Jump to content
Mr.TaterSalad

Next GM/Coach chatter (formerly: Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn fired)

Recommended Posts

31 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i regard wr as a premium position in today's nfl.  And the lions have nothing on the roster next year at receiver except cephus and he doesnt appear to be any good.

i havent done my research (ha!) on the draft yet but if there is a julio jones type receiver out there, that would be worth a top 5 pick.

as cruzer always like to say, the lions are SLOW.  we need speed, baby!  

I think they'll franchise Golladay at the very least. It should be fairly easy to sign a #2 WR to replace Jones. As we've seen over the years, the Lions have had little issue stocking up on receivers most of which were free agent signings or later round picks, Calvin notwithstanding. I think Cephus could be good, he's done a decent job at getting open in his limited reps but seems to have a bit of a case of the butter fingers unfortunately. 

If there was an elite level prospect like Jones available, I'd consider it depending on where the Lions wind up drafting but I'd prioritize other positions over receiver. They desperately need to beef up the Front 7 and QB needs to be a strong consideration even if they keep Stafford for another year. I'd prefer to target receiver in one of the other rounds, lots of good receivers are usually available outside of the 1st (Metcalf and Jefferson are two recent examples, there's many more).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BetRivers Michigan Sports Betting

BetRivers Michigan $50 Launch Offer

Michigan online sports betting is launching in January 2021. Pre-register at BetRivers Sportsbook and get a free $50 bonus at their online sportsbook & casino with no deposit necessary.

Claim $50 at BetRivers Michigan Now

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Every player on Patricia’s defense has underperformed. Give the kid a break. 

I agree, but for whatever reason he hasn't had an impact on the defense. 

Given how unsuccessful Patricia's scheme has been, there may be a few guys on the current defense that have  more value than it currently appears. They need speed as others have said, but it wouldn't surprise me to have a competent d-coordinator come in and with a few moves have a league average unit next year. They lack impact guys so I don't expect a top 10 defense, but good enough to win some games with an average or better offense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I think they'll franchise Golladay at the very least. It should be fairly easy to sign a #2 WR to replace Jones. As we've seen over the years, the Lions have had little issue stocking up on receivers most of which were free agent signings or later round picks, Calvin notwithstanding. I think Cephus could be good, he's done a decent job at getting open in his limited reps but seems to have a bit of a case of the butter fingers unfortunately. 

If there was an elite level prospect like Jones available, I'd consider it depending on where the Lions wind up drafting but I'd prioritize other positions over receiver. They desperately need to beef up the Front 7 and QB needs to be a strong consideration even if they keep Stafford for another year. I'd prefer to target receiver in one of the other rounds, lots of good receivers are usually available outside of the 1st (Metcalf and Jefferson are two recent examples, there's many more).

i think cephus isnt long for this league.  he's very slow and cant catch.  maybe he gets better at catching next year?  if not, he's probably gone.  the lions roster is so thin at receiver that he's surely on the roster next year no matter what.

jefferson was a first round pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think cephus isnt long for this league.  he's very slow and cant catch.  maybe he gets better at catching next year?  if not, he's probably gone.  the lions roster is so thin at receiver that he's surely on the roster next year no matter what.

jefferson was a first round pick.

Yes Jefferson was a taken in  the 1st but he was the 5th? receiver taken, so many receivers taken last year that I forgot he was taken that high. Point still stands though. Claypool was like the 10th receiver taken and we see where he is now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Buddha said:

i think cephus isnt long for this league.  he's very slow and cant catch.  maybe he gets better at catching next year?  if not, he's probably gone.  the lions roster is so thin at receiver that he's surely on the roster next year no matter what.

jefferson was a first round pick.

I would take Mooney over Cephus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also take Hall. 

I would also build only through the draft and street free agents. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm torn on whether to take a QB this year or not.    Part of me would like to build up the rest of the team a bit since Staff is plenty serviceable for the next couple years if need be.  

On the other hand it would be nice to have that QB of the future already aboard and give him a season or two to get seasoned before you are hopefully ready to compete.   

I guess it depends on who is available when they pick and how they view him compared to potential guys coming out in 2022.  I don't want to take a potential lesser QB just cause they feel they need one for the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'm torn on whether to take a QB this year or not.    Part of me would like to build up the rest of the team a bit since Staff is plenty serviceable for the next couple years if need be.  

