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Who will be the next Tigers manager?

Who will be the next Tigers manager  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will be the next Tiger Manager?

    • Alex Cora
      0
    • Fredi Gonzalez
      2
    • A.J. Hinch
      19
    • Don Kelly
      2
    • George Lombard
      5
    • Lloyd McClendon
      3
    • Phil Nevin
      1
    • Mike Rabelo
      0
    • Marcus Thames
      1
    • Someone Else
      7


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1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

Wonder who Hinch’s coaches will be?  Might need to build a new staff, since many of his guys are still in Houston.  

If he could bring Altuve and Bregman and Springer to actually play then maybe he would have some value.

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I'm getting more pissed off by the minute.  I like the game threads, and now next year, every game, someone will be posting comments about how Hinch isn't so smart without garbage cans to beat on, and it will be very tiresome.

Full disclosure, I will be the one who is making the garbage can comments.

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1 hour ago, T&P_Fan said:

The tigers are beginning the upswing of the rebuild.  This should be a time to enjoy the progress.  Hard to do that with hinch at the helm.

I’m also surprised by the verlander mentions above in regards to coming back to Detroit.  JV spent years bashing every steroid user, than goes to a team who systematically cheats the game and doesn’t say **** because they were winning.  Showed he was grandstanding, without principle. 

speaking of grandstanding...

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tigers are giving a talented, young manager a second chance and a shot at redemption.  i have zero problem with that.

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

tigers are giving a talented, young manager a second chance and a shot at redemption.  i have zero problem with that.

 Not to be argumentative, but I just don't exactly know what a "talented manager" is.  I don't think I've ever seen one.  The people who are proclaimed to be good managers always, always have the best players.  All they have to do is manage the pitching staff and control the clubhouse.  That's it, that's the entire job.  I don't see anything on Hinch's resume to suggest that he can perform either task at above a replacement level.

If you listen to the players, then occasional!y there will be a manager who is praised as being far superior to their peers and there are 2 examples in the 21st century, Jimmy Leyland and Terry Francona.

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30 minutes ago, Charles Liston said:

 Not to be argumentative, but I just don't exactly know what a "talented manager" is.  I don't think I've ever seen one.  The people who are proclaimed to be good managers always, always have the best players.  All they have to do is manage the pitching staff and control the clubhouse.  That's it, that's the entire job.  I don't see anything on Hinch's resume to suggest that he can perform either task at above a replacement level.

If you listen to the players, then occasional!y there will be a manager who is praised as being far superior to their peers and there are 2 examples in the 21st century, Jimmy Leyland and Terry Francona.

well if you dont know what it is, you should just take my word for it.  :)

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I don't fault Hinch for what happened in Houston, I mean what exactly was he supposed to do about it?  He is on video being shown multiple times smashing monitors that players were using to steal signs, he benched players and from all accounts was against the whole thing.  What was he supposed to do,  throw his entire team under the bus?   I mean I guess he could have came out to the media but then no player would ever want to play for him again for betraying their trust.   He told the players he was against it and they still did it except they became more discreet about it around him.  Bottom line If the Front Office and players are **** bent on doing something there is nothing a manager can do.  

 

 

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6 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

Couldn't agree more.  I hate this hire.  I wouldn't do that to my brand if I owned the team.  Either he is a cheat, or he isn't but he's so weak that he couldn't prevent it.  The manager has 2 jobs - run the pitching staff, and control the clubhouse.  It seems like we already know that he can't control the clubhouse.  And what is the value of a manager anyway, is it plus or minus 4 wins?  He isn't worth the aggravation.

Such a good post.  He couldn't control the clubhouse.  How does this team go about demoting Cabrera in the lineup when it comes time to?

And let's go ahead and add that Hinch won't measure up to the standards that will be placed on him because the Tigers don't have the talent that the Astros did when Hinch took over there.

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3 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Such a good post.  He couldn't control the clubhouse.  How does this team go about demoting Cabrera in the lineup when it comes time to?

And let's go ahead and add that Hinch won't measure up to the standards that will be placed on him because the Tigers don't have the talent that the Astros did when Hinch took over there.

No manager can control a clubhouse when the players have the front office on their side like the Astros did.  No matter who the manager is, if the GM and owner wants Cabrera in the lineup, guess what?  He's going to be in the lineup.  And that was essentially the situation that Hinch was in, they all wanted to steal signs cause they believed that there was nothing wrong with it, Hinch disagreed but guess what, them and the players are the ones with the power and it will always be that way.    

