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Mr.TaterSalad

Matt Patricia/Bob Quinn fired - Holmes/Cambell Hired as GM/Coach

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28 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Joe Douglas is in his first year as Jets GM, I doubt he gets canned.

I misunderstood and was thinking new coach. Regardless, the Jets should be high on the list for a new coach because of Lawrence.

The Lions are kind of in no mans' land. Not much of a talent base to work from, not bad enough to get one of the elite QBs in the draft, a good but aging QB with 2 years left on his deal, hamstrung by a lot of awful contracts. An awful situation for a new GM and coach to walk into, arguably the least attractive job in the league.

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15 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

she is the principle manager. 

She is principal owner and chairman per the NFL and the Detroit Lions. Exact same set up that the Rooneys have and Wolf's have up in Minnesota. Me thinks you're trying to make something out of nothing. 

(and not for nothing: to be the chairman, NFL owners require you to be either the majority holder or for a trust to own 65 percent of the team and you to own at least 25 percent. She owns more than her siblings)

lions.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

She is principal owner and chairman per the NFL and the Detroit Lions. Except same set up that the Rooneys have and Wolf's have up in Minnesota. Me thinks you're trying to make something out of nothing. 

lions.jpg

You can put anything you want on a letterhead. Read what she said when she 'took over'. All major decisions would still be approved by the family jointly. Do you think for one minute that her 3 sibs just walked away from over a $billion interest each so Martha could 'gift' the team to  SHF? Be serious. The tax bill alone would have made that impossible - unless the team was put into trust. Which is what Ilitch did. None of the children inherited it, but Chris was made trustee.

 

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If I was coordinating this search, I'd begin with candidates who have spent considerable time working under stable GMs in successful franchises, like Pittsburgh, New Orleans, Baltimore, and Kansas City. I want my GM first, and I want them to be involved with (but not have the only say in) the head coaching search.

The only exceptions I can think of would be if the team is able to interview Urban Meyer or Nick Saban. Both have managed programs of a stature that I would consider allowing them to be the senior partner in a GM/head coach relationship.

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Trubisky is so bad.  All you need to know about the defense of the lions under Patricia is that Trubisky looked like Mahomes.  More than twice. 

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

read what she said when she 'took over'. All major decisions would still be approved by the family jointly. Do you think for one minute that her 3 sibs just walked away from over a $billion interest each so Martha could 'gift' the team to  SHF? Be serious. The tax bill alone would have made that impossible - unless the team was put into trust.

So you think the NFL is allowing the Lions to violate the bylaws?

Your argument goes against all NFL rules. As I said you're trying to make something out of nothing. The siblings had little to do in the day to day. Their ownership didn't change and they still get paid. Shelia basically took over the WCF/Martha shares. 

And yes the team was put in a trust. That is how Shelia is the owner. She probably owns 30 percent the other sibilngs like 15-20 and then some minority owners....just like nearly every other NFL team. 

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7 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

So you think the NFL is allowing the Lions to violate the bylaws?

Your argument goes against all NFL rules. As I said you're trying to make something out of nothing. The siblings had little to do in the day to day. Their ownership didn't change and they still get paid. Shelia basically took over the WCF/Martha shares. 

And yes the team was put in a trust. That is how Shelia is the owner. She probably owns 30 percent the other sibilngs like 15-20 and then some minority owners....just like nearly every other NFL team. 

If the team is in trust, none of them own it. That is what a trust is. The NFL designates an 'owner' as the person with operational responsibility - and that could certainly be a trustee, again as per Chris Ilitch. In many professional sports team cases that isn't even the largest holder in teams owned by partnerships. But a partnership and a trust are two different things.

The team *ownership* was really transferred to the 4 children, then Martha is not a majority controlling owner and could be displaced by her sibs. That is exactly the kind of thing an exec would want to understand before walking in.

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

If the team is in trust, none of them own it. That is what a trust is. The NFL designates an 'owner' as the person with operational responsibility - and that could certainly be a trustee, again as per Chris Ilitch. In many professional sports team cases that isn't even the largest holder in teams owned by partnerships. But a partnership and a trust are two different things.

You. Are. Not. Listening.

You are trying to make something out of nothing. Not one person has suggested what you are. Not one person has raised concern about the lions ownership structure today or moving forward. You are not paying attention to the bylaws of the NFL. You just keep going on an on that there is some sibling in fighting on the horizon when there is nothing to support to that point. And you have it made up in your head what a trust is and what it is not. 

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6 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

If I was coordinating this search, I'd begin with candidates who have spent considerable time working under stable GMs in successful franchises, like Pittsburgh, New Orleans, Baltimore, and Kansas City. I want my GM first, and I want them to be involved with (but not have the only say in) the head coaching search.