On the other hand it would be nice to have that QB of the future already aboard and give him a season or two to get seasoned before you are hopefully ready to compete.   

I guess it depends on who is available when they pick and how they view him compared to potential guys coming out in 2022.  I don't want to take a potential lesser QB just cause they feel they need one for the future.

true.  i can also see drafting a qb this year.  

but last year we were told that the lions had to draft a qb because this year's class is amazing and we'll never get another chance to draft these amazing, sure fire all pro qbs.

and now this year we are told that the lions have to draft a qb because this year's class is amazing and we'll never get another chance to draft these amazing, sure fire all pro qbs.

and i suspect next year we will be told that the lions have to draft a qb because next year's class is amazing and we'll never get another chance to draft these amazing, sure fire all pro qbs.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NFL.com: Daniel Jeremiah's Scouting Report on Trey Lance

Daniel Jeremiah has become the new Mike Mayock of NFL Network and seems to think very highly of Trey Lance.

What I liked: When I evaluate quarterbacks, I try to narrow my focus to these five key areas: poise, accuracy, decision-making, play-making ability and toughness. After studying the aforementioned three games, I can confidently state that Lance is off the charts in all five areas. Let's look at each of them individually:

Poise: This is the most important trait for a quarterback, in my opinion. How do you perform when under pressure or in critical moments? When everything around you speeds up, do you have the ability to slow down and remain calm? Lance never looks rattled. He calmly and smoothly sidesteps pocket pressure while keeping his eyes downfield. He excels on third downs and in the red zone, always making the proper decision.

Accuracy: I say this all the time: Do not get caught up in completion percentage when evaluating accuracy. Lance completed nearly 67 percent of his passes, which is impressive, but the tape showed he was even more accurate than that number indicates. His ball placement is excellent. He really trusts his eyes and throws with anticipation, which allows his receivers better opportunities to run after the catch. He can layer the ball in the middle of the field (over linebackers and under safeties) and he excels on bucket throws (deep balls over the top).

Decision-making: I've never evaluated a draft prospect with this stat line: 28 touchdowns, 0 interceptions. You read that correctly. He had zero interceptions. When I saw that number, I expected to find an overly cautious player on tape. That wasn't the case, though. He is selectively aggressive. When there are big-play opportunities, he lets it rip and will fit the ball in tight quarters. However, he's very content to take his checkdown options if nothing emerges down the field. He makes full-field reads, and he's very quick to get to his third option before delivering the ball to the proper location.

Play-making ability: Here are the two questions I ask myself when evaluating this skill/trait: 1) Can you make something happen when the play breaks down? 2) Can you use your legs to pick up yards when the defense provides you with those opportunities? Lance can do both, and he does it effortlessly. He has outstanding instincts to avoid and create from the pocket and excels on designed quarterback options/runs. He's very athletic and generates big plays because of it.
Toughness: I noticed Lance's toughness mostly when he was used as a runner. He ran over a safety on the way to the end zone in the UC Davis game. He's very strong/sturdy, and he doesn't shy away from contact. I saw the same things from Wentz during his time in Fargo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

NFL.com: Daniel Jeremiah's Scouting Report on Trey Lance

Daniel Jeremiah has become the new Mike Mayock of NFL Network and seems to think very highly of Trey Lance.

What I liked: When I evaluate quarterbacks, I try to narrow my focus to these five key areas: poise, accuracy, decision-making, play-making ability and toughness. After studying the aforementioned three games, I can confidently state that Lance is off the charts in all five areas. Let's look at each of them individually:

Poise: This is the most important trait for a quarterback, in my opinion. How do you perform when under pressure or in critical moments? When everything around you speeds up, do you have the ability to slow down and remain calm? Lance never looks rattled. He calmly and smoothly sidesteps pocket pressure while keeping his eyes downfield. He excels on third downs and in the red zone, always making the proper decision.

Accuracy: I say this all the time: Do not get caught up in completion percentage when evaluating accuracy. Lance completed nearly 67 percent of his passes, which is impressive, but the tape showed he was even more accurate than that number indicates. His ball placement is excellent. He really trusts his eyes and throws with anticipation, which allows his receivers better opportunities to run after the catch. He can layer the ball in the middle of the field (over linebackers and under safeties) and he excels on bucket throws (deep balls over the top).

