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Who will be the next Tigers manager?

Who will be the next Tigers manager  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will be the next Tiger Manager?

    • Alex Cora
      0
    • Fredi Gonzalez
      2
    • A.J. Hinch
      19
    • Don Kelly
      2
    • George Lombard
      5
    • Lloyd McClendon
      3
    • Phil Nevin
      1
    • Mike Rabelo
      0
    • Marcus Thames
      1
    • Someone Else
      7


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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

jim-leyland-barry-bonds-1991-spring-spat

Didn't Barry Bonds leave Pittsburgh as soon as he could? Also, I'm not sure how that scene plays out today in the age of social media. A white manager berating a black player? That would be making the rounds on Twitter. 

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23 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

We went over this, it's because players will always side with other players and do what they think is best for their career...particularly when upper management is behind it.   

If Dusty Baker told Bonds to not use roids in the late 90s or early 2000s(whenever he supposedly did and when they were illegal in baseball) do you think Bonds would have listened?   I sincerely doubt it cause the roids were potentially making him millions of dollars.   Does that mean he didn't respect Dusty?  No, but he was doing what he thought was best for his career and team.  Same situation here. 

Players thought this would help them perform better, which in turn make them more money and win more games so they did it regardless of if they respected the manager or not.   The fact that they took extra steps to hide it after Hinch called them out about it shows that they atleast had some respect for his authority though.  

That's fine.  We have different definitions for respect.

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16 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Also if we're going to be the morale police, didn't Kenny Rogers get caught cheating for us in the World Series?  You mean to tell me that the opposing team and cameramen could pick up on it but our own manager couldn't?  Obviously Leyland knew about it as did the rest of the team, should they be condemned forever for allowing a player to cheat in a World Series game?   

The Kenny Rogers pine tar thing is not like the trash cans.  Its been mentioned on broadcasts and acknowledged elsewhere that batters are fine with pitchers using pine tar in colder weather so pitchers have better control of the baseball and they don't have a mid 90s (mid 80s for Rogers) fastball at the head.  It was washed off after an inning.  It didn't persist after warning after warning.

th?id=OIP.L29j6X4Wlqcrwg_Hw2IumwAAAA&pid  

Best image I could find.  It was clearly obvious in the 1st.  My memory is that it was still there in the 2nd inning, but definitely not as obvious.  If there are better images out there of the 2nd inning, I'd love to see it.

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10 minutes ago, Casimir said:

That's fine.  We have different definitions for respect.

Did a player ever criticize a single in game decision he made?  There's nothing I can find.  Did they ever second guess a tactical move he made?  Again nothing I can find.  When I talk about respect those are the things I mean, they respect his decision making and baseball mind.  

Do they respect him as an authority figure?  Perhaps not but I don't think player respect any manager like that anymore.  The days where the coaches and managers in sports can boss the players around are gone, the players know they run the show and that goes ten fold when upper management and ownership have their back like what happened in Houston.  

Perfect example of this was with Justin Turner, Dave Roberts told him to stay in quarantine, but guess what, he didn't listen.  He still came out to celebrate and risk the lives of players and their families.  Was it because he didn't respect Roberts or the MLB?  Maybe, maybe not but more than likely was because he knows as a player he can do whatever the **** he wants.   

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19 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Didn't Barry Bonds leave Pittsburgh as soon as he could? Also, I'm not sure how that scene plays out today in the age of social media. A white manager berating a black player? That would be making the rounds on Twitter. 

I think he left because of the organization as a whole (and maybe fan base, too) and a desire to play in San Francisco.  And money probably factored into it as well.

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6 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Did a player ever criticize a single in game decision he made?  There's nothing I can find.  Did they ever second guess a tactical move he made?  Again nothing I can find.  When I talk about respect those are the things I mean, they respect his decision making and baseball mind.  

Do they respect him as an authority figure?  Perhaps not but I don't think player respect any manager like that anymore.  The days where the coaches and managers in sports can boss the players around are gone, the players know they run the show and that goes ten fold when upper management and ownership have their back like what happened in Houston.  

