and active will get you far and he seems to know where to be when he's needed on offense.  Big difference from Game 1.  He also made some solid defensive plays, though he did struggle with Randle's size.

The key to Sekou getting more minutes is trading Blake.  He's going to eat up 25-30 minutes a night at the PF spot.  Without him you could slide Grant over and start Sekou. My guess is that Blake will be showcased in the first half of the season and then traded before the deadline if he's still healthy - and if not, then you solved the lineup problem a different way.

Also good to see Jackson have a decent game.

I still don't see Wright as the starter, but maybe Casey wants Svi's shooting off the bench since there are enough guys willing to take a shot in the starting lineup.

Hayes looked way more comfortable in this game.

 

Jackson was well worth the risk as a reclamation project.  I'm not quote sure how he is a sub 30% career three point shooter.  I am assuming all the turbulence in his life got carried onto the court.  Hopefully he has matured and can realize some of his potential.  He really is not all that different than Saddiq Bey except Jackson is more athletic than Bey.  

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1 hour ago, Hart said:

Jackson was well worth the risk as a reclamation project.  I'm not quote sure how he is a sub 30% career three point shooter.  I am assuming all the turbulence in his life got carried onto the court.  Hopefully he has matured and can realize some of his potential.  He really is not all that different than Saddiq Bey except Jackson is more athletic than Bey.  

And Saddiq is built like Crowder.

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Two nice games in a row Sekou.  That's encouraging.  He looks really good.

I thought Josh Jackson was kind of ball hog tonight but he did put up a nice stat line.  I can see a little more now though why other teams took a pass on him.

I am more excited about Hayes than I was on draft day.  The three point shot is broke but I like everything else I see.  Works hard on defense and is disruptive with his length.  

I think Grant is trying to do too much at times because of the contract he just signed.  He is definitely not a playmaker and it led to 4 turnovers tonight.  He was able to at least knock down some three pointers and I can see why people said the Nuggets will miss him.

I still don't like the Plumlee contract but I do like him a heck of a lot more than Okafor out there.  I can see why Weaver went after him.  He's better than I thought he was.  

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It was a pretty fun game to watch at most times.  The ball was zipping around and people were finding the open man.  Defense was solid as well.  You can see all that length come into play when things are clicking.

I thought Josh Jackson looked really good on both sides of the ball, same with Sekou.  Hayes is still learning, but he'll get there.  He works on defense regardless of his offensive woes, and that makes me happy.  Grant is definitely forcing it, but I'm sure he'll settle in.  He's never been much of a rebounder, but I think we'll need him to step up in that regard this year.

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53 minutes ago, Buddha said:

the pistons traded brown for musa and then waived musa.  brilliant.

Its a little disingenuous to frame the Brown trade as a one for one, isn't it?

image.png.808d918960c686e9743274c8c40afd97.png

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

Its a little disingenuous to frame the Brown trade as a one for one, isn't it?

image.png.808d918960c686e9743274c8c40afd97.png

"disingenuous"?  lol.

then waive macgruder and not musa.  you're not going to compete this year.  you should be tanking.  why waive a 21 year old kid who might develop into a shooter while keeping a 29 year old journeyman because he can play defense?

not to mention trading every second round pick you have.  not to further mention trading for guys just to stretch them so you have more cap space to sign...checks notes...mason plumlee and jerami grant?

bey and stewart better be really freaking good.  

and i actually like what they did in the draft, lol.  but the salary cap moves and the free agent signings leave me a bit confused.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

"disingenuous"?  lol.

then waive macgruder and not musa.  you're not going to compete this year.  you should be tanking.  why waive a 21 year old kid who might develop into a shooter while keeping a 29 year old journeyman because he can play defense?

not to mention trading every second round pick you have.  not to further mention trading for guys just to stretch them so you have more cap space to sign...checks notes...mason plumlee and jerami grant?

bey and stewart better be really freaking good.  

and i actually like what they did in the draft, lol.  but the salary cap moves and the free agent signings leave me a bit confused.

I'm guessing they value McGruder's contract.  

Next season is a huge free agent year.  He is due $5M and none of it is guaranteed until July 14th, 2021.  Teams might come calling for McGruder if they need a few more million in space to complete a big free agent deal.  With him being owed $5M the Pistons could take back $6.1M in contracts creating that much cap space for the other team.  In the past teams like Houston have traded away 1st round picks to create cap space to sign guys, Chris Paul being an example.

Strictly talking basketball, I'm with you and would have preferred to keep Musa.  He was highly regarded as a big wing that can shoot in Europe.  He put up big numbers in the G-League.  This roster should be full of reclamation projects like that IMO.

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1 minute ago, Deleterious said:

I'm guessing they value McGruder's contract.  

Next season is a huge free agent year.  He is due $5M and none of it is guaranteed until July 14th, 2021.  Teams might come calling for McGruder if they need a few more million in space to complete a big free agent deal.  With him being owed $5M the Pistons could take back $6.1M in contracts creating that much cap space for the other team.  In the past teams like Houston have traded away 1st round picks to create cap space to sign guys, Chris Paul being an example.

Strictly talking basketball, I'm with you and would have preferred to keep Musa.  He was highly regarded as a big wing that can shoot in Europe.  He put up big numbers in the G-League.  This roster should be full of reclamation projects like that IMO.

i have an unsettling feeling that they value macgruder because he can play defense, and casey wants guys who can plat defense.  but i hope youre right and there is a plan in place for the future.

if that last preseason game is any indication, we could be in for a long year of 10 minutes or less from sekou and bey as casey chases wins by playing blake, rose, plumlee, and grant 35 minutes a night.

i mean, they wont actually get the wins, but 10 teams make the playoffs this year, i hope they dont end up using that as an excuse not to play the young players.

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Buddha brought up some good head scratching moments from Weaver.  A few more that confused me.

Why did they sign Deividas Sirvydis?  Everything I have read says he is not even close to being ready to step on an NBA court, and might never be.  Leave him in Europe and see if he improves.  If they had done that then they could have kept both Musa and McGruder.  By the way, his agent is Michael Tellem.  Was this a deal to appease dad?

The pick they traded to Houston with all of the protections?  It means Detroit can no longer trade its first round pick for something like the next 8 years.  Not a huge deal since they shouldn't be trading picks to begin with.  But a deal might come along that made sense to do so and now they can't.  I hate boxing yourself in like that.

 

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