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Matt Patricia/Bob Quinn fired - Holmes/Cambell Hired as GM/Coach

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53 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Shame the Skins didn’t draft Tua or Herbert last year and left Chase Young for the Lions.   

why?  so they can throw for 4 yards per attempt like tua and then get benched when you need to win the game?

i dont see the fascination with him.

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2 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Except when you don't have enough pro bowl players. Nobody has ever won a superbowl title with a bunch of really good starters. 

That's what I'm getting at. Why would Miami trade why far back and get a lesser player to get more picks when they already have a bajillion? At some point you need really good players too, and those are often found high in the draft

Too many fans fall in love with this idea of trading back. The numbers show the team that picks the higest in trade back deals, often ends up the winner of the deal. 

I agree to an extent, but there is also value in the draft being a bit of a lottery (particularly in the later rounds) and the more picks you have the more likely you are to strike. You do your analysis as best you can, and for sure there are GMs and front offices out there that are better than others at finding those Pro Bowlers, but I don't think it's fair to say that picking at #3 vs. picking at #10 + #42 + #105 (just throwing stuff out there) means you're losing out on your chance at a Pro Bowler. There are quite a few available at #10, still some available at #42, and still those really good starters at #105.

If you're Miami and you see your guy at #3, your sure-fire, not-gonna-miss, 100% Pro Bowler, then sure, fire, get him. But if you just like three to five guys, then the more picks you have the better. 

And it's beside your point, but there have been some pretty average to above average teams who made a run and won the Super Bowl.

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On 12/27/2020 at 7:44 PM, Motown Bombers said:

I would rather have the college coach who has actually coached a team to a Super Bowl and three NFC Championship games. 

That was when he was only partially crazy.

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

I wouldn't be disappointed. 

That would be solid. A Dimitroff-Saleh pairing would be fine too although I get why some would be skeptical about another defensive coordinator/first time head coach taking the reins. The defense needs a lot more help than the offense so I prefer the defensive minded coach.

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I like Saleh a lot and wouldn't have a problem at all with him as a coach. That said, this is an offensive league and I'd just prefer a sharp offensive mind as coach. Obviously I want that person to also be able lead a team in the locker room and on the practice field and coach without making Caldwell-esque mistakes in-game. My main worry with a defensive guy as coach is what happens if that Head Coach loses his Offensive Coordinator, ala what happened to Dan Quinn in Atlanta after Kyle Shanahan left his staff. Atlanta was able to make it to a Super Bowl on the back of a great offense, with a solid play caller like Kyle Shanahan, and then when they lost Shanahan their offense seemingly took a step back.

I think a Thomas Dimitroff/Urban Meyer pairing would be great. Meyer has both an offensive and defensive pedigree as a coach and has won big time every where he has went. Sure the guy can be a douche, but who cares if what you do translates to success on the field and wins. If I can't get Meyer in Ann Arbor, Detroit is the next best option. Plus, the Lions said they wanted experience and both Dimitroff and Meyer have tons of experience.

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I think my GM and coaching top 5 would look something like this . . .

GM:

1. Ed Dodds, Colts Assistant GM and former Seahawks Director of Player Personnel 

2. Joe Hortiz, Ravens Director of Player Personnel

3. Thomas Dimitroff, Former Falcons GM

4. Trent Kirchner, Seahawks Co-Director of Player Personnel

5. Scott Frittner, Seahawks Co-Director of Player Personnel

Head Coach:

1. Urban Meyer

2. Lincoln Riley

3. Brian Daboll

4. Robert Saleh

5. Eric Bieniemy

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On 12/28/2020 at 3:47 PM, MichiganCardinal said:

I agree to an extent, but there is also value in the draft being a bit of a lottery (particularly in the later rounds) and the more picks you have the more likely you are to strike.

That's a misnomer. 
 

It's only true if all the picks are equal/weighed the same. They are not .That's what so many people don't get. Having more picks doesn't mean your any more likely to find a really good player, in fact it lowers your chances. 

