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Mr.TaterSalad

Matt Patricia/Bob Quinn fired - Holmes/Cambell Hired as GM/Coach

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If they would've won they would've ended up picking 9th instead of 6th.  While that is a drop its not that big of one to risk the possible backlash or perhaps even punishment of blatantly tanking on prime time tv. Imo 

I could understand if you had your eye one of the top 3 QBs and you went from 3rd to 6th, in that case it may be worth the ridicule to insure you get your franchise qb but 6 to 9 just isn't that big of deal imo.

 

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texans hiring pats guy to be gm.

let us tell you how that will end...

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22 hours ago, Buddha said:

its impossible to punish them, i just wish there was someway to do it.

Should the Tigers have been punished when Sparky Anderson sat regulars and played inferior bench guys "so they wouldn't get stale," something that he did more than any other manager?  (Bill James listed that as one of Sparky's numerous examples of bad managing, for which James asserted that Sparky managed the Tigers out of several championships.)

And if the Eagles are to be punished, why not NFL teams that "rest" their starters in games that are "meaningless" to them at the end of the season?  The Steelers sat Rothlisberger and played their backup quarterback and  their third-string guy for the entire game on Sunday, and narrowly lost to the Browns, who clinched a playoff spot.  And I don't hear anyone vilifying them for that.   

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10 hours ago, Buddha said:

texans hiring pats guy to be gm.

let us tell you how that will end...

Watch Josh McDaniels become the new HC.

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4 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

Should the Tigers have been punished when Sparky Anderson sat regulars and played inferior bench guys "so they wouldn't get stale," something that he did more than any other manager?  (Bill James listed that as one of Sparky's numerous examples of bad managing, for which James asserted that Sparky managed the Tigers out of several championships.)

And if the Eagles are to be punished, why not NFL teams that "rest" their starters in games that are "meaningless" to them at the end of the season?  The Steelers sat Rothlisberger and played their backup quarterback and  their third-string guy for the entire game on Sunday, and narrowly lost to the Browns, who clinched a playoff spot.  And I don't hear anyone vilifying them for that.   

This is not the same as resting a starter for a game. If he had started Sudfeld from the beginning of the game, there wouldn't have been nearly as much backlash. He put in a QB who has no future on the team for a QB who does in the 4th quarter of a 3 point game, I can't ever recall something like that happen.

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8 minutes ago, NYLion said:

This is not the same as resting a starter for a game. If he had started Sudfeld from the beginning of the game, there wouldn't have been nearly as much backlash. He put in a QB who has no future on the team for a QB who does in the 4th quarter of a 3 point game, I can't ever recall something like that happen.

exactly.  

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Pride of Detroit: Finalized List of Coach and GM Candidates Per Rod Wood

Lions head coach candidates:
Former Bengals HC Marvin Lewis
Chiefs OC Eric Bieniemy
Lions interim HC Darrell Bevell
49ers DC Robert Saleh
Titans OC Arthur Smith
Saints assistant HC Dan Campbell

Lions GM candidates:
Lions VP of player personnel Kyle O’Brien
Lions director of player personnel Lance Newmark
Lions director of pro scouting Rob Lohman
Former Eagles director of pro personnel Louis Riddick
Former Texans GM Rick Smith
Former Falcons assistant GM Scott Pioli
Former Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff
Saints VP/assistant GM of pro personnel Terry Fontenot
Saints VP/assistant GM of college personnel Jeff Ireland
Rams director of college scouting Brad Holmes
Vikings assistant GM George Paton
Seahawks GM/executive VP John Schneider

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I'm not going to rail on it by any means, but there are a few names missing from the GM and HC candidates that I would have liked to have seen the Lions interview. On the coaching side Urban Meyer, Lincoln Riley and Bills OC Brian Daboll. On the GM side I wanted to see Ed Dodds from the Colts get an interview as well. On the whole though, these two lists are way more comprehensive and thorough than what took place then they hired Quinn and Patricia, that is a really nice start to see taking place.

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Dodds is definitely a glaring omission but I don't know if he has interviewed with anybody. Maybe he doesn't want to leave Indy?