Perfect example of this was with Justin Turner, Dave Roberts told him to stay in quarantine, but guess what, he didn't listen.  He still came out to celebrate and risk the lives of players and their families.  Was it because he didn't respect Roberts or the MLB?  Maybe, maybe not but more than likely was because he knows as a player he can do whatever the **** he wants.   

He made a decision that the sign stealing system in the clubhouse was not good.  The smashing of monitors was proof of this.  But the system carried on, did it not?

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1 minute ago, Casimir said:

He made a decision that the sign stealing system in the clubhouse was not good.  The smashing of monitors was proof of this.  But the system carried on, did it not?

Yes, and they kept getting more discreet about it(which if they didnt respect him at all why would they try to hide it from him?) but what was Hinch supposed to do?  I mean if he benched everybody he would've been fired cause management was behind the cheating, if he got fired then people are going to start wondering why so either he'd have to come up with some excuse or come clean about the cheating which would throw his team and players under the bus.   

He could've quit but again he would then need to come up with some excuse why he is quitting.    

Instead he chose to tell the players how he felt about it, strongly discouraged it and went about his business.  We have to keep in mind this didn't happen every inning of every game, the trash can thing happened on 5% of home game pitches over the course of a few months.   After he told them to stop and he didn't see or notice anything again for a couple weeks he may have not even paid attention to it anymore, especially with how discreet they were being about it.   

Again though, even if he knew there just wasn't a whole lot he could've done that wouldn't have jeopardized his career, perhaps he should've risked his career but I don't know many managers that would have.     

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On another note several years back Boston fired Francona cause he supposedly couldn't control the players but it seems like he's done just fine in Cleveland.   

I can see not hiring Hinch if you don't think he is a good manager and is just a product of being on great teams(I strongly disagree) but if you think he is a good tactical manager and choose not to just cause of this cheating thing I don't agree with.  I think he was behind the 8 ball there and I don't know if any manager would've handled it any differently.  

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3 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yes, and they kept getting more discreet about it(which if they didnt respect him at all why would they try to hide it from him?) but what was Hinch supposed to do?  I mean if he benched everybody he would've been fired cause management was behind the cheating, if he got fired then people are going to start wondering why so either he'd have to come up with some excuse or come clean about the cheating which would throw his team and players under the bus.   

He could've quit but again he would then need to come up with some excuse why he is quitting.    

Instead he chose to tell the players how he felt about it, strongly discouraged it and went about his business.  We have to keep in mind this didn't happen every inning of every game, the trash can thing happened on 5% of home game pitches over the course of a few months.   After he told them to stop and he didn't see or notice anything again for a couple weeks he may have not even paid attention to it anymore, especially with how discreet they were being about it.   

Again though, even if he knew there just wasn't a whole lot he could've done that wouldn't have jeopardized his career, perhaps he should've risked his career but I don't know many managers that would have.     

Its quite possible he is a fantastic manager who was just in a bad spot with everyone circumventing his position on the sign stealing.  I mean, the end of Francona's tenure in Boston was definitely cruddy for different reasons and bounced back with Cleveland.  But I'm just not as sold on Hinch as so many seem to be.

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1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

On another note several years back Boston fired Francona cause he supposedly couldn't control the players but it seems like he's done just fine in Cleveland.   

 

Just now, Casimir said:

I mean, the end of Francona's tenure in Boston was definitely cruddy for different reasons and bounced back with Cleveland. 

OK, you got me by mere seconds....

But it is proof that great minds think alike.

Sometimes.  :)

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4 minutes ago, Casimir said:

 

OK, you got me by mere seconds....

But it is proof that great minds think alike.

Sometimes.  :)

lol that is pretty weird for us to both randomly bring up Francona at the same time.  I wouldn't call us great minds though.:)

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I haven't paid a lot of attention to the fine grain details of the Astros affair. If Hinch really was trying to be a good guy and was alone on an island vs his players *and* his management, then he has my sympathy. If that was the case, the precedent I would cite is Francona in Boston. That clubhouse was out of his control also, yet that doesn't stop people from agreeing that he is maybe the best in the business today.

