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5 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

FIRE THEM NOW.   Will it make the team better?   NO, ......

Aye - and there is the rub. The same leadership will be picking the next GM.

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Oh, and I forgot to mention a GM that is OBSESSED with bringing in Patriots players and I have said this before, and got ridiculed, something I think is flat-out lazy.   We saw it before with Randy Smith and the Padres and Astros.  Just going for guys you already know is lazy.   A couple of players I would understand, but it's been ridiculous.      I will always believe that someone from the Patriots talked up Tavai and scared this Glorified Gopher into taking a 5th round player in the 2nd round............A player so low on the radar of the NFL that the guys who are paid to study every single possible draftee on ESPN had absolutely NOTHING to say about him, had no idea who he was and had no video on him................To me in the modern era of the televised draft, I have never ever seen that before. 

Isn't it clear that Quinn was probably just an errand boy for Belichick?

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Aye - and there is the rub. The same leadership will be picking the next GM.

Yeah, but there is no reason to keep the current GM.   Maybe they get lucky the next time.  You know, the whole Blind Squirrel routine.  

Maybe Brayden Coombs makes some small adjustments that Patricia won't commit too.  Maybe a new voice sparks some sort of life out of these guys.  

It feels just like Michigan...............DON BROWN'S DEFENSE WILL WORK................EVENTUALLY.................IT WILL........I SWEAR.............

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Yeah, but there is no reason to keep the current GM.   Maybe they get lucky the next time.  You know, the whole Blind Squirrel routine.  

Maybe Brayden Coombs makes some small adjustments that Patricia won't commit too.  Maybe a new voice sparks some sort of life out of these guys.  

It feels just like Michigan...............DON BROWN'S DEFENSE WILL WORK................EVENTUALLY.................IT WILL........I SWEAR.............

The Don Brown thing is even worse because there are still idiots out there in NCAAF media that continue to talk this guy up. You cannot have watched UM since Mattison left and think Don Brown is a plus coach.

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20 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The Don Brown thing is even worse because there are still idiots out there in NCAAF media that continue to talk this guy up. You cannot have watched UM since Mattison left and think Don Brown is a plus coach.

don brown's defense has been very good.  they have been in the top 10 in sp+ for defense every year he's been there.  his problem has been michigan's problem for the last 15 years: ohio state's 5 star receivers against michigan's 3rd string dbs is an embarrassing mismatch that michigan cannot stop.

the problem with brown's defense is that it is dependent on having cornerbacks who can cover man to man.  and michigan has terrible cornerbacks this year because they have recruited so poorly at the position for the last two cycles and ambry thomas left the team.

now, one would THINK that a genius defensive coordinator would realize that and switch to a zone heavy defense, but apparently michigan is incapable of doing anything differently.

ohio state may actually score 100 points on michigan this year.  i am totally serious.

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Don Brown's defense is great when they play San Diego State and Maryland and Purdue and Illinois and that's where he builds that great capital.................against REAL teams, it's garbage.  

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

don brown's defense has been very good.  they have been in the top 10 in sp+ for defense every year he's been there.  his problem has been michigan's problem for the last 15 years: ohio state's 5 star receivers against michigan's 3rd string dbs is an embarrassing mismatch that michigan cannot stop.

the problem with brown's defense is that it is dependent on having cornerbacks who can cover man to man.  and michigan has terrible cornerbacks this year because they have recruited so poorly at the position for the last two cycles and ambry thomas left the team.

now, one would THINK that a genius defensive coordinator would realize that and switch to a zone heavy defense, but apparently michigan is incapable of doing anything differently.

ohio state may actually score 100 points on michigan this year.  i am totally serious.

Don Brown's defensive statistics are a fraud. He rolls up his numbers against bad teams and give up real estate by the acre to any good one. And you are exactly right, his schemes do rely 100% on corners he can't recruit - so how does that not make him a fool of a coach? I bet a lot of coaches would look better if they could choose to play with some other coach's recruits!

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Sheila Ford Hamp...............Where the **** are you?  You need to address your fan base today.     They are done with the team and when your fans hate-watch your team in hopes they will lose - something is wrong.  

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1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Sheila Ford Hamp...............Where the **** are you?  You need to address your fan base today.     They are done with the team and when your fans hate-watch your team in hopes they will lose - something is wrong.  

when you don't know what to do, the easiest thing to do is nothing.