Decision-making: I've never evaluated a draft prospect with this stat line: 28 touchdowns, 0 interceptions. You read that correctly. He had zero interceptions. When I saw that number, I expected to find an overly cautious player on tape. That wasn't the case, though. He is selectively aggressive. When there are big-play opportunities, he lets it rip and will fit the ball in tight quarters. However, he's very content to take his checkdown options if nothing emerges down the field. He makes full-field reads, and he's very quick to get to his third option before delivering the ball to the proper location.

Play-making ability: Here are the two questions I ask myself when evaluating this skill/trait: 1) Can you make something happen when the play breaks down? 2) Can you use your legs to pick up yards when the defense provides you with those opportunities? Lance can do both, and he does it effortlessly. He has outstanding instincts to avoid and create from the pocket and excels on designed quarterback options/runs. He's very athletic and generates big plays because of it.
Toughness: I noticed Lance's toughness mostly when he was used as a runner. He ran over a safety on the way to the end zone in the UC Davis game. He's very strong/sturdy, and he doesn't shy away from contact. I saw the same things from Wentz during his time in Fargo.

What you always run into in with guys from places NDS is "who has he played against?" One of the  toughest things in scouting for every pro sport is trying to extrapolate how a guy reacts to a game played at a faster level.  All those things he does so well might break down - or they might not. It's like trying to judge if a guy can hit an MLB slider watching him hit 350 against A ball pitchers. You will never really know for sure because he never sees them there. Guys from lower level programs are always kind of a crapshoot until they get their chance to prove it against the top competition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

What you always run into in with guys from places NDS is "who has he played against?" One of the  toughest things in scouting for every pro sport is trying to extrapolate how a guy reacts to a game played at a faster level.  All those things he does so well might break down - or they might not. It's like trying to judge if a guy can hit an MLB slider watching him hit 350 against A ball pitchers. You will never really know for sure because he never sees them there. Guys from lower level programs are always kind of a crapshoot until they get their chance to prove it against the top competition.

Not to derail the thread or anything and I am 100% positive there are a ton of metrics on it, but in my basic (not looking anything up off the top of my head comment of the day) I would guess how well those hitters hit balls out of the zone would be a big factor in your example.  MLB sliders move more so when they move out of the zone how well will those hitters be able to adjust to at least make contact and foul it off avoiding a K?  (not trying to teach anything here just start a dialogue)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Not to derail the thread or anything and I am 100% positive there are a ton of metrics on it, but in my basic (not looking anything up off the top of my head comment of the day) I would guess how well those hitters hit balls out of the zone would be a big factor in your example.  MLB sliders move more so when they move out of the zone how well will those hitters be able to adjust to at least make contact and foul it off avoiding a K?  (not trying to teach anything here just start a dialogue)

I think you can pose the question - do hitters survive against the slider more because they can recognize it  and lay off or because they reach out and hit them successfully? Both happen to more or less degrees. I'd agree reach you can  evaluate to some degree, though on the other hand K zone discipline is also part of the evaluation. If a MiLB player is hitting a lot of balls out of the zone, that is going to cut both ways in his evaluation on the assumption that he'll have more trouble hitting balls OOZ in the majors where they are thrown harder and the break is sharper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I think you can pose the question - do hitters survive against the slider more because they can recognize it  and lay off or because they reach out and hit them successfully? Both happen to more or less degrees. I'd agree reach you can  evaluate to some degree, though on the other hand K zone discipline is also part of the evaluation. If a MiLB player is hitting a lot of balls out of the zone, that is going to cut both ways in his evaluation on the assumption that he'll have more trouble hitting balls OOZ in the majors where they are thrown harder and the break is sharper.

I would guess laying off in the biggs, but how do you gauge that in the Milb?  If Milb player is hitting with a great % OOTZ I would guess his inclination when getting to the biggs is to "try" and hit that OOTZ pitch which would probably result in more K's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

What you always run into in with guys from places NDS is "who has he played against?" One of the  toughest things in scouting for every pro sport is trying to extrapolate how a guy reacts to a game played at a faster level.  All those things he does so well might break down - or they might not. It's like trying to judge if a guy can hit an MLB slider watching him hit 350 against A ball pitchers. You will never really know for sure because he never sees them there. Guys from lower level programs are always kind of a crapshoot until they get their chance to prove it against the top competition.

