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Considering how messed up this offseason was, the Lions coaching situation and the fact I don't think he was ever quite 100% I'm not going to put too much stock into how he looked this season.   He also drew some brutal matchups,  particularly his first few games.  I think he got Davonte Adams, Hopkins and the Saints passing attack his first few games.   Talk about jumping right into the deep end.  

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2 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

That's an awfully big ask for a guy starting out this bad. It's true there is a learning curve for CBs, but I think that may be being oversold in Okudah's case. The ones that end up all-stars still usually start out pretty fair out of the box. Jalen Ramsey, Marshon Lattimore had fine first years. Ronde Barber didn't do anything his first year, but he didn't play -- the 1st year he played he was good, as were Ty Law and Woodson. Granted those are a high bar but we are talking about him  turning into an all star and that is what those guys were/are.

I think it's also fair to take into account that Okudah's offseason was impacted greatly by COVID. No preseason games and limited full workouts likely prevented him from taking as big of a step as would have been preferred.

-edit- Should have jumped up a page, @RandyMarsh beat me to it.

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6 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I don't understand the fascination with these college coaches when no one the Lions interview, college or pro, will have had more NFL success than Jim Harbaugh. I don't understand why unproven college coaches are getting more buzz around the league than Harbaugh. 

cause Harbaugh sucks?

OK sucks might be a bit too far. But, let's look at it, yes he's had some wins and he got to a superbowl. But his college wins were with Luck a generational QB and Kapernick, make will what you want but he was a high second round pick. When Kap got hurt, at Michigan, he's a pretty blah coach. Then you add in the whole "can't win a big game/never won a conference in college" and is that the person you think is gonna turn your franchise around or do you want to try a new guy who might not be as good, but on the other hand I doubt Harbaugh wins a Superbowl where the new guy might.

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5 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Considering how messed up this offseason was, the Lions coaching situation and the fact I don't think he was ever quite 100% I'm not going to put too much stock into how he looked this season.   He also drew some brutal matchups,  particularly his first few games.  I think he got Davonte Adams, Hopkins and the Saints passing attack his first few games.   Talk about jumping right into the deep end.  

well, I'm glad your optimistic. With a CB, I can understand getting better at the technical stuff like run coverage assignments and not blowing coverage assignments, but I'm a little skeptical how much a guy improves in the basic stay-on-your-man-and-don't-let-him-catch-the-ball part. That part is mostly speed/quickness/vision. I'm sure learning to read better the QBs and WRs you've played against before is going to help, just not how much.

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23 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

cause Harbaugh sucks?

OK sucks might be a bit too far. But, let's look at it, yes he's had some wins and he got to a superbowl. But his college wins were with Luck a generational QB and Kapernick, make will what you want but he was a high second round pick. When Kap got hurt, at Michigan, he's a pretty blah coach. Then you add in the whole "can't win a big game/never won a conference in college" and is that the person you think is gonna turn your franchise around or do you want to try a new guy?

I come back to the creativity issue. Coaching college and pro are different skills sets in general except for one aspect, and that is if you are a very creative Xs and Os guy. I think those are the guys that can flourish anywhere because that is a strength that plays well at every level. I've never heard anyone call Harbaugh a particularly innovative X's and O's guy.

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Okudah is also at a huge disadvantage to all the other rookies.  

He plays for the Lions. 

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58 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

cause Harbaugh sucks?

OK sucks might be a bit too far. But, let's look at it, yes he's had some wins and he got to a superbowl. But his college wins were with Luck a generational QB and Kapernick, make will what you want but he was a high second round pick. When Kap got hurt, at Michigan, he's a pretty blah coach. Then you add in the whole "can't win a big game/never won a conference in college" and is that the person you think is gonna turn your franchise around or do you want to try a new guy who might not be as good, but on the other hand I doubt Harbaugh wins a Superbowl where the new 

 

come on man.  kapernick was a bust until harbaugh got a hold of him and started running an rpo offense in the nfl which was unheard of at the time.

after harbaugh left kapernick went back to sucking.  you can criticize him for michigan all you want, but the 49er criticism is nothing but revisionist history.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

well, I'm glad your optimistic. With a CB, I can understand getting better at the technical stuff like run coverage assignments and not blowing coverage assignments, but I'm a little skeptical how much a guy improves in the basic stay-on-your-man-and-don't-let-him-catch-the-ball part. That part is mostly speed/quickness/vision. I'm sure learning to read better the QBs and WRs you've played against before is going to help, just not how much.