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On 12/28/2020 at 3:47 PM, MichiganCardinal said:

t #3 vs. picking at #10 + #42 + #105

Of course it doesnt mean you are losing your choice. And there are situation where having hte more picks might be better. But what you keep ignoring is that Miami already has a boat load of picks. What sense does it make to trade back for even more picks, lowering your chances at a high high impact player for more Jeff Backus' of the world. Whether Miami decides it needs a WR, T or DE to help its team they will all be there at 3. 

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12 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

That's a misnomer. 
 

It's only true if all the picks are equal/weighed the same. They are not .That's what so many people don't get. Having more picks doesn't mean your any more likely to find a really good player, in fact it lowers your chances. 

 

12 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Of course it doesnt mean you are losing your choice. And there are situation where having hte more picks might be better. But what you keep ignoring is that Miami already has a boat load of picks. What sense does it make to trade back for even more picks, lowering your chances at a high high impact player for more Jeff Backus' of the world. Whether Miami decides it needs a WR, T or DE to help its team they will all be there at 3. 

Every year, Pro Bowl caliber players are selected in 3rd-5th round, starters are selected in the 6th and 7th rounds, and complete busts are selected in every round. While some talent departments are better at finding the Kenny Golladay (2017 #96) and Chris Godwin (2017 #84) amongst the Carlos Henderson (2017 #82, now in the CFL) and Chad Williams (2017 #98, now a free agent), there is truth to that still being a bit of a shot in the dark, no matter who your front office is. As much evaluation and preparation you do, it is impossible to fully know how those talents will transition to the NFL (or Godwin and Golladay would have been 1st round guys). So yes, if my choice is either one pick per round or picking a little later early on (and still getting one of my identified guys) and also having more darts to throw around in the 3rd-7th round, I'm going to choose the latter.

Are there possible scenarios in which there could be too many picks? Sure, but I think that's a rarity. Miami has nine picks right now in 2021. Twelve teams made 9 or more selections in 2020. And again, if Miami thinks their guy is there when they pick, they should take him. I'm not advocating for trading down 100% of the time. But if they have three to five guys graded equally, there is no reason to just pick your favorite at #3 instead of trying to drop a few spots and picking up more later, either in those 3rd-5th rounds, or even in 2022.

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I’m intrigued by him.  He’s a super energetic, culture builder and reminds me of the young successful version of Jim Harbaugh.   I like some other names better for the Lions but I wouldn’t hate it.   He’s been able to turn around more than one historically bad program. 

I know some may mention this poor year at Minnesota but this was not a real season especially in the Big Ten.  It was a fantasy created so that conferences could still collect their precious TV money.  It isn’t is anywhere close to a normal season and I don’t think any coaches should be judged very much on it.  

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17 minutes ago, Hongbit said:
It isn’t is anywhere close to a normal season and I don’t think any coaches should be judged very much on it.  

except jim harbaugh.

just kidding, i agree that coaches should not be judged by this college football "season."

fleck strikes me as a college guy much more than a pro guy.  i expect to see him make the move to the next tier in college rather than the nfl.

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1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Are there possible scenarios in which there could be too many picks?

well, just to state the obvious, if you have an above average team, fewer of your picks are going to be able to beat out an existing player for a spot so your extra picks end up wasted, you might as well have tried for a higher pick at a position that could give you an upgrade. Of course while this is good logic in theory, the injury and turnover rate of an NFL roster is so high that I don't know if you ever get to a point where it is true in practice. In any case it probably makes a lot less difference than how much time and effort goes into your scouting. If the lions are any example, it's the number of misses that kills you, no matter how many picks you have.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

fleck strikes me as a college guy much more than a pro guy.  i expect to see him make the move to the next tier in college rather than the nfl.

1024px-Michigan_Wolverines_logo.svg.png

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If you look back on the Lions draft history they have seemed to find only 1 starting player for their roster in most drafts.  There are plenty of quality backups and depth players and some nice starters playing on other teams now.  That’s pretty concerning.   

2020 does look like it could be promising with 3 or 4 potential starters but that could also be due to how watered down the talent is on the roster now.

