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The Presidency of Joseph R. Biden

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I hope I am wrong and the end result of all the debt relief and cancelling debt etc does not drain our economy to the point of no return.  I have worked just about every day of my life since 15 to get where I am and put away what we have put away and would hate to see it all go away because the economy goes in the crapper to pay off poor johnnies overburdened college loans that he signed for.  If we can absorb it and change the way things are done in the future then all the better.

I honestly hope I am wrong and we CAN do the things they want to do and still have things come out clean in 4 years.  I do not believe I am wrong, but I am hoping to be wrong...not only for the future generations, but also my bank account.

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19 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

I hope I am wrong and the end result of all the debt relief and cancelling debt etc does not drain our economy to the point of no return.  I have worked just about every day of my life since 15 to get where I am and put away what we have put away and would hate to see it all go away because the economy goes in the crapper to pay off poor johnnies overburdened college loans that he signed for.  If we can absorb it and change the way things are done in the future then all the better.

I honestly hope I am wrong and we CAN do the things they want to do and still have things come out clean in 4 years.  I do not believe I am wrong, but I am hoping to be wrong...not only for the future generations, but also my bank account.

Debt relief to the middle class theoretically could boost the economy because then they would be able to buy stuff.  Trickle up.  

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28 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

I hope I am wrong and the end result of all the debt relief and cancelling debt etc does not drain our economy to the point of no return.  I have worked just about every day of my life since 15 to get where I am and put away what we have put away and would hate to see it all go away because the economy goes in the crapper to pay off poor johnnies overburdened college loans that he signed for.  If we can absorb it and change the way things are done in the future then all the better.

I honestly hope I am wrong and we CAN do the things they want to do and still have things come out clean in 4 years.  I do not believe I am wrong, but I am hoping to be wrong...not only for the future generations, but also my bank account.

Agreed, my wife and I have payed a combined 175K in student loans off. If I show them my receipts will I get reimbursed? I know the answer to that.

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I am paying over 50K per year for my mom's healthcare.  If Medicare starts paying for dementia, I will get nothing for my receipts, but I still hope other families will some day not have to go through that.  Student loans are different because your education should have a lot of value to your future, but I don't want other people to experience bad situations because I did.  Ideally, college education should be more affordable.  While it does have value, I believe it has become way over priced.     

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19 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I am paying over 50K per year for my mom's healthcare.  If Medicare starts paying for dementia, I will get nothing for my receipts, but I still hope other families will some day not have to go through that.  Student loans are different because your education should have a lot of value to your future, but I don't want other people to experience bad situations because I did.  Ideally, college education should be more affordable.  While it does have value, I believe it has become way over priced.     

Yes, thats apples and oranges. Sorry to hear about your Mom.....

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

I am paying over 50K per year for my mom's healthcare.  

That's pretty sad, for everyone involved.  We, the demon socialists to the north, would not do things any differently I am afraid.  There is no public healthcare coverage for seniors who need assistance whether it is in the home or in a care facility, and a care facility costs thousands per month.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

I am paying over 50K per year for my mom's healthcare.  If Medicare starts paying for dementia, I will get nothing for my receipts, but I still hope other families will some day not have to go through that.  Student loans are different because your education should have a lot of value to your future, but I don't want other people to experience bad situations because I did.  Ideally, college education should be more affordable.  While it does have value, I believe it has become way over priced.     

It is over priced if the mentality is that 60 years ago you could pay off loans working part time at the grocery store, but I thought we did not like using examples from the past to try and fix the future?  Education is important in my book.  Spend ALL THE MONEY on k-12, maybe give some to a 4 year degree, but if you are going for your PHD....sorry you SHOULD be "burdened" with 200k because you are about to make 200k a year....and if you do not make 200k a year?  Oh well, that is life, but they will still complain even making 140k.

Maybe my mentality is wrong because I think the more you pay for something the more value it holds, the better teachers you will get because you can pay them more etc etc.  I do not think post secondary education should be cheap, but I DEFINITELY do think we should be spending a butt ton more money on k-12.

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

I am paying over 50K per year for my mom's healthcare.  If Medicare starts paying for dementia, I will get nothing for my receipts, but I still hope other families will some day not have to go through that.  Student loans are different because your education should have a lot of value to your future, but I don't want other people to experience bad situations because I did.  Ideally, college education should be more affordable.  While it does have value, I believe it has become way over priced.     