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1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

No manager can control a clubhouse when the players have the front office on their side like the Astros did.  No matter who the manager is, if the GM and owner wants Cabrera in the lineup, guess what?  He's going to be in the lineup.  And that was essentially the situation that Hinch was in, they all wanted to steal signs cause they believed that there was nothing wrong with it, Hinch disagreed but guess what, them and the players are the ones with the power and it will always be that way.    

jim-leyland-barry-bonds-1991-spring-spat

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If the players have all of the power, if it is the players that win the game, then why bring in someone as radioactive as Hinch?  It sounds to be more risk than reward.

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Just now, Casimir said:

jim-leyland-barry-bonds-1991-spring-spat

And Hinch went and took a bat and smashed a monitor and yelled at the players but it didn't matter.  Yelling at guys doesn't mean you are controlling them.    I know this wasn't the era, but if this was the era when Bonds was taking roids, do you think he would've stopped if Leyland yelled at him and told him not to?   

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2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

And Hinch went and took a bat and smashed a monitor and yelled at the players but it didn't matter.  Yelling at guys doesn't mean you are controlling them.    I know this wasn't the era, but if this was the era when Bonds was taking roids, do you think he would've stopped if Leyland yelled at him and told him not to?   

I agree with you that yelling at guys isn't necessarily the way to control a clubhouse.  That image just kind of popped into my mind.  Well, the video did, but I figured it should be linked.  Gotta think of the kids.

That said, what elevates Hinch above a guy like Fredi Gonzalez?

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3 minutes ago, Casimir said:

If the players have all of the power, if it is the players that win the game, then why bring in someone as radioactive as Hinch?  It sounds to be more risk than reward.

Because situations like what happened in Houston are an outlier,  the vast majority of times things like that don't come up and are something managers don't have to deal with.  By all accounts the players liked and respected Hinch, but he isn't the one that signs their paychecks.  When you get an edict from people above him you are going to follow that, especially if it actually helps your game, helps your team win and your teammates are behind it as well.   

And as far as his actual managerial skills, his first year he led a young Astros team(not much different than our own) to 86 wins, last year they won 107 meanwhile this year they pro rated to win under 80.  Yes they lost Cole and Verlander but that doesn't make up for the entire difference.   

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Just now, RandyMarsh said:

Because situations like what happened in Houston are an outlier,  the vast majority of times things like that don't come up and are something managers don't have to deal with.  By all accounts the players liked and respected Hinch, but he isn't the one that signs their paychecks.  When you get an edict from people above him you are going to follow that, especially if it actually helps your game, helps your team win and your teammates are behind it as well.   

And as far as his actual managerial skills, his first year he led a young Astros team(not much different than our own) to 86 wins, last year they won 107 meanwhile this year they pro rated to win under 80.  Yes they lost Cole and Verlander but that doesn't make up for the entire difference.   

I agree with you that the Houston situation was an outlier.  It sounds like it is anyway.

But if the players liked and respected Hinch, why did they persist?  It doesn't sound to me like they establish a culture and practice which is contradictory to what Hinch's expectations are and that equals respect.

And I think it remains to be seen if the Tigers are on a trajectory similar to what the Astros were on.  We certainly hope that is the case.  But I'm not ready to draw that parallel, neither in aggregate, nor in groupings of players.  The Astros' success was young position player talent augmented by veteran pitching.  The Tigers are going primarily with young pitching along with a few young bats.

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1 minute ago, Casimir said:

I agree with you that the Houston situation was an outlier.  It sounds like it is anyway.

But if the players liked and respected Hinch, why did they persist?  It doesn't sound to me like they establish a culture and practice which is contradictory to what Hinch's expectations are and that equals respect.

And I think it remains to be seen if the Tigers are on a trajectory similar to what the Astros were on.  We certainly hope that is the case.  But I'm not ready to draw that parallel, neither in aggregate, nor in groupings of players.  The Astros' success was young position player talent augmented by veteran pitching.  The Tigers are going primarily with young pitching along with a few young bats.

I meant the 2015 Astros weren't much different than our team, not necessarily that our franchise is on that parallel.   The 2014 Astros won 59 games, then Hinch came in and they won 86.   That team going into 2015 was said to be a few years away from competing yet they competed the first year Hinch got there, that's why I said it was similar to ours.   Of course the Astros took the next step by making a series of great trades most notably the Cole and Verlander one, so it remains to be seen whether we will do something like that.  