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

The worst thing about it is the actual title of this thread.    

Happy Fans -  Great

Angry Fans - Okay, because they still care

Apathetic Fans -  That's deadly and we're at that point now. 

I had a family event yesterday, an early outdoor Thanksgiving dinner (taking advantage of this insane weather).   I had the game on my phone but didn't really pay close attention to it and it didn't bother me one bit.   

I think about how they run good players out of here because they have the audacity to speak up about things not working.  I think about a coach who beat the **** out of these with workouts who looks like the before picture at a weight loss clinic.  A guy who (allegedly) rants and raves about being on time but is 20 minutes late for his own meetings.  A GM who drafts poorly, and the rumor is, has gone against his entire scouting staff on several occasions during the draft (nobody in the room wanted Tabor, Tavai or Okudah).   

They keep making the same awful mistakes.   10 men on the field?   3 times in 2 weeks?   

This is just brutal and to me it's as bad as it's ever been.   Other than a better QB (who looks like he's done now), is this team much better than the 2008 team?    

This bum of a coach is making Jim Caldwell look like Vince Lombardi.   

FIRE THEM NOW.   Will it make the team better?   NO, BUT I WANT MY POUND OF FLESH.......

All of these complaints are legit, and there are so many more.  This was a decent team with a decent HC whose Owner hired a new GM because "9 wins and a 1st round playoff loss isnt good enough"....then proceeded directly into a rebuild which has already taken an eternity from an NFL standpoint, is an absolute embarrassment on Defense, and there seems to be no hope of any improvement.

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

when you don't know what to do, the easiest thing to do is nothing.

She knows what to do.   She just has too much pride to admit she should have kneecapped them at the end of last year.   Normally you give a coach regime at least 3 years, but in those 3 years you have to see some progress and I'm not buying that "we didn't have Stafford" crap..............it was the defense that killed them last year.      I'm just so sick of Matt Patricia and his talking and saying nothing.  You only get away with that when you win and there is ZERO indication that anything with the team is moving in the right direction.   Brian Flores is making Patricia look like a bigger **** than he already does himself.  

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they'll beat the artists formerly known as the redskins and be 4-5 and it will be "were right in the thick of the playoff race!" 

again, the mistake was bringing them back for another year and letting quinn continue to sign players and draft players to fit this scheme.  now youre stuck with flowers and collins on huge deals for minimal production.  

the only hope for an in season firing is if they lose badly on thanksgiving.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Don Brown's defensive statistics are a fraud. He rolls up his numbers against bad teams and give up real estate by the acre to any good one. And you are exactly right, his schemes do rely 100% on corners he can't recruit - so how does that not make him a fool of a coach? I bet a lot of coaches would look better if they could choose to play with some other coach's recruits!

i think brown is a good defensive coordinator, but he cant overcome michigan's main problem of failing to recruit top corners.

but like i said, he hasnt changed his scheme to recognize the problems on the defense.  and its killing them.

when they play ohio state, they should be using all 45 seconds on the play clock and slowing it down on offense so much just so they wont get too embarrassed.

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19 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think brown is a good defensive coordinator, but he cant overcome michigan's main problem of failing to recruit top corners.

but like i said, he hasnt changed his scheme to recognize the problems on the defense.  and its killing them.

when they play ohio state, they should be using all 45 seconds on the play clock and slowing it down on offense so much just so they wont get too embarrassed.

well, I will grant that this is somewhat in the semantics, but for me,  any coach that cannot maximize his scheme to the personnel he has is by definition something other than 'good'. If M can't have another good D until it recruits a couple of Charles Woodsons, that is just too high a bar to accept. Besides - as a college coach - recruiting the guys he needs is half of Browns' job.

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33 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Tua looked good by the way against Arizona in only his second game. Okudah on the other hand . . .

I have to agree with Valenti on this one. His argument before the draft was that you don't get a shot at a top QB often enough to ever pass one by, even it it means changing your immediate plans (i.e. Stafford).  He's right of course, as the Lions are going to find out the hard way.