For the record I'm not saying that he is going to be a stud for sure, I think he is just cause of where he was drafted and what all the scouts had to say about him but I don't know for sure.  I'm just saying I wouldn't write him off based off of this year.   

Also you improve by improving your technique, knowledge of players and just overall savviness.(knowing how physical you can be in the NFL and learning the subtle tricks you can get away with)  

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21 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

For the record I'm not saying that he is going to be a stud for sure, I think he is just cause of where he was drafted and what all the scouts had to say about him but I don't know for sure.  I'm just saying I wouldn't write him off based off of this year.   

Also you improve by improving your technique, knowledge of players and just overall savviness.(knowing how physical you can be in the NFL and learning the subtle tricks you can get away with)  

Plenty of NFL cornerbacks took a few years to develop,  Kyle Fuller was awful with the Bears for three years but turned into an all pro in year 4.  It happens.

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I'm not really worried about Okhuda long term, as long as he's healthy. He was also put in a bad position to succeed, along with his groin issues, which is the worst injury  for a corner.

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12 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

cause Harbaugh sucks?

OK sucks might be a bit too far. But, let's look at it, yes he's had some wins and he got to a superbowl. But his college wins were with Luck a generational QB and Kapernick, make will what you want but he was a high second round pick. When Kap got hurt, at Michigan, he's a pretty blah coach. Then you add in the whole "can't win a big game/never won a conference in college" and is that the person you think is gonna turn your franchise around or do you want to try a new guy who might not be as good, but on the other hand I doubt Harbaugh wins a Superbowl where the new guy might.

But Harbaugh recruited and developed Andrew Luck who was only a 3 star recruit. Harbaugh coached in the NFL for 4 years and went to the NFC Championship 3 times and made a Super Bowl appearance. The 49ers were 6-10 before Harbaugh and went 13-3 his first year. They didn't have a winning record or playoff appearance in the previous 8 seasons. He revived the career of Alex Smith and Kapernick was not the same QB after he left. This is total nonsense. Name me a legitimate coaching candidate, college or pro, who has had more success than Jim Harbaugh. You won't find one unless there is a surprise resignation/firing. 

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I've said this before somewhere on this board but it's worth repeating. The things that make people hate Harbaugh at Michigan - namely, his failure to beat Ohio State and take the "next step" - is something that just doesn't apply in the same way in the NFL.

Ohio State is a school that has chosen to sell their souls to win football games. Harbaugh has been tasked to then beat that team without cutting corners and by doing everything on the straight-and-narrow. You don't see Vanderbilt coaches getting scrutinized for failing to consistently beat Florida, yet as an institution Michigan is closer to Vanderbilt and Ohio State is closer to Florida than either are close to each other at this point. He is 49-22 at Michigan. Just because 5 of those 22 losses came against a team you hate more than Satan himself doesn't invalidate a .690 winning percentage.

On the other hand, big games in the NFL are when you come into Cincinnati on Christmas Eve at 8-6 to play a 5-9 Bengals team needing a win to make the playoffs. Harbaugh has almost always won the games he is supposed to.

I think he'd be a phenomenal get for the Lions if the fanbase didn't run him out of town before he got a chance.

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

But Harbaugh recruited and developed Andrew Luck who was only a 3 star recruit. Harbaugh coached in the NFL for 4 years and went to the NFC Championship 3 times and made a Super Bowl appearance. The 49ers were 6-10 before Harbaugh and went 13-3 his first year. They didn't have a winning record or playoff appearance in the previous 8 seasons. He revived the career of Alex Smith and Kapernick was not the same QB after he left. This is total nonsense. Name me a legitimate coaching candidate, college or pro, who has had more success than Jim Harbaugh. You won't find one unless there is a surprise resignation/firing. 

Andrew Luck was a top 60 overall recruit and one of the top 5 QB recruit.   

Interesting to look back to 2008.  The Pro style qb ahead of him were Blaine Gabbert and Dayne Crist and the Dual Threats were Terrell Pryor and EJ Manual.    Crazy how it works out.    RG3, Mike Glennon, and Landry Jones were also in his class.

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14 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I've said this before somewhere on this board but it's worth repeating. The things that make people hate Harbaugh at Michigan - namely, his failure to beat Ohio State and take the "next step" - is something that just doesn't apply in the same way in the NFL.