The first problem the Lions is have is we are never as an organization allowed to ask those types of question. We won't know if the guy can hit a slider or not because we have another guy on the roster that we refuse to move on from to give the other guy a chance. It's like watching the obvious struggles of Miggy over the past several season and refusing to draft a future replacement for him based off of what Miggy was in the past or what we cross our fingers and hope he might be again one day, even though we know he's on the wrong side of 30.

We've become so gun shy about moving on from Stafford that we've bronzed a statue for him already outside of Ford Field even though we've never won a thing of note with our $135,000,000 commodity. If you want to debate that in the past Stafford has not been the problem and there was never a need to move on from him, fine, we can have that debate. If we do, I'm going to keep referencing the fact that he never beats anyone of significance, has yet to win a big game, has no playoffs wins, pads his stats late in games, and has been a statistical train wreck against average, above average, and great defensive units.

We need to first get past the fear that we may indeed fail when moving on from Stafford. We could be the Chicago Bears and end up with a Mitch Trubisky/Nick Foles disaster scenario at QB. We could draft a guy who ends up becoming the next Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Trevor Simieon,  or Josh Rosen. We could end up with an entire lost decade where we are endlessly searching for Stafford's replacement. That happens in the NFL all the time, but it is a risk we simply have to take at this point.

We have to empower our next GM though to be able to go out and make any move they want, including moving on from Stafford and potentially drafting an unknown commodity, like Trey Lance, that could boom or bust. From the people who are smarter than me, NFL insiders, scouts, player personnel, they all seem to think Lance can indeed do the aforementioned things in Daniel Jeramiah's scouting report at a big league level, when the game speeds up. They aren't talking about him as a top QB prospect and a top 10 pick because he's the best of a bad lot and there is no one else out there. They seem to place high value on the talent and traits that Lance has and think of him as a guy who has the tools necessary to be a good NFL starting QB. I'm ready and have been ready to see if the grass is greener on the otherside or not. I could end up with egg on my face like I did suggesting Connor Cook would be a good NFL prospect or we could be drafting a top tier NFL QB in Lance. If we aren't willing to move on it though, we can never ask the question and get the answer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the lions never won anything with calvin johnson as a wr, i'm glad they moved on from that loser.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

What you always run into in with guys from places NDS is "who has he played against?" One of the  toughest things in scouting for every pro sport is trying to extrapolate how a guy reacts to a game played at a faster level.  All those things he does so well might break down - or they might not. It's like trying to judge if a guy can hit an MLB slider watching him hit 350 against A ball pitchers. You will never really know for sure because he never sees them there. Guys from lower level programs are always kind of a crapshoot until they get their chance to prove it against the top competition.

Another big deal with Lance imo (I like him, amazing physical talent) is his lack of experience. He will have to sit for a while imo, he needed to play this year at a minimum. He's the type that needs more seasoning, even with the 0 int's last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The first problem the Lions is have is we are never as an organization allowed to ask those types of question. We won't know if the guy can hit a slider or not because we have another guy on the roster that we refuse to move on from to give the other guy a chance. It's like watching the obvious struggles of Miggy over the past several season and refusing to draft a future replacement for him based off of what Miggy was in the past or what we cross our fingers and hope he might be again one day, even though we know he's on the wrong side of 30.

We've become so gun shy about moving on from Stafford that we've bronzed a statue for him already outside of Ford Field even though we've never won a thing of note with our $135,000,000 commodity. If you want to debate that in the past Stafford has not been the problem and there was never a need to move on from him, fine, we can have that debate. If we do, I'm going to keep referencing the fact that he never beats anyone of significance, has yet to win a big game, has no playoffs wins, pads his stats late in games, and has been a statistical train wreck against average, above average, and great defensive units.

We need to first get past the fear that we may indeed fail when moving on from Stafford. We could be the Chicago Bears and end up with a Mitch Trubisky/Nick Foles disaster scenario at QB. We could draft a guy who ends up becoming the next Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Trevor Simieon,  or Josh Rosen. We could end up with an entire lost decade where we are endlessly searching for Stafford's replacement. That happens in the NFL all the time, but it is a risk we simply have to take at this point.