My mother is heading down the dementia path currently.  Nothing diagnosable yet, but you can tell something is going on and my wife being an NP that deals with dementia patients all day every day sees it and knows it is on the horizon.

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2 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Agreed, my wife and I have payed a combined 175K in student loans off. If I show them my receipts will I get reimbursed? I know the answer to that.

If you had voted for Bernie you would have gotten reimbursed. A Sanders administration would absolutely have supported a debt reimbursement program. Don't expect such a thing under Biden.

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1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Yes, thats apples and oranges. Sorry to hear about your Mom.....

it's apples and oranges, but the point is whether or not a new generation should get some sort of financial help has nothing to do with whether I got it.  It's like old-time baseball players complaining about how much money players make today because of free agency because they didn't have free agency when they were playing.  If you don't think people should get student debt relief because you don't believe in debt relief that is fair, but to say that they shouldn't get it because you didn't get it doesn't seem like a good reason to me.  

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1 minute ago, tiger337 said:

it's apples and oranges, but the point is whether or not a new generation should get some sort of financial help has nothing to do with whether I got it.  It's like old-time baseball players complaining about how much money players make today because of free agency because they didn't have free agency when they were playing.  If you don't think people should get student debt relief because you don't believe in debt relief that is fair, but to say that they shouldn't get it because you didn't get it doesn't seem like a good reason to me.  

I get what you are saying and while that is not necessarily my reasoning behind thinking the idea is bad...it is hard for a person who REALLY struggled to pay that all back and who may still be struggling to swallow that pill though.  I can totally see that stance.  Like you, though I do not necessarily think it is a good reason to poopoo the idea moving forward...it would just be tough to accept if you had a rough time trying to do the right thing.

I am pretty firmly against the idea because I think it would create a weird void in the economy and would end up causing more harm, but I am not a financial expert.

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

it's apples and oranges, but the point is whether or not a new generation should get some sort of financial help has nothing to do with whether I got it.  It's like old-time baseball players complaining about how much money players make today because of free agency because they didn't have free agency when they were playing.  If you don't think people should get student debt relief because you don't believe in debt relief that is fair, but to say that they shouldn't get it because you didn't get it doesn't seem like a good reason to me.  

I was speaking to you comparing health care reimbursement to college bailout monies. Not sure why you mentioned that in this scenario. I see what you are saying how this could help the economy by freeing up money to those in debt. My question is will this make all student loans (Private, Public school) free? My daughter is a Jr in highschool who has been accepted to a couple Ivy League schools but just assumed it is NOT in our budget to send her to one! 

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8 hours ago, John_Brian_K said:

It is over priced if the mentality is that 60 years ago you could pay off loans working part time at the grocery store, but I thought we did not like using examples from the past to try and fix the future?  Education is important in my book.  Spend ALL THE MONEY on k-12, maybe give some to a 4 year degree, but if you are going for your PHD....sorry you SHOULD be "burdened" with 200k because you are about to make 200k a year....and if you do not make 200k a year?  Oh well, that is life, but they will still complain even making 140k.

Maybe my mentality is wrong because I think the more you pay for something the more value it holds, the better teachers you will get because you can pay them more etc etc.  I do not think post secondary education should be cheap, but I DEFINITELY do think we should be spending a butt ton more money on k-12.

A PhD salary has a large range.  200k isn’t the norm.   140 is even high.  

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3 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

A PhD salary has a large range.  200k isn’t the norm.   140 is even high.  

Most of the people I work with are PhDs.  I don't think any of them are making 200K and few are making 140K.  Those that do make a lot of money work a lot of years before they get there.   That is in academia. There might be a few more in industry, but people don't usually get PhD's to make a lot of money.  Their passion is the subject matter and the potential to make a difference in the world.  It is also often tough for PhD's to find jobs just like anybody else.    

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

Most of the people I work with are PhDs.  I don't think any of them are making 200K and few are making 140K.  Those that do make a lot of money work a lot of years before they get there.   That is in academia. There might be a few more in industry, but people don't usually get PhD's to make a lot of money.  Their passion is the subject matter and the potential to make a difference in the world.  It is also often tough for PhD's to find jobs just like anybody else.    