Based on everything we're hearing and just reading the tea leaves, I'm thinking it will be either Dimitroff or Smith and Saleh with an outside shot of Bevell getting the HC job (just a feeling that they really like him).

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I'm not going to rail on it by any means, but there are a few names missing from the GM and HC candidates that I would have liked to have seen the Lions interview. On the coaching side Urban Meyer, Lincoln Riley and Bills OC Brian Daboll. On the GM side I wanted to see Ed Dodds from the Colts get an interview as well. On the whole though, these two lists are way more comprehensive and thorough than what took place then they hired Quinn and Patricia, that is a really nice start to see taking place.

It's notable that this "finalized" list comes from PoD, not the Lions. Most confirmed interviews have come from leaks, not from the Lions. It's possible more interviews have been done with guys like Meyer and Harbaugh, or even people on nobody's radar, and they were just kept under seal really well.

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I'm not going to rail on it by any means, but there are a few names missing from the GM and HC candidates that I would have liked to have seen the Lions interview. On the coaching side Urban Meyer, Lincoln Riley and Bills OC Brian Daboll. On the GM side I wanted to see Ed Dodds from the Colts get an interview as well. On the whole though, these two lists are way more comprehensive and thorough than what took place then they hired Quinn and Patricia, that is a really nice start to see taking place.

Panthers interviewing Ed Dodds for G.M. job Wednesday

EDIT: Meant to quote NYLion but got distracted by a conversation and quoted the wrong post.

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2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

interesting analysis.  when you compare draft capital to draft results, quinn comes in at average.  just a little below average.  mayhew, other than 2013, was awful (granted the list doesnt go back far enough to get to stafford and suh).

from the article:

What this all tells me is that drafting well is a lot of luck, mixed with some skill and an extra layer of a random "jackpot" on top (the one or two later-round picks each draft that become unexpected Hall of Famers). This would explain the data we see (including the outliers) pretty well. The Seahawks are probably pretty good at drafting, but also had some crazy luck in hitting three jackpots in a row (Wilson, Wagner, and Richard Sherman). What this should tell NFL teams is that you need to roll the dice as many times as you can (trading down for additional value whenever possible), get the best GM you can possibly find, and get the top coaches in the league to develop the talent you draft -- which is what we already see consistently good teams generally do.

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if there were another analysis for coaching hires and free agent acquisitions, i imagine quinn would come in much lower than average.  but as far as drafting goes, he was average.

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2 hours ago, NYLion said:

Dodds is definitely a glaring omission but I don't know if he has interviewed with anybody. Maybe he doesn't want to leave Indy?

Based on everything we're hearing and just reading the tea leaves, I'm thinking it will be either Dimitroff or Smith and Saleh with an outside shot of Bevell getting the HC job (just a feeling that they really like him).

based on draft history - and results - dimitroff has been better than smith.  

schneider is the best by a mile.  

but i dont think you can divorce drafting players from developing them, and it helps schneider that he has a good head coach and organization behind him (recognizing that he likely had a say in creating that oeganization), whereas smith didnt.  dimitroff, unlike smith, had a good owner.

but if youre going to pick a guy, it helps to have the pedigree of coming from the packers and seahawks.  two of the best organizations in football for the last decade.

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8 hours ago, NYLion said:

This is not the same as resting a starter for a game. If he had started Sudfeld from the beginning of the game, there wouldn't have been nearly as much backlash. He put in a QB who has no future on the team for a QB who does in the 4th quarter of a 3 point game, I can't ever recall something like that happen.

So it's not as bad to show that you have no  interest in winning from the outset?  I'm not seeing that.  Plus Pederson did give Hurts a chance to win, or at least take the lead, and he missed a wide-open receiver in the end zone.

And the Eagles got something valuable out of the loss.  Moving up three places in the draft order, especially near the top, is often a very big deal.  Look at the 6-8 picks last year compared to the 9, or for that matter in recent drafts generally, and 6 looks like a significantly better place to be than 9.

