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Buddha

2020 NBA Draft

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

i'm sure he would deal rose and griffin in a minute if he could.

the other two are young enough to stick around.  sekou is still young and might have an opportunity to get better.  and - even though he's french - i saw a lot of warning signs last year that worried me.  hopefully he shows some progress this year.  he is only 19.

I have a feeling that they might want to keep Rose to have a vet around with all the new young guys in the fold then trade him at the deadline when he might have more value. 

BTW, it turns out that the Pistons traded FOUR!!! 2nd rounders in the Kennard deal and got Jaylen Hands from the Nets so essentially, Bey+Hands for Kennard+4 2nds. Yeesh, pretty pricey if you ask me but at least the Pistons 2nds are in the '24-'26 drafts when they should be a better team (the first one is a '23 Portland 2nd).

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They basically combined the Kennard and Brown trade into a bigger three way that’s why you’re seeing all those second rounders. It’s not just the Luke deal. 

So, we got Bey, Hands, Musa, McGruder, considerations from Clippers, and considerations from Nets. 
 

Either way, I’m not bothered by second rounders. If you want ‘em, you can just buy ‘em. 

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9 hours ago, NYLion said:

I have a feeling that they might want to keep Rose to have a vet around with all the new young guys in the fold then trade him at the deadline when he might have more value. 

BTW, it turns out that the Pistons traded FOUR!!! 2nd rounders in the Kennard deal and got Jaylen Hands from the Nets so essentially, Bey+Hands for Kennard+4 2nds. Yeesh, pretty pricey if you ask me but at least the Pistons 2nds are in the '24-'26 drafts when they should be a better team (the first one is a '23 Portland 2nd).

im not sure rose is the type of vet you want around.  he's a quiet guy and his best ability is to come into the game and get points for himself.  he's not the type of player who is a leader.

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37 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Weaver seems to be slacking today.  Its almost 10am and no deals.

Free agency doesn't open until 6pm.

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24 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

Free agency doesn't open until 6pm.

Ah, so he's behind the scenes getting things queued up and going through mock scenarios.  My apologies.

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Their jersey numbers will be:

Hayes: 7
Bey: 41
Steward: 28
Lee: 38

This draft class is already smarter than Stanley Johnston who picked #3 and Reggie Jackson who picked #1 as if those numbers weren't sacred and about to be retired.

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I have watched at least two games of each player I'm about to comment on.  Seems like enough info to judge them on...

1) Anthony Edwards - Kid can't shoot.  He shot 28% from the floor and 25% from three for the preseason.  Stanley Johnson is making fun of his shooting.  Gorgeous chase down block a few games ago and nice D on Luka.

2) James Wiseman - Hasn't played and no injury listed.  That would be Covid.

3) LaMello Ball - Anthony Edwards is making fun of his shooting.  He went for 26/27.  Drops some beautiful passes though.  I think he is already the second best passer in the league behind Lebron.  Shame the rest of his game is poo.

4) Patrick Williams - I now understand why he shot up the board at the end.  Solid game all around.  Can even play a bit of point forward in certain situations.  

5) Isaac Okoro - It appears he worked on his shot a bit.  53/45 shooting splits.  Strong finisher around the rim.  Dark horse ROY of that shooting holds up.

6) Onyeka Okongwu - Has not played due to a foot injury.

7) Killian Hayes - His shooting is awful.  28/22 split.  Odd thing is, I think his form is at least decent.  But he seems to flair out his left leg every shot, often crossing his body and sometimes landing in front of his right leg.  More TO's than assists and looks slow.

8 ) Obi Toppin - His defense looked as bad as advertised but his offense wasn't nearly as good as they said.

9) Deni Avdija - Shooting the lights out.  Does a bit of everything sort of like Williams.  Will be fun watching him stand there and watch Russ dribble the **** out of the ball all year.

10) Jalen Smith - I only saw him once.  Don't wanna be rash and judge a guy off of only one game.  I need 2 minimum.  

11) Devin Vassell - My man crush.  Shot 50/50, rebounded, and plays really good defense.  The Spurs were probably the perfect place for this kid to land.  