That is so true.  I have met 1 PhD in industry (30 years ago) and he was a top 10 executive at a multinational manufacturing company (before he got fired) that was a Dow stock (Westinghouse Electric, I worked for the Canadian subsidiary) and he irritated the **** out of everybody by wanting to be addressed as "Dr".  The market for a PhD in manufacturing engineering, or a PhD in any engineering discipline in a manufacturing company, is pretty close to zero.  Maybe it's different in petrochemicals, I haven't any experience there (never lived in Sarnia).  Maybe every steelmaker has room for 1 PhD in metallurgical engineering, I don't know.  Maybe automotive could squeeze in a couple.

And those are just the PhD degrees that have some remote connection to commerce.  What about some of the other PhD's...music, art history...don't your earnings top out at about $65,000 unless you are in the top 1%? 

I teach at a community college, there are a few PhD's there, not many, and they top out at about 115K. 

So the idea that you are going to make a big pot of money as a PhD is way off base, you're probably worse off than an MBA.  Here is what you said, "their passion is the subject matter and the potential to make a difference in the world".  That is precisely correct.  They know that they might starve to death.  To think that a PhD makes 140, never mind 200, is to be detached from the real world by a considerable distance. 

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heh. I used to work with a PhD, and it bugs the **** out of him when people call him "Dr.", so it's pretty much reserved for trolling him. he also makes (I would guess) ~$150k because he's in the private sector ("reliability engineer" at a software company before we were both laid off), but that's a normal pay range for any senior-level non-manager in our industry, degreed or not. at least out west here.

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3 minutes ago, jbhappy said:

heh. I used to work with a PhD, and it bugs the **** out of him when people call him "Dr.", so it's pretty much reserved for trolling him. he also makes (I would guess) ~$150k because he's in the private sector ("reliability engineer" at a software company before we were both laid off), but that's a normal pay range for any senior-level non-manager in our industry, degreed or not. at least out west here.

"but that's a normal pay range for any senior-level non-manager in our industry, degreed or not"...so, is it fair to say that the PhD did not add to his short-term earning potential in your industry?  I'm curious because I'm back east in sort of rust-belt-ish southern Ontario, and a PhD in the private sector is worth, I think, SFA.  Did your PhD friend's earnings justify the additional expense in attaining the PhD?

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32 minutes ago, Charles Liston said:

"but that's a normal pay range for any senior-level non-manager in our industry, degreed or not"...so, is it fair to say that the PhD did not add to his short-term earning potential in your industry?

definitely fair. as far as I'm aware, his new job is also one that would be open to basically any one of us.

32 minutes ago, Charles Liston said:

I'm curious because I'm back east in sort of rust-belt-ish southern Ontario, and a PhD in the private sector is worth, I think, SFA.  Did your PhD friend's earnings justify the additional expense in attaining the PhD?

SFA? I think I can guess the "FA", but the "S" isn't coming through for me.

no idea if it was worth it to him. not really a friend, just a former coworker. I don't know why he did it, but I would guess it was for the love of knowledge.

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6 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

"but that's a normal pay range for any senior-level non-manager in our industry, degreed or not"...so, is it fair to say that the PhD did not add to his short-term earning potential in your industry?  I'm curious because I'm back east in sort of rust-belt-ish southern Ontario, and a PhD in the private sector is worth, I think, SFA.  Did your PhD friend's earnings justify the additional expense in attaining the PhD?

Just as counter point, I do work with PHDs who probably pull down 200K, but most of them were living in poverty until their 40's after 5-8 yrs of graduate school, 2 post docs and years in an assistant professorship working toward tenure -- and only that after having distinguished themselves enough to land a tenure gig at a top college in an top university. Nobody got there without working their butt off. 

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19 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

If you had voted for Bernie you would have gotten reimbursed. A Sanders administration would absolutely have supported a debt reimbursement program. Don't expect such a thing under Biden.

if you had voted for bernie, trump would still be president.

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17 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I was speaking to you comparing health care reimbursement to college bailout monies. Not sure why you mentioned that in this scenario.

To show why I think not wanting somebody else to get something because you didn't get it is poor logic.  

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19 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if you had voted for bernie, trump would still be president.

Technically he still is until 1/20/2021 unless something drastic happens. I get your point however.

 

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