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20 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

 

I think a Thomas Dimitroff/Urban Meyer pairing would be great. Meyer has both an offensive and defensive pedigree as a coach and has won big time every where he has went. Sure the guy can be a douche, but who cares if what you do translates to success on the field and wins. If I can't get Meyer in Ann Arbor, Detroit is the next best option. Plus, the Lions said they wanted experience and both Dimitroff and Meyer have tons of experience.

Can't be more of an arrogant douche than Fat-Tricia. By the way sit up straight, you look like a slob man....

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8 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

If you look back on the Lions draft history they have seemed to find only 1 starting player for their roster in most drafts.  There are plenty of quality backups and depth players and some nice starters playing on other teams now.  That’s pretty concerning.   

2020 does look like it could be promising with 3 or 4 potential starters but that could also be due to how watered down the talent is on the roster now.

2020 will be defined by what Okudah does. Even if Quinn got a starter or two in rounds 2-3-4 it won't matter if Okudah doesn't develop into an All Pro corner.

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

except jim harbaugh.

just kidding, i agree that coaches should not be judged by this college football "season."

fleck strikes me as a college guy much more than a pro guy.  i expect to see him make the move to the next tier in college rather than the nfl.

Yeah, that "row the boat" mentality is tailor made for the college game. I don't know much about Flek as a systems or X and O's guy but he seems like a guy who will always be a college coach, not too dissimilar from Dabo in the sense that they seem to live for recruiting and coaching kids. He'll move to a bigger school in a few years.

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Where I'm at heading into the New Year...

GM:

  • Ed Dodds
  • Rick Smith
  • Louis Riddick
  • Thomas Dimitroff

HC:

  • Robert Saleh
  • Jim Harbaugh
  • Lincoln Riley
  • Urban Meyer

This is in a bit of order by preference, but I think I'd be okay with almost any combination of the above, maybe with some exception. Dodds/Saleh would be my highest preference right now. I'd add Bienemy to the HC list but my gut tells me he's a near lock for the Texans job.

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2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

2020 will be defined by what Okudah does. Even if Quinn got a starter or two in rounds 2-3-4 it won't matter if Okudah doesn't develop into an All Pro corner.

I will be disappointed  if Okudah doesn't turn into an All Pro caliber player cause that's what you expect when you pick a db at 3 but I think the draft itself could still be a positive even if he isn't.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I will be disappointed  if Okudah doesn't turn into an All Pro caliber player cause that's what you expect when you pick a db at 3 but I think the draft itself could still be a positive even if he isn't.

That's an awfully big ask for a guy starting out this bad. It's true there is a learning curve for CBs, but I think that may be being oversold in Okudah's case. The ones that end up all-stars still usually start out pretty fair out of the box. Jalen Ramsey, Marshon Lattimore had fine first years. Ronde Barber didn't do anything his first year, but he didn't play -- the 1st year he played he was good, as were Ty Law and Woodson. Granted those are a high bar but we are talking about him  turning into an all star and that is what those guys were/are.

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i dont want anything to do with urban meyer.  in college?  yes.  in the pros?  no.

if the nfl were a league where you could outspend your opponent for talent like college football, i'd be fine with him.  but its not.  so no for urban.  same for dabo.

plus dabo and urban are such colossal scum bags i dont want either of them near the lions.

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I don't understand the fascination with these college coaches when no one the Lions interview, college or pro, will have had more NFL success than Jim Harbaugh. I don't understand why unproven college coaches are getting more buzz around the league than Harbaugh. 

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36 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

That's an awfully big ask for a guy starting out this bad. It's true there is a learning curve for CBs, but I think that may be being oversold in Okudah's case. The ones that end up all-stars still usually start out pretty fair out of the box. Jalen Ramsey, Marshon Lattimore had fine first years. Ronde Barber didn't do anything his first year, but he didn't play -- the 1st year he played he was good, as were Ty Law and Woodson. Granted those are a high bar but we are talking about him  turning into an all star and that is what those guys were/are.

Agree that it is alot to ask but when you take a guy that high you ultimately expect them to be a Pro Bowler.   If he ends up "just" being a top 10 guy I don't think people would label him a bust or anything but I think it would be fair to say that it would be disappointing. 

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