12) Tyrese Haliburton - Good shot, good defense.  Could end up a good value guy if his team has 2 or 3 stars.  Kind of guy that plays D and hits the open 3 when the D collapses on the stars.

15) Cole Anthony - Shot is falling.  Could be a steal if that keeps up.

16) Isaiah Stewart - Didn't get enough minutes to really judge him.

17) Aleksej Pokuševski - I watched that first game where he went 4-8 from three.  Hollinger tweeted that we now have a 7 foot JR Smith in the league.  That is not a compliment.

19) Saddiq Bey - He is supposed to be a great shooter but has not shown it yet.  No athleticism, no explosiveness. 

2nd Round) Saban Lee - I predict he will play less NBA minutes than his dad had NFL rushing yards (1,512).

My ROY prediction - Absolutely nobody stands out ahead of the rest.  Okoro is great value at +2000 if you have let Satan into your life and partake in gambling.

All Rookie 1st team prediction - Cole Anthony, Patrick Williams, Isaac Okoro, Deni Avdija, and Devin Vasell.  If they do it by position those picks wont work.

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12 hours ago, Deleterious said:

7) Killian Hayes - His shooting is awful.  28/22 split.  Odd thing is, I think his form is at least decent.  But he seems to flair out his left leg every shot, often crossing his body and sometimes landing in front of his right leg.  More TO's than assists and looks slow.

The slowness is really the thing that concerns me so far.  As you said, shot doesn't look bad so I think shooting can/will improve.  Court vision looks solid to me so I'm not worried about the turnovers at this stage. Defense looks pretty solid to me as well.

However, he doesn't seem to have any speed or burst.  Even when he gets the switch and has a bigger, slower defender on him, he's struggled to get any separation on drives to the bucket.

As you said, it's 2 games...so who really knows.  I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to evaluate him this year.

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On 12/20/2020 at 9:36 PM, Deleterious said:

 

5) Isaac Okoro - It appears he worked on his shot a bit.  53/45 shooting splits.  Strong finisher around the rim.  Dark horse ROY of that shooting holds up.

 

My ROY prediction - Absolutely nobody stands out ahead of the rest.  Okoro is great value at +2000 if you have let Satan into your life and partake in gambling.

 

Okoro played 42 minutes against Detroit.  0-4 shooting with 4 turnovers.

I hope you saved your money.

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16 minutes ago, Buddha said:

Okoro played 42 minutes against Detroit.  0-4 shooting with 4 turnovers.

I hope you saved your money.

He played 40+ minutes still so he will get the time.  Just hard to get shots with Sexton and Garland playing well and the 10 WTF shots Drummond will toss up each game.

Obviously Wiseman would be the top pick right now.

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4 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

He played 40+ minutes still so he will get the time.  Just hard to get shots with Sexton and Garland playing well and the 10 WTF shots Drummond will toss up each game.

Obviously Wiseman would be the top pick right now.

He'll never get rookie of the year for the reason you just said:  he plays on a team with Sexton and Garland and they do. not.  pass.

He'll spend his rookie year standing and watching.

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Every draft class has a kid I like strictly based off his name.  This year it was Precious and I think next year it will be David Duke.  

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Put this in the wrong thread...

I have a question on Hayes... :

Because he looks slow to me too. But is he really that slow (foot speed, reaction time, etc...)?

Or is it because he is tentative and uncertain what he is supposed to be doing moment-by-moment?

Meaning... he'll get faster once he gets more comfortable in the league? I mean... it looks a little like recognition and reaction time when I'm watching him so... is anyone else seeing what I am seeing? Does he get faster in the NBA?

(I think that's 5 Q's not 1 but they all revolve around the same issue...)

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hayes looks a lot like spencer dinwiddie to me.  long, not particularly explosive athletically, but able to get to a spot on the floor if he needs to.

like dinwiddie, he may take a while to develop and i hope the pistons dont run out of patience with him like they did with dinwiddie before.

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PS: I'm ready to broom out Griffin and Rose to get some more playing time for the kids. Enough other veterans still in place to establish "culture" and I like what I'm seeing from Grant & Jackson so far. I don't see how Griffin & Rose fit the "Piston's Culture" they are trying to establish anyways...

