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Mr.TaterSalad

Matt Patricia/Bob Quinn fired - Holmes/Cambell Hired as GM/Coach

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I'd like to see the Lions reach out to Lincoln Riley, Ryan Day, Brian Daboll, Greg Roman (Ravens OC) and Wink Martindale (Ravens DC). We all talk about what Daboll has done with Josh Allen, but I think what Greg Roman did with both Colin Kapernick in SanFran and now Lamar Jackson in Baltimore is equally impressive. Maybe Roman doesn't have the leadership qualities people are looking for in a coach, but his schemes have been successful now with mobile QB's across two different coaches systems and with two different players. 

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I would keep an open mind on Campbell. He might be more in the mold of a Mike Vrabel in the former player turned coach. 

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2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I'd like to see the Lions reach out to Lincoln Riley, Ryan Day, Brian Daboll, Greg Roman (Ravens OC) and Wink Martindale (Ravens DC).

I'm okay with each of those except Day. He inherited everything he has, I don't think he's done nearly enough to be considered for an NFL job.

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1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I'm okay with each of those except Day. He inherited everything he has, I don't think he's done nearly enough to be considered for an NFL job.

I mean, you could make the same claim that Riley inherited everything from Bob Stoops. Day's going into year 3 with no signs of slowing down. I'd make the call if I'm the Lions and at least see how he interviews. I was disappointed we weren't even in the discussion or Urban Meyer. Meyer has the prior experience factor that the team may be looking for in a coach, granted not at the pro level.

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When you take out recruiting, which is not a factor in the NFL, what exactly has Urban Meyer done that would make him a better coach in the NFL? 

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4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

When you take out recruiting, which is not a factor in the NFL, what exactly has Urban Meyer done that would make him a better coach in the NFL? 

Win big games like National Championships, dominate his chief rival and go 12-0 at a place like Utah and 9-3 at Bowling Green. Meyer is a good football coach and I don't think that can be denied. He succeeds everywhere he goes. 8-5 was his worst record ever. He also seems good at developing talent and getting the most out of his players. People hat on Meyer because he seems like a scumbag personally, but if he wins games and were hoisting a Lombardi trophy over his head as Lions Head Coach, who would be thinking about his personality in that moment? No one!

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10 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Instead, what it looks like is the team hired Spielman to oversee football operations for ownership. He is the guy responsible to get the GM and HC to stay on the same page. And Spielman has been, at the very least, heavily involved in the interview process; it would be speculative (but not implausible, and probably more likely than not) to say that he’s been the leading voice. 

A lot of people keep talking as if the team needed to hire a GM so they can hire a HC, but the facts on the ground demonstrate that ownership/ Spielman didn’t believe this at all. From how it appears now, they are going to give Holmes the chance to rubber stamp Smith tomorrow, or to start work on day 1 and tell the Owner, President, Special Assistant to the President that they are wrong. 

So if I'm understanding correctly, you believe that the Hierarchy in the Lions goes something like this:

Owner -> President -> Spielman -> GM -> Coach

As opposed to the more traditional:

Owner -> President -> GM -> Coach

Obviously both examples were are HEAVILY over simplified and there's far more nuance and team work rather than straight lines.  But boiled down is that kinda sorta your idea of how things are set?

For what it's worth, I listened to an interview with a beat writer for the Rams who said something along these same lines... that most people assume the GM picks the coach, but that may not be happening here and now, and that may be because the GM is a rookie GM. (Of course, given that Spielman is a rookie [insert job title and hierarchy slot here] I don't necessarily feel that he's automatically any better at picking a coach.)

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1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Win big games like National Championships, dominate his chief rival and go 12-0 at a place like Utah and 9-3 at Bowling Green. Meyer is a good football coach and I don't think that can be denied. He succeeds everywhere he goes. 8-5 was his worst record ever.

Nick Saban is arguably a better coach and flopped in the NFL. I'm not buying a guy who did well at Bowling Green. How much of that success is because Urban Meyer can recruit as well as any coach? 

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Just now, Motown Bombers said:

Nick Saban is arguably a better coach and flopped in the NFL. I'm not buying a guy who did well at Bowling Green. How much of that success is because Urban Meyer can recruit as well as any coach? 