The only exceptions I can think of would be if the team is able to interview Urban Meyer or Nick Saban. Both have managed programs of a stature that I would consider allowing them to be the senior partner in a GM/head coach relationship.

Looking at Pittsburgh's front office and most of them are Rooney's so they're out. The Saints assistant GM is Jeff Ireland who was GM of the Dolphins and asked if Dez Bryant's mom was a prostitute. They're out. I would put Seattle in the mix too. Trent Kirchner has interviewed for a lot of GM jobs. He hasn't been hired so that makes me wonder why no one has hired him yet. 

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7 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

You. Are. Not. Listening.

 

I have some familiarity with both inheritance and trusts in MI and none of what I see in the Lion's case indicates to me that real financial ownership has ever left Martha. But we will know soon enough either way.

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1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

The succession of ownership is probably the least of my concerns with the Lions. 

It isn't to me either, but it is something a GM candidate would think about it looking at competing offers - which is the only point.

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1 minute ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It isn't to me either, but it is something a GM candidate would think about it looking at competing offers - which is the only point.

I'm guessing if it's a concern to the GM candidate they will ask Sheila in the interview. 

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Just now, Motown Bombers said:

I'm guessing if it's a concern to the GM candidate they will ask Sheila in the interview. 

No doubt.

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7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Looking at Pittsburgh's front office and most of them are Rooney's so they're out. The Saints assistant GM is Jeff Ireland who was GM of the Dolphins and asked if Dez Bryant's mom was a prostitute. They're out. I would put Seattle in the mix too. Trent Kirchner has interviewed for a lot of GM jobs. He hasn't been hired so that makes me wonder why no one has hired him yet. 

I found it interesting that there was a Rooney kid serving as Player Personnel Coordinator for Pittsburgh. That's a good way to get knowledge of the family business. But Omar Khan, Pittsburgh VP of Football and Business Administration, is not related.

Ed Dodds is now in Indy, but was Schneider's right hand in Seattle for many years. It seems that he'll be the top guy on many boards.

Jeff Ireland is not the only candidate in New Orleans. He is one of three VPs there (and one of two assistant GMs). 

 

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seriously KL2 - not to just keep arguing but I'll tell you why I find the story that SHF was just able to 'take over' the Lions not fully credible. Lets go through the options the family had. The team could have gone to trust. That would have disinherited the siblings. Now it's true Mike Ilitch did do that to Atanas and the rest, but Ilitch had other holdings they will inherit in their part. I just find it hard to believe that the other Ford sibs just rolled over for Martha to disinherit them in like manner when the Lions are the major part of WCFs legacy to them. Maybe they did. It seems to go strongly against human nature. So lets say she actually made the gift to the children pre-death. They would have all owed taxes, and they probably would have had to pay them by selling Ford 'B' shares and that would have been really big news around town because it would affect the family's ability to control FoMoCo. Probably would have required SEC filings as well. Haven't heard anything in that direction and that is the kind of thing Crane's would be working hard to scoop. So that is where my reservations lie. The league designation doesn't mean anything other than that SHF in control right now, and that is not in question.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

seriously KL2 - not to just keep arguing but I'll tell you why I find the story that SHF was just able to 'take over' the Lions not fully credible. Lets go through the options the family had. The team could have gone to trust. That would have disinherited the siblings. Now it's true Mike Ilitch did do that to Atanas and the rest, but Ilitch had other holdings they will inherit in their part. I just find it hard to believe that the other Ford sibs just rolled over for Martha to disinherit them in like manner when the Lions are the major part of WCFs legacy to them. Maybe they did. It seems to go strongly against human nature. So lets say she actually made the gift to the children. They would have all owed taxes, and they probably would have had to pay them by selling Ford 'A' shares and that would have been really big news around town because it would affect the family's ability to control FoMoCo. Probably would have required SEC filings as well. Haven't heard anything in that direction and that is the kind of thing Crane's would be working hard to scoop. So that is where my reservations lie. The league designation doesn't mean anything other than that SHF in control right now, and that is not in question.

Are you an estate attorney?

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20 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Are you an estate attorney?

No but I have been through a couple. If you have a counter point with a reasonable scenario of how they executed a deal, I'm listening. But  I'm just saying I'm skeptical based on what has been publicly reported so far. There are certain realities like the  taxes for instance. 

The other possibility is a trust with say the grandchildren as the final beneficiaries. Something like that could be a way around the taxes for the family now. But that still means that all the WCF's children never see his money themselves. Possible also - but I still think we would have heard more details about something like that. There would be a lot of legal filings etc. I know the press ain't what is used to be, but still....

In any case, my only point again, is, if I were coming into the situation I would want some  answers about the family dynamics I was walking into  - that's all.