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12 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I have to agree with Valenti on this one. His argument before the draft was that you don't get a shot at a top QB often enough to ever pass one by, even it it means changing your immediate plans (i.e. Stafford).  He's right of course, as the Lions are going to find out the hard way.

counterpoint: mitch trubisky.

also, wherever will the lions find a qb who can lead a 4th quarter comeback against arizona? 

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I have to agree with Valenti on this one. His argument before the draft was that you don't get a shot at a top QB often enough to ever pass one by, even it it means changing your immediate plans (i.e. Stafford).  He's right of course, as the Lions are going to find out the hard way.

GMs who need to win now are not going to draft a QB that high in the draft when they already have a good one in place. If Quinn had been properly fired after last season, I bet the new GM would have taken a long look at Tua or Herbert. With Quinn, there was no choice (from his personal point of view) but to stick with his plan which is to try to squeak into a playoff spot this season.

You know what the worst part of this season is? Getting those meaningless wins against the Jags and Falcons. It keeps them out of a high enough draft pick to get a franchise QB and it gives Quinntricia just that little bit of extra rope to keep hanging on, not to mention that they are cap strapped for the foreseeable future because of Quinn's "all in" approach.

It's NFL purgatory, basically where the Pistons have been for years. Mediocre talent, mediocre draft pick, no flexibility to do much about it.

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3 hours ago, Buddha said:

i think brown is a good defensive coordinator, but he cant overcome michigan's main problem of failing to recruit top corners.

but like i said, he hasnt changed his scheme to recognize the problems on the defense.  and its killing them.

when they play ohio state, they should be using all 45 seconds on the play clock and slowing it down on offense so much just so they wont get too embarrassed.

Don Brown's defense is like the basketball equivalent of playing a full court press. It looks great against inferior talent. But when it is matched up against higher quality athletes it gets shredded and you have to have something to fall back on. Don Brown does not.

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Just now, Stanley70 said:

Don Brown's defense is like the basketball equivalent of playing a full court press. It looks great against inferior talent. But when it is matched up against higher quality athletes it gets shredded and you have to have something to fall back on. Don Brown does not.

i agree.

i do think he's good, but the best dcoordinators wouldnt be getting absolutely smoked by osu every single year.  its embarrassing.

michigan hasnt been able to compete with osu recruiting wise, but they are not without talent.  to be getting consistently smoked like that signals a problem with coaching.

but can we stop talking about michigan and go back to hating on the lions?

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4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i agree.

i do think he's good, but the best dcoordinators wouldnt be getting absolutely smoked by osu every single year.  its embarrassing.

michigan hasnt been able to compete with osu recruiting wise, but they are not without talent.  to be getting consistently smoked like that signals a problem with coaching.

but can we stop talking about michigan and go back to hating on the lions?

Matt Patricia's defense is the baseball equivalent of playing Miguel Cabrera at shortstop.

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3 hours ago, NYLion said:

GMs who need to win now are not going to draft a QB that high in the draft when they already have a good one in place.

True - as far as it goes. But if we had ownership that knew anything about football, there would have been a mandate to take Tua/Herbert if he had been available whether the GM wanted to or not. There is simply no substitute for the person at the top of an org knowing what they are doing.

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5 hours ago, NYLion said:

GMs who need to win now are not going to draft a QB that high in the draft when they already have a good one in place. If Quinn had been properly fired after last season, I bet the new GM would have taken a long look at Tua or Herbert. With Quinn, there was no choice (from his personal point of view) but to stick with his plan which is to try to squeak into a playoff spot this season.

You know what the worst part of this season is? Getting those meaningless wins against the Jags and Falcons. It keeps them out of a high enough draft pick to get a franchise QB and it gives Quinntricia just that little bit of extra rope to keep hanging on, not to mention that they are cap strapped for the foreseeable future because of Quinn's "all in" approach.

It's NFL purgatory, basically where the Pistons have been for years. Mediocre talent, mediocre draft pick, no flexibility to do much about it.

The funny part is that this years team would be better right now had they took Tua or Herbert and sat them on the bench instead of having Okudah play and get burned week in and out while he learns on the job.  He’s been a liability.  

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33 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

The funny part is that this years team would be better right now had they took Tua or Herbert and sat them on the bench instead of having Okudah play and get burned week in and out while he learns on the job.  He’s been a liability.  

But that means you would have had to be able to win Slay over instead of just chasing him away.

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