Who knows. He could be Nick Saban or he could be Jimmy Johnson. Just because Saban flopped doesn't mean Meyer will. It's the same as me criticizing Hockenson because Ebron flopped.

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3 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

 

Frankly the staff you bring along is just as if not more important than the actual coaching hire. Patricia had a very underwhelming staff. 

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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Nick Saban is arguably a better coach and flopped in the NFL. I'm not buying a guy who did well at Bowling Green. How much of that success is because Urban Meyer can recruit as well as any coach? 

Yeah - I think the skill set requirements overlap in some places but not  others.  The question is which parts are most important? So here would be the question: - Taking previously experienced NFL head coaches out of the mix, where would you look that gives you the highest probability of success? Probably an NFL OC or DC. But that skill set doesn't overlap the HC's job exactly either. So what might be interesting would be to go through all of NFL history and evaluate which of NCAA head coaches vs NFL top level coordinators had a higher percentage of NFL head coaching success. I'd guess it would be the coordinators but I have zero data to back that up.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Yeah - I think the skill set requirements overlap in some places but not  others.  The question is which parts are most important? So here would be the question: - Taking previously experienced NFL head coaches out of the mix, where would you look that gives you the highest probability of success? Probably an NFL OC or DC. But that skill set doesn't overlap the HC's job exactly either. So what might be interesting would be to go through all of NFL history and evaluate which of NCAA head coaches vs NFL top level coordinators had a higher percentage of NFL head coaching success. I'd guess it would be the coordinators but I have zero data to back that up.

I would also look at how many of Meyer's QBs have been successful NFL QBs. Only one I can think of is Alex Smith and he has been more solid than great. You can win with a Tim Tebow in college but not the NFL. 

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17 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I mean, you could make the same claim that Riley inherited everything from Bob Stoops. Day's going into year 3 with no signs of slowing down. I'd make the call if I'm the Lions and at least see how he interviews. I was disappointed we weren't even in the discussion or Urban Meyer. Meyer has the prior experience factor that the team may be looking for in a coach, granted not at the pro level.

Admittedly, I thought Riley took over for Stoops longer ago than he did (looked it up since seeing your post). But I also think that Oklahoma has taken a bit of a step forward with Riley they weren't making with Stoops (still not into the Ohio State/Alabama tier though). College to NFL is a weird and difficult transition and it's next to impossible to know what it will look like. Will they succeed like Harbaugh or flop like Saban? At the least though I would want to see some continued success with a variety of recruiting classes. Day just needed to continue to do exactly what Meyer was doing and knew he would succeed.

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Yeah - I think the skill set requirements overlap in some places but not  others.  The question is which parts are most important? So here would be the question: - Taking previously experienced NFL head coaches out of the mix, where would you look that gives you the highest probability of success? Probably an NFL OC or DC. But that skill set doesn't overlap the HC's job exactly either. So what might be interesting would be to go through all of NFL history and evaluate which of NCAA head coaches vs NFL top level coordinators had a higher percentage of NFL head coaching success. I'd guess it would be the coordinators but I have zero data to back that up.

NBC Sports has an overview of the college coaches who made the jump, but no comparison to the coordinators.

https://www.nbcsports.com/making-jump-how-did-college-coaches-fare-after-going-nfl#slide-17

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1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Admittedly, I thought Riley took over for Stoops longer ago than he did (looked it up since seeing your post). But I also think that Oklahoma has taken a bit of a step forward with Riley they weren't making with Stoops (still not into the Ohio State/Alabama tier though). College to NFL is a weird and difficult transition and it's next to impossible to know what it will look like. Will they succeed like Harbaugh or flop like Saban? At the least though I would want to see some continued success with a variety of recruiting classes. Day just needed to continue to do exactly what Meyer was doing and knew he would succeed.

One of the difference with Harbaugh is he is an NFL guy. He played QB in the NFL for a while and was a QB coach for the Raiders before going to Stanford. I would be curious to see how many college coaches were successful who spent their entire careers in the college ranks vs coaches who were NFL coaches who went to college and returned to the NFL like a Pete Carroll? 

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Looks like the Lions are the bridesmaid again. The popular or experienced candidates aren't always the most successful ones but it seems like the Lions are getting the scraps again. Bowles or Lewis seem likely now.