If the Lions picked one spot higher last year, they could have had Chase Young.  Instead they got Jeff Okudah.  If I were a fan of the Lions, I would have gladly accepted whatever tanking losses were necessary to make that move up.

I have no problem with what Pederson did. 

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2 hours ago, six-hopper said:

So it's not as bad to show that you have no  interest in winning from the outset?  I'm not seeing that.  Plus Pederson did give Hurts a chance to win, or at least take the lead, and he missed a wide-open receiver in the end zone.

And the Eagles got something valuable out of the loss.  Moving up three places in the draft order, especially near the top, is often a very big deal.  Look at the 6-8 picks last year compared to the 9, or for that matter in recent drafts generally, and 6 looks like a significantly better place to be than 9.

If the Lions picked one spot higher last year, they could have had Chase Young.  Instead they got Jeff Okudah.  If I were a fan of the Lions, I would have gladly accepted whatever tanking losses were necessary to make that move up.

I have no problem with what Pederson did. 

The Eagles franchise should be fined and lose the draft pick. 

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This is just a hunch with little supporting evidence but the Lions completed an in-person interview with Vikings Assistant GM George Paton yesterday. I think given the obvious ties between the Vikings GM and Chris Spielman, that Paton ends up being the next Lions GM after having been recommended by Chris via his brother.

I think of all the names that are now linked to the Lions John Schneider is an obvious first choice for me. That said, if they can't interview Schneider and Seattle blocks them than Rams Director of College Scouting Brad Holmes is probably my second choice followed by Dimitroff or Paton in third. 

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I think one of the lines you can draw in sports competition is whether what you are doing benefits the present tense team strategically as opposed to some future theoretical team. I'd say that's why it is in general not frowned on when a team that clinched a playoff spot at game 15 holds players out of game 16 even if there might be implications for the other team. You are giving that team's players the best shot to win the biggest prize. Think about the way baseball managers handle pitching  - often not 'competing' as hard as they could in terms of using the absolute best pitcher for an immediate situation because saving him for a higher leverage or more standings relevant situation the next day is pretty universally considered correct strategy. 

But it clearly changes when you ask today's player not to compete (or prevent him from doing so) for the benefit of a future set of possibly different players  - then it moves out of the sphere of clearly acceptable tactics and things get greyer.

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On 1/5/2021 at 10:40 AM, Motown Bombers said:

 

Hey, Sudfeld competed, just as the Lions competed for a playoff spot.  They just didn't do it very well.

In any event, I don;t see a gray area.  If you have a chance to win a championship now, you do what you think gives you the best chance to do that.  And if you have no chance, like the Eagles, you do what you think gives you the best chance to improve so you can contend in the future.  As I said above, looking at the difference in the relative quality of draft picks three spots apart, especially near the top, drafting three spots higher -- and for that matter, often just one or two spots higher --  has been a big advantage.  Last year, the Lions missed out on Chase Young by one spot, and settled for Jeff Okudah instead.  And Okudah is nowhere near as valuable as Young.

As for this year's draft class and the mock drafts, it appears to me that the Eagles can do quite a bit better at six than they would have at nine.  Not to mention being higher in subsequent rounds, too.  When you're a four-win team, you need all the help you can get.  

So, again, I see no real difference between sacrificing a game to rest and protect guys for the playoffs and sacrificing one to improve your draft position and your future.

By the way, it's not as if Jalen Hurts was lighting it up in that game.  In fact, he was terrible, and Sudfeld actually had a higher completion percentage.  Hurts was a woeful 7-for-20 passing  --  a 35-percent completion rate, for just 72 yards and an interception.  Sudfeld was 5-for-12 (42 percent) for 32 yards and a pick.  So Pederson replaced one sucky quarterback with another one.  Not as much of a story as it's being made out to be.

 

 

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schneider is a pipe dream.  not happening unless you want to give up multiple picks for him, including your number one.

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Some random internet guy who apparently works at a San Francisco bakery thinks the Lions are hiring Saleh. 

 

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Would be about right for the Lions to hire a head coach with no input from their nonexistent GM. 😁

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