I mean, Griffin is untradeable at this point, I get that. And Rose may or may not be tradeable at the deadline as an "instant offense" guy that a playoff team is looking to add... The only possible way to move Griffin will be a "SUCKER" deal that never ever (but once in a great while) happens...

Hey Charlotte, wanna help us out?

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His is really slow.   He was slow in Germany, he was slow in Eurocup so of course he is slow in the NBA.  I don't understand why people are shocked by that.

And Dinwiddie?  Really?  The guy shoots 41/31/54.  All three of those are way under league average.  Even with that, Dinwiddie has a much quicker and/or more explosive first step than Hayes..  Dinwiddie also has that sneaky quick cross-over that Hayes doesn't have.  

The best comp I saw for Hayes is Goran Dragic.  But he has to fix his shooting and his inability to go right.  Those are two serious flaws to his game and if neither one is fixed he probably never becomes much of anything.  

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I still think he is going to be a good shooter.  Hayes shot 42% from 3 last year off the dribble, you don't do that with a broken shot.  He sucked off the catch but he shouldn't have to do that much, he nailed his step back jumpers and that's what is really important.   

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55 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

His is really slow.   He was slow in Germany, he was slow in Eurocup so of course he is slow in the NBA.  I don't understand why people are shocked by that...

Didn't know he was "that" slow... especially since I don't watch Germany or Eurocup... Yikes.

Still hoping his reaction times pick up somewhat as he learns the league...

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12 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

Put this in the wrong thread...

I have a question on Hayes... :

Because he looks slow to me too. But is he really that slow (foot speed, reaction time, etc...)?

Or is it because he is tentative and uncertain what he is supposed to be doing moment-by-moment?

Meaning... he'll get faster once he gets more comfortable in the league? I mean... it looks a little like recognition and reaction time when I'm watching him so... is anyone else seeing what I am seeing? Does he get faster in the NBA?

(I think that's 5 Q's not 1 but they all revolve around the same issue...)

Interesting point.

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I think we need to have a lot of patience with Hayes. He's an upside pick unlike somebody like Haliburton who has a lot more polish to his game and was expected to have an impact sooner.

What I liked about Hayes coming into the draft is his feel for the game, he comes across as a savvy player who has a high basketball IQ and is a really good passer. He's also built well physically and has defensive lockdown ability. The questions were his lack of high end athleticism and inability to go right, the latter can be worked on over time. I'm not overly concerned about the shot, the form is there but the release needs some work. This is another thing that can be worked on over time.

What I see is a player who is lacking in confidence, not a player lacking tools similar to Sekou. He's on a team that is run by the veterans  and I don't think it's a coincidence that Hayes best game occurred against the Hawks with Rose and Griffin sitting out which wasn't a great game but certainly better than the others. I think the more reps he gets the better he gets but there will be a lot of bumps in the road before he figures it out, if he figures it out. Patience is required here, a lot of it.

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In defense of Hayes, Casey isn't doing him any favors by starting him.

PG in the NBA is incredibly difficult to play and most rookies really struggle.  Stars like Young and Ja are fine playing right away, but a guy like Hayes would benefit from some bench time, maybe even some DNP-CD's to just watch and get a feel for things.  Especially this year since he wasn't able to play in summer league or participate in a full training camp.  Obviously going up against the opposing teams 2nd PG would also be beneficial.

Maybe Casey bought into the hype Hayes was ahead of other rookies because he played 3 years of pro ball already.  Clearly that isn't the case.

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I agree about the confidence factor; it's only 4 games in, new to the league and the country, etc. Fair to give him at least 40 games if not the whole season before reading too much into things. It sounds like he's a hard worker and hopefully they have a good personalized coaching/development plan for him.  This scouting report is a good pick-me-up when the on-court isn't real pretty yet:

https://in.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2020-killian-hayes-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-and-player-comparison/m71jtfjtighmzh5yepae4tj2

Conversely, I feel Bey (shot) and Stewart (motor) are showing some terrific glimpses.  Weaver wants to control the boards, and with Stewart and some of the FA's, they might be on their way there.

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