We have to empower our next GM though to be able to go out and make any move they want, including moving on from Stafford and potentially drafting an unknown commodity, like Trey Lance, that could boom or bust. From the people who are smarter than me, NFL insiders, scouts, player personnel, they all seem to think Lance can indeed do the aforementioned things in Daniel Jeramiah's scouting report at a big league level, when the game speeds up. They aren't talking about him as a top QB prospect and a top 10 pick because he's the best of a bad lot and there is no one else out there. They seem to place high value on the talent and traits that Lance has and think of him as a guy who has the tools necessary to be a good NFL starting QB. I'm ready and have been ready to see if the grass is greener on the otherside or not. I could end up with egg on my face like I did suggesting Connor Cook would be a good NFL prospect or we could be drafting a top tier NFL QB in Lance. If we aren't willing to move on it though, we can never ask the question and get the answer.

 

Also what is your point regarding Miggy? They drafted Torkelson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Also what is your point regarding Miggy? They drafted Torkelson.

The point is that the Lions, if this franchise keeps the same attitude it has, won't allow the next regime to move on from Stafford until he as a player decides to move on. The organization needs to give the next GM the blessing to do whatever they want, including moving on from Stafford. If the Tigers had the same attitude towards Miggy as the Lions do towards Stafford, Torkelson would never have been drafted or allowed to be selected if management had an edict on keeping Miggy as this organization seemingly does on Stafford.

Look at Green Bay last year, they still have Aaron Rodgers playing at a high level, and still went out and took Jordan Love at QB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Also what is your point regarding Miggy? They drafted Torkelson.

The Tigers would gladly give away Cabrera if they could. Cabrera is also clearly in decline whereas Stafford just last year was playing the best football of his career. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Another big deal with Lance imo (I like him, amazing physical talent) is his lack of experience. He will have to sit for a while imo, he needed to play this year at a minimum. He's the type that needs more seasoning, even with the 0 int's last year.

This team is going to be a 3 year rebuild given just how bad the roster is and how bad Patricia's scheme was that they constructed the roster for. I'm absolutely fine with hanging onto Stafford for one more season and letting Lance sit on the bench because we're rebuilding anyways. We need a QB for the future and drafting Lance (or Fields or Lawrence if somehow NYJ or JAX is dumb enough to pass on one of those two) gives us that guy. That said, if we can flip Stafford for a 1st round pick, I am actively shopping him around in hopes of doing so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Tater has a new QB obsession. Hope he's better than Connor Cook or Dewayne Haskins. 

When are we ever allowed to move on from Stafford? He'll be in a wheel chair, on a catheter at 90 and we'll have people talking about Charlie Batch and Scott Mitchell and how we might not do better than Stafford.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

When are we ever allowed to move on from Stafford? He'll be in a wheel chair, on a catheter at 90 and we'll have people talking about Charlie Batch and Scott Mitchell and how we might not do better than Stafford.

This reminds me of Washington. They moved on from Kirk Cousins and drafted Haskins who is a complete bust. Meanwhile, you put Cousins on a team with a defense and a run game and he ends up winning a playoff game when everyone complained he couldn't. Putting a new QB into a dysfunctional team with no defense or run game isn't going to change the outcome. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

This team is going to be a 3 year rebuild given just how bad the roster is and how bad Patricia's scheme was that they constructed the roster for. I'm absolutely fine with hanging onto Stafford for one more season and letting Lance sit on the bench because we're rebuilding anyways. We need a QB for the future and drafting Lance (or Fields or Lawrence if somehow NYJ or JAX is dumb enough to pass on one of those two) gives us that guy. That said, if we can flip Stafford for a 1st round pick, I am actively shopping him around in hopes of doing so.

Stafford is so bad and can't win a playoff game and makes too much money and is getting older but we're going to flip him for a 1st round pick. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Michigan Sports Betting Offer

Michigan is launching online sports betting and casino apps in January 2021. These top Michigan sportsbooks have pre-launch bonus offers. No deposit is required. Terms and conditions apply.

BetRivers Michigan - If you sign up at BetRivers Michigan now, you will receive $50 in free bets to use one their online sportsbook & casino

Click Here to claim $50 at BetRivers Michigan For Signing Up Now

FanDuel Michigan - If you register now before FanDuel launches in January, you will receive $100 to use at their sportsbook app & online casino.

Click Here to claim $100 at FanDuel Michigan For Registering Now

BetMGM Michigan - If you sign up early at BetMGM Michigan before launch, you will receive $200 in free bets to use at their online casino & sportsbook

Click Here to claim $200 at BetRivers Michigan For Signing Up Early

   


×
×
  • Create New...