We can always theorize about what someone might have been able or even maybe should have been able to do, and that is fair as far as goes, but it's harder to know if the hypotheticals ever match up to what the facts really were.

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Just now, RandyMarsh said:

lol that is pretty weird for us to both randomly bring up Francona at the same time.

I had thought of it a few posts back and forgot about it.  I kind of wonder how fortunes would have turned for the Tigers if Leyland called it quits a year earlier and the Tigers were able to replace him with Francona.

For what its worth, it appears Francona is signed with Cleveland through 2022.

Just now, RandyMarsh said:

I wouldn't call us great minds though.:)

OK, just so we can agree on something, I'll go with that.

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I am worried that he is going to have a Luhnow-type interview at some point, where he deflects and excuses himself - that will only only keep the story alive. just fall on your sword and say you are a horrible human being and an embarrassment to all.

hopefully all the moralizing people will get their pound of Hinch flesh this year, and then we will hear less and less of this in 2022 and beyond

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I'm encouraged by the hiring of Hinch. To me he is the type of hire made by a team expecting to be on the rise, and soon. I'm guessing that the reality of his involvement (or lack) in the sign stealing is known by those in baseball circles, so I am not overly concerned about that. Of course, if he flames out, the second-guessers will have all sorts of ammo and Avilia will be up a creek.

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32 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Nailed it

Hey, what can I say? That’s what can happen when you have a little fun and put yourself out there. And when you don’t, I guess you can have your fun hammering other people for being wrong.

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2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

And Hinch went and took a bat and smashed a monitor and yelled at the players but it didn't matter.  Yelling at guys doesn't mean you are controlling them.    I know this wasn't the era, but if this was the era when Bonds was taking roids, do you think he would've stopped if Leyland yelled at him and told him not to?   

No man should have control over another unless they are in prison.

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54 minutes ago, Casimir said:

The Kenny Rogers pine tar thing is not like the trash cans.  Its been mentioned on broadcasts and acknowledged elsewhere that batters are fine with pitchers using pine tar in colder weather so pitchers have better control of the baseball and they don't have a mid 90s (mid 80s for Rogers) fastball at the head.  It was washed off after an inning.  It didn't persist after warning after warning.

th?id=OIP.L29j6X4Wlqcrwg_Hw2IumwAAAA&pid  

Best image I could find.  It was clearly obvious in the 1st.  My memory is that it was still there in the 2nd inning, but definitely not as obvious.  If there are better images out there of the 2nd inning, I'd love to see it.

Don't forget the brim of the hat

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2 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Don't forget the brim of the hat

Its funny, I was listening to a Dan Patrick interview of Johnny Bench from yesterday while Randy & I were chatting.  I would think a lot of people view Bench as some kind of moral figure within the game of baseball, at least well respected.  Anyway, he was talking about catching pitchers that "loaded up".  Meaning, guys that were cutting baseballs, guys that were adding foreign substances, guys that were doing things that were against the written rules but unwrittenly acceptable.

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7 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Its funny, I was listening to a Dan Patrick interview of Johnny Bench from yesterday while Randy & I were chatting.  I would think a lot of people view Bench as some kind of moral figure within the game of baseball, at least well respected.  Anyway, he was talking about catching pitchers that "loaded up".  Meaning, guys that were cutting baseballs, guys that were adding foreign substances, guys that were doing things that were against the written rules but unwrittenly acceptable.

Did anyone hear the story Smoltz told in one of the WS games about a ball that was hit foul against the stands coming back to him with a big scuff on it and how pretty much all the fielders understood Smoltz wanted that ball to stay in play as long as possible, but Chipper Jones, who was a rookie at 3b the time, fielded a foul grounder and tossed the ball in the stands. Smoltz said he almost took Chipper's head off for it.

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3 hours ago, Casimir said:

jim-leyland-barry-bonds-1991-spring-spat

he sure stopped kenny rogers from cheating in the 2006 playoffs.  really put his foot down there.

and he sure didnt give any leeway to any guys who had been rumored to be juicing like gary sheffield.  none at all.

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