I guess Holmes/Lewis wouldn't be all that bad. Disappointing considering all the other names out there but it is what it is.

At this point, I might actually be leaning towards Bevell considering the available options.

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I have zero idea why they chose to interview one guy and not another. But for the life of me, I cannot figure out why neither Brian Daboll or Greg Roman have gotten interviews. They are both successful OC's with multiple years of experience at the job, across multiple teams. They each run two offenses that rank in the top 10 in scoring, both have a proven ability to develop and turn around QBs Allen for Daboll and Jackson and Kapernick for Roman. Why the Lions interviewed neither is perplexing to me. In the case of Daboll, he's gotten interviews with multiple organizations this year but not ours.

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They're probably going to expand their list now that they have a GM locked in. I am intrigued by Staley if he can bring in a good staff. I would rather have a great staff than a good coach with a poor staff. 

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47 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Win big games like National Championships, dominate his chief rival and go 12-0 at a place like Utah and 9-3 at Bowling Green. Meyer is a good football coach and I don't think that can be denied. He succeeds everywhere he goes. 8-5 was his worst record ever. He also seems good at developing talent and getting the most out of his players. People hat on Meyer because he seems like a scumbag personally, but if he wins games and were hoisting a Lombardi trophy over his head as Lions Head Coach, who would be thinking about his personality in that moment? No one!

urban has won multiple places, oftentimes - like utah and bowling green - with lesser recruits.  urban can coach.  he cheats his *** off, but that's not a big deal in the nfl.  they expect you to win.

will he be a success in the nfl?  dunno.  but he can coach his *** off.  we'll see if that translates to grown men.

but ryan day?  what's he done besides inherit urban's team and ohio state's inherent recruiting advantages?  nothing.  and he just got WORKED by alabama, the only real competition ohio state has (besides clemson).

ryan day.  come on.  

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

urban has won multiple places, oftentimes - like utah and bowling green - with lesser recruits.  urban can coach.  he cheats his *** off, but that's not a big deal in the nfl.  they expect you to win.

will he be a success in the nfl?  dunno.  but he can coach his *** off.  we'll see if that translates to grown men.

but ryan day?  what's he done besides inherit urban's team and ohio state's inherent recruiting advantages?  nothing.  and he just got WORKED by alabama, the only real competition ohio state has (besides clemson).

ryan day.  come on.  

I don't follow college football that closely, but given he had lesser recruits at Utah and Bowling Green, was he not playing lesser competition at those schools? Bowling Green and Utah does not play an SEC schedule like Florida. Of course when he is at Florida, a bigger football program than Bowling Green or Utah, he better have better recruits. 

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1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

I don't follow college football that closely, but given he had lesser recruits at Utah and Bowling Green, was he not playing lesser competition at those schools? Bowling Green and Utah does not play an SEC schedule like Florida. Of course when he is at Florida, a bigger football program than Bowling Green or Utah, he better have better recruits. 

the point with urban is that he has won wherever he's been with whatever he has had.  he's a really good football coach.

he is a lot older now and scandal seems to follow him everywhere (because he's a slimeball cheater), but those things dont matter in the nfl.  

we'll see who he can get to be his assistants, that will be the key.

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With Brad Holmes being a rookie GM I'd like to see the Lions bring in an experienced GM like a Rick Smith or Thomas Dimitroff to work as a special assistant to the GM, Assistant GM, whatever. I think bringing in an experienced hand who has worked the free agent market and has done contract negations before would be a nice assist to help Holmes out.

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1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

With Brad Holmes being a rookie GM I'd like to see the Lions bring in an experienced GM like a Rick Smith or Thomas Dimitroff to work as a special assistant to the GM, Assistant GM, whatever. I think bringing in an experienced hand who has worked the free agent market and has done contract negations before would be a nice assist to help Holmes out.

Louis Riddick would also be good for this role. Holmes expertise is on the college/drafting side of things. Riddick has a lot of experience in pro scouting and pro personnel. Would be a great compliment to Holmes. If you bring in someone like Dimitroff who has assembled a Super Bowl caliber roster and pair him with a rookie GM, I can see conflict and a power struggle.

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