 

With Harbaugh at MI it comes down to whether you view the last 11 games as a short term aberration, or the irreversible prologue to a coach who has lost his pixie dust and isn't going to get it back,  a la Mark Dantonio. Or IOW, is he capable of getting back to beating the other teams beside OSU with any regularity or not. Say what you want about what a mess this season was, the teams we played faced the same hurdles but were better prepared and better manned than Harbaugh's team was. I have trouble seeing why Harbaugh gets a pass on not dealing with the issues he faced in 2020 that were no different from those faced by the teams that hung crooked numbers on him. Maybe from inside the program Warde Manuel can persuade himself there were enough unique issues in Ann Arbor to justify the terrible performances on the field.

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2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

But Harbaugh recruited and developed Andrew Luck who was only a 3 star recruit. Harbaugh coached in the NFL for 4 years and went to the NFC Championship 3 times and made a Super Bowl appearance. The 49ers were 6-10 before Harbaugh and went 13-3 his first year. They didn't have a winning record or playoff appearance in the previous 8 seasons. He revived the career of Alex Smith and Kapernick was not the same QB after he left. This is total nonsense. Name me a legitimate coaching candidate, college or pro, who has had more success than Jim Harbaugh. You won't find one unless there is a surprise resignation/firing. 

Don't even bother. I pointed this out to him a few times and got no response. He seems to be steadfast in his thought that Harbaugh sucks and no facts presented will change that.

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25 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Andrew Luck was a top 60 overall recruit and one of the top 5 QB recruit.   

Interesting to look back to 2008.  The Pro style qb ahead of him were Blaine Gabbert and Dayne Crist and the Dual Threats were Terrell Pryor and EJ Manual.    Crazy how it works out.    RG3, Mike Glennon, and Landry Jones were also in his class.

He was a 4 star recruit. He wasn't an elite recruit like Trevor Lawrence or even Justin Fields who were 5 star guys, Harbaugh developed him into a great QB. Most people didn't even know who Andrew Luck was when he started at Stanford. None of the top programs even gave him an offer to my recollection.

I'm not even advocating for the Lions to hire him but he should get credit for his high level success at different levels. He has a better resume than most of the available candidates despite his recent failings at Michigan.

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15 minutes ago, NYLion said:

He was a 4 star recruit. He wasn't an elite recruit like Trevor Lawrence or even Justin Fields who were 5 star guys, Harbaugh developed him into a great QB. Most people didn't even know who Andrew Luck was when he started at Stanford. None of the top programs even gave him an offer to my recollection.

I'm not even advocating for the Lions to hire him but he should get credit for his high level success at different levels. He has a better resume than most of the available candidates despite his recent failings at Michigan.

There are only 25 total players in any class that make 5 star.  It’s the super elite.  Usually just a couple of QB.  4 star is an all American caliber recruit.  There were 4 total QB in all of the country that were rated higher than he was coming out of HS. 
 

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Just now, Hongbit said:

There are only 25 total players in any class that make 5 star.  It’s the super elite.  Usually just a couple of QB.  4 star is an all American caliber recruit.  There were 4 total QB in all of the country that were rated higher than he was coming out of HS. 
 

My point is that Harbarugh developed a guy who was a good high school player into a great college QB. Keepleyland keeps saying that Harbaugh inherited a generational QB. He did not inherit a generational QB, he molded him into a generational QB.

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Harbaugh has proven to be a tremendous coach that has turned programs around everywhere that he’s been except for one place.     I would agree that Luck was a good prospect that grew into a superstar under Harbaugh.   The same goes for Colin Kaepernick. 

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Even Michigan he turned around right away although the beginning of his tenure was the high point. People seem to forget how bad the Rich Rod and Hoke eras were before Harbaugh took over.

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Was it not Harbaugh who recruited Luck? Why on earth is that a negative for Harbaugh and not for Meyer? What has Urban Meyer proven outside of recruiting that would make him a good NFL head coach where recruiting is neutralized? Harbaugh has the credentials. 

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3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

But Harbaugh recruited and developed Andrew Luck who was only a 3 star recruit. n

No he wasn't. He was ranked in the top 50 recruits in the country

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1 minute ago, Keepleyland2 said:

No he wasn't. He was ranked in the top 50 recruits in the country

So Harbaugh recruiting one of the top QBs in the country is a bad thing? Are you serious? 

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11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Was it not Harbaugh who recruited Luck? Why on earth is that a negative for Harbaugh and not for Meyer? What has Urban Meyer proven outside of recruiting that would make him a good NFL head coach where recruiting is neutralized? Harbaugh has the credentials. 

Well Ubrna won at Bowling Green, Utah, Flordia and Oho State running a bunch of different styles and it wasnt like he was landing Five Star recruits at Utah and Bowling Green. 

Ubran also didn't get worked over in every big game.

 

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