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22 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I meant the 2015 Astros weren't much different than our team, not necessarily that our franchise is on that parallel.   The 2014 Astros won 59 games, then Hinch came in and they won 86.   That team going into 2015 was said to be a few years away from competing yet they competed the first year Hinch got there, that's why I said it was similar to ours.   Of course the Astros took the next step by making a series of great trades most notably the Cole and Verlander one, so it remains to be seen whether we will do something like that.  

I guess I disagree that the 2015 Astros weren't much different than the Tigers.  I don't know that the current Tigers are even at the level of the 2014 Astros.

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The 2014 Astros were a 96 OPS+ and 94 ERA+ team.  They increased to 107 OPS+ and 110 ERA+ in 2015.  That ain't all Hinch's handiwork.

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The.more I read from the anti-Hinchers, the more I like prospects of us hiring him.  It would be boring to get a Thames or Fasano.  I want controversy, with battle lines drawn.  

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2 minutes ago, Casimir said:

The 2014 Astros were a 96 OPS+ and 94 ERA+ team.  They increased to 107 OPS+ and 110 ERA+ in 2015.  That ain't all Hinch's handiwork.

I think you're splitting hairs.  The Astros were coming off a 59 win season(The Tigers probably would've been a few games better) were projected to win in the 70s in 2015 due to their young talent.  The Tigers have a ton of young talent and may not be projected to win in the 70s but they should be close.  Basically the premise of my post was that they were seen as two teams that had great farm systems but were a couple years away from really competing, except the Astros competed the first year that Hinch got there.   Perhaps he can do the same for the Tigers?  

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Just now, RandyMarsh said:

I think you're splitting hairs.  The Astros were coming off a 59 win season(The Tigers probably would've been a few games better) were projected to win in the 70s in 2015 due to their young talent.  The Tigers have a ton of young talent and may not be projected to win in the 70s but they should be close.  Basically the premise of my post was that they were seen as two teams that had great farm systems but were a couple years away from really competing, except the Astros competed the first year that Hinch got there.   Perhaps he can do the same for the Tigers?  

I can see that the Tigers are considered to have a top heavy farm system, which I guess is better than no farm system.  Were the Astros considered top heavy as well or were they considered to have some balance in there as well?

So, was the Astros' success due to Hinch?  Was it due to its farm system and development?  It just seems like Hinch is being perceived a little too much as the straw to stir the drink, so to speak, and maybe his true managerial talent is somewhere in between the his Astros' record and his Diamondbacks' record.

And again, if he was so well respected as a manager, why did his clubhouse ignore him about the trash cans?

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9 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

The.more I read from the anti-Hinchers, the more I like prospects of us hiring him.  It would be boring to get a Thames or Fasano.  I want controversy, with battle lines drawn.  

They could hire Urban Meyer.  That'd spark up the controversy.

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8 minutes ago, Casimir said:

I can see that the Tigers are considered to have a top heavy farm system, which I guess is better than no farm system.  Were the Astros considered top heavy as well or were they considered to have some balance in there as well?

So, was the Astros' success due to Hinch?  Was it due to its farm system and development?  It just seems like Hinch is being perceived a little too much as the straw to stir the drink, so to speak, and maybe his true managerial talent is somewhere in between the his Astros' record and his Diamondbacks' record.

And again, if he was so well respected as a manager, why did his clubhouse ignore him about the trash cans?

We went over this, it's because players will always side with other players and do what they think is best for their career...particularly when upper management is behind it.   

If Dusty Baker told Bonds to not use roids in the late 90s or early 2000s(whenever he supposedly did and when they were illegal in baseball) do you think Bonds would have listened?   I sincerely doubt it cause the roids were potentially making him millions of dollars.   Does that mean he didn't respect Dusty?  No, but he was doing what he thought was best for his career and team.  Same situation here. 

Players thought this would help them perform better, which in turn make them more money and win more games so they did it regardless of if they respected the manager or not.   The fact that they took extra steps to hide it after Hinch called them out about it shows that they atleast had some respect for his authority though.  

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Also if we're going to be the morale police, didn't Kenny Rogers get caught cheating for us in the World Series?  You mean to tell me that the opposing team and cameramen could pick up on it but our own manager couldn't?  Obviously Leyland knew about it as did the rest of the team, should they be condemned forever for allowing a player to cheat in a World Series game?   

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