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1 hour ago, NYLion said:

I misunderstood and was thinking new coach. Regardless, the Jets should be high on the list for a new coach because of Lawrence.

The Lions are kind of in no mans' land. Not much of a talent base to work from, not bad enough to get one of the elite QBs in the draft, a good but aging QB with 2 years left on his deal, hamstrung by a lot of awful contracts. An awful situation for a new GM and coach to walk into, arguably the least attractive job in the league.

There are plenty of QB's in this draft. I think Trask will be elite. Different strokes for different folks.

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1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

I found it interesting that there was a Rooney kid serving as Player Personnel Coordinator for Pittsburgh. That's a good way to get knowledge of the family business. But Omar Khan, Pittsburgh VP of Football and Business Administration, is not related.

Ed Dodds is now in Indy, but was Schneider's right hand in Seattle for many years. It seems that he'll be the top guy on many boards.

Jeff Ireland is not the only candidate in New Orleans. He is one of three VPs there (and one of two assistant GMs). 

 

ryan pace was once a golden boy in new orleans too.

i'm looking forward to the next shiny new toy as much as anyone, but shiny and new doesnt always turn out.  and, in the lions' case, it NEVER works out.  lol.

lots of media talk about chris spielman, cant say id like that.  dont think id like that one at all.

like a lot of people here are saying, i'd love to pluck someone from the pittsburgh, seattle, baltimore tree.  i suspect we'll be hearing a lot about anyone associated with kansas city.

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4 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Yes they could. Just need other owner's permission

And stop with Rick Smith. He's not some golden goose you present him to be. He's spotty at best. Sure they could interview him, but he is the definition of meh

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018 Policies/7-2018 Anti-Tampering Policy-Clean Version.pdf

Quote

4. NON-PLAYERS. (a) Playing Season Restriction. No club, nor any person employed by or otherwise affiliated with a club, is permitted to tamper with a non-player employee of another club. (1) Football Employees. Unless otherwise permitted by this Policy, no club may request permission to discuss employment with a non-player football operations employee of another club (whether or not that employee is under contract) during the employer club’s playing season, defined as the period from the opening of the club’s preseason training camp through the club’s final game of the season, including postseason if applicable. “Football Operations” is defined as including all members of a club’s coaching, scouting, equipment, training, video, grounds crew, football travel/logistics, public relations, player engagement, football analytics and technology staffs, and medical, sports science, and athletic training departments, as well as the positions of general manager, contract negotiator, and their staffs. (For procedures applicable to coaches, see sections 4(h) Head Coaches and 4(i) Assistant Coaches. For procedures applicable to non-coach employees in football operations, see sections 4(j) High-Level Club Employees (Non-Player, Non-Coach), and 4(k) Other Club Employees (Non-Player, Non-Coach).)

 

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9 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

seriously KL2 - not to just keep arguing but I'll tell you why I find the story that SHF was just able to 'take over' the Lions not fully credible. Lets go through the options the family had. The team could have gone to trust. That would have disinherited the siblings. Now it's true Mike Ilitch did do that to Atanas and the rest, but Ilitch had other holdings they will inherit in their part. I just find it hard to believe that the other Ford sibs just rolled over for Martha to disinherit them in like manner when the Lions are the major part of WCFs legacy to them. Maybe they did. It seems to go strongly against human nature. So lets say she actually made the gift to the children pre-death. They would have all owed taxes, and they probably would have had to pay them by selling Ford 'B' shares and that would have been really big news around town because it would affect the family's ability to control FoMoCo. Probably would have required SEC filings as well. Haven't heard anything in that direction and that is the kind of thing Crane's would be working hard to scoop. So that is where my reservations lie. The league designation doesn't mean anything other than that SHF in control right now, and that is not in question.

Interesting the NFL just amended their ownership rules last week.   There have been big ongoing transfer of power issues in Denver and Nashville.  The league wants to clear this up.  
 

 

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SI: Top NFL GM Candidates

Sports Illustrated put together a comprehensive list of GM candidates. Ed Dodds is still probably my favorite given the Colts recent success at drafting and the Lions lack thereof.  Dodds was also in the front office of Seattle when they built their Super Bowl teams through the 2010's. Plus, with Dodds, if he likes Matt Eberflus the DC in Indy for his Head Coach, you can trust that Eberflus won't half the bum Patricia was. In Patricia's case, it was clear that daddy Bill was running things in New England. I don't think that is the case in Indy with Eberflus as DC, he's calling his own shots I would have to guess given hat Frank Reich is an offensive coach.

 

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If Robert Saleh is the guy we want there is a chance he could come with Adam Peters as the new GM as well. It could be a one/two hire where Peters, who is currently the Director of Player Personnel in San Francisco, comes in as the new GM and Saleh